Shamrock Rovers v Liverpool

Usually have a lot of time for Sadlier, he tends to tell it like it is but I think this article is a bit simplistic. While he is right about how ridiculous it is the way loi fans sneer at and insult "barstoolers" as if that is ever going to help things, I don't think he gives any balance to it at all. Think a lot of the reason Loi fans tend to do that is for the simple fact that they are used to getting abuse from people who support British teams about the league, it works both ways.

At times a LOI fan with a chip on their shoulder abusing someone for not supporting their local club can be just as irritating as someone in a Liverpool or United Jersey singing in an English accent.

People need to realise that in order for the League to ever get more popular it is up to people involved in it to attract people to it, not try and abuse and guilt them into it.

"42000 morons" says Dermot Keely.

:)

Say it like it is Dermot.

Tell it like it is, Richie. Merge all the Dublin clubs and watch the fans flock to the gates.

Summer Soccer is the answer according to Stuey Byrne. Sweet good merciful Jebus.

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Originally Posted by Bosco

Usually have a lot of time for Sadlier, he tends to tell it like it is but I think this article is a bit simplistic. While he is right about how ridiculous it is the way loi fans sneer at and insult "barstoolers" as if that is ever going to help things, I don't think he gives any balance to it at all. Think a lot of the reason Loi fans tend to do that is for the simple fact that they are used to getting abuse from people who support British teams about the league, it works both ways.

At times a LOI fan with a chip on their shoulder abusing someone for not supporting their local club can be just as irritating as someone in a Liverpool or United Jersey singing in an English accent.

People need to realise that in order for the League to ever get more popular it is up to people involved in it to attract people to it, not try and abuse and guilt them into it.

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Its very normal for fans to mock people who tend to support from the comfort of their own home or in the bar, thats what fans do!:confused:
Its not just an irish thing. When Chelsea came to town I met two fans from basel who went to the game supporting the English team over their home team!

I got caught in traffic after this match. Thousands of people passed me and I said to myself "I wish I could see some Shamrock Rovers supporters." I honestly never thought I would say those words! Only 4 Rovers supporters passed me amongst maybe 4-5k people that passed me or that I passed.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Its very normal for fans to mock people who tend to support from the comfort of their own home or in the bar, thats what fans do!:confused:
Its not just an irish thing. When Chelsea came to town I met two fans from basel who went to the game supporting the English team over their home team!

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The point was about mocking fans in Ireland in general,do you think mocking people who have pretty much no interest in our league for not going to games suddenly makes them want to change what they are doing and attend games with the same fans that are mocking them?Particularly when they are in the majority.

The very fact that the fans in Basel were mocked would suggest that they are in the minority, unlike here so that's not really relevant.

I was at the game on Wednesday, and the general feeling afterwards was one of feeling rather grubby to be honest.

Yes, it was good business by the Rovers board to get the game organised in the first place and the club made good money, but all the hoops i spoke to on Saturday found the whole experience a rather frustrating one as the liverpool consumers around us were without exceptions utterly clueless about what happens at a "loive" game.

on the subject mentioned by sadlier - the Only way to attract new fans to the league is through success,and then continued success.
irish people are sheep and will follow the first successfull shepard ( karl !)they see.

A really clever fella Keely.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I think he makes some very constructive points, and he did get the name of the league right at least. :)



It's simply all their fault... Isn't that kind of convenient? People are free to be interested in different things, so no point blaming others if they don't want to associate with the league. It's a matter of those already involved (including the FAI) accepting responsibility and taking ownership. If the supposed laziness and lack of imagination of the Irish public truly concerns you, try to do something to captivate their interest. Convince them its worth their investment. Shirking responsibility and playing the victim card also happen to be child-like. As Sadlier highlights, it's unfortunate that even when clubs did have more money rolling around, rather than putting it towards long-term investment and sustainable development, short-sightedness saw them throw it at players in the form of higher wages.

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What does the 'FAI accepting ownership and taking responsibility' mean in practical terms? How would 'long-term investment and sustainable development' translate into crowds of ten thousand people at LOI games? All very vague, I'm afraid. Look- it's as clear as day: the reason people don't support the League of Ireland is lack of imagination and a child-like outlook:'I support Man United because they're big and successful and lots of other people do too'. I used to support Leeds United for those very reasons - but that's when I was a child.
I don't think anything can be done about all this, by the way. There is no solution, barring a complete change in mindset - and that's not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

What does the 'FAI accepting ownership and taking responsibility' mean in practical terms?

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Let's start off with a plan. A strategic approach to the next five years for the league. Set down where we're at, what can be improved and how each element involved must act to get there.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

How would 'long-term investment and sustainable development' translate into crowds of ten thousand people at LOI games?

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10000 people at games is currently unrealistic- there isn't even a ground that holds that currently. But say an average increase in crowds of 50% over 5 years (or whatever figure, this is just an example)- that would make a difference. How do we get there? Well we sure as feck won't without a plan. Perhaps as the FAI's financial position improves there will be more money available to help clubs along. But it all needs to be worked out properly.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

Look- it's as clear as day: the reason people don't support the League of Ireland is lack of imagination and a child-like outlook:'I support Man United because they're big and successful and lots of other people do too'. I used to support Leeds United for those very reasons - but that's when I was a child.
I don't think anything can be done about all this, by the way. There is no solution, barring a complete change in mindset - and that's not going to happen.

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People do whatever they feel like doing. They don't owe us anything. We may not like their choices but they're their choices to make. The league/ clubs need to find a way to get the message across that they offer something that the premiership or SPL cannot- community, belonging, an attachment to place, atmosphere and involvement, asterisks, Roddy fecking Collins. Whatever- we DO have strengths as well as weaknesses and progress can be made. But without some leadership and planning within the league and within the FAI in general we're going to stagnate as a league.

If 42.000 people want to give money to a LOI club for watching some clubs reserves then I have no problem with that.
I know I would prefer if it was my own club but if its money to the LOI then fair enough.
Personally I don't give a rat's who they support.
Maybe they're all relatives of this clown :confused:

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/.../hypocrite.jpg

Is there anything to be said for another mass?

My say;

https://storify.com/seidodge/my-moan...-v-bartoolers/

Ireland is a country with very few genuine hardcore supporters. Fair enough, there are big numbers who scour the net for Liverpool and Man Utd transfer news on a daily basis 365 days of the year, quantifying this as living and breathing the club from the comfort of their sofa, but they are missing out on a key component of the experience of being a fan.

There are many Liverpool/Man Utd fans or indeed fans of other UK clubs who travel over week in week out and this is admirable indeed, they are in attendance come rain or shine.

Pardon me if I sound like i'm on my high horse when saying all of this but I stand by it when I say it, we as a culture are consumers in the absolute extreme when it comes to sport. Loyalty, reaction to set backs, Long term vision (all paramount qualities of a "SUPPORTER") simply are not part of your average Irish fans make up.

I won't even mention the LOI for fear of opening a can of worms, you only need to look at our own international side. "best fans in the world" when theres an international tournament to go away and drink at. The vast majority of whom wont go and watch them in the aviva again because the outlook is bleak. This is the attitude of a consumer, not a supporter. And if you think this is ok, then you are accepting that its behaviour tantamount to switching over to a different tv show because the one you used to watch got a little boring.

Keeley wouldn't be the most articulate in fairness, but he wasn't far off the mark. The minority who speak up about this are passed off as being "bitter LOI fans".

Fair enough, undoubtedly i'll have it thrown at me- "who are you to tell me who i can and cannot support?"

All i'm saying is that theres a difference between being a fan who watches on TV and simply switches off and stops watching when its not to their liking, and a fan who experiences live football week in week out supporting his side (be it in Ireland or the UK) regardless of the results. And the fact that the former is the majority means that more often than not they see the rest as a bitter minority who stick their oar in and put them on a guilt trip when they are trying to enjoy the footy on their sofa.

I actually think it goes deeper though. The true test is if you had an Irish side in the EPL for example. Would Irish fans turn their back on them should they be relegated to the championship or if they were a relegation threatened outfit year in year out? You bet ya they would.

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Originally Posted by Bosco

The point was about mocking fans in Ireland in general,do you think mocking people who have pretty much no interest in our league for not going to games suddenly makes them want to change what they are doing and attend games with the same fans that are mocking them?Particularly when they are in the majority.

The very fact that the fans in Basel were mocked would suggest that they are in the minority, unlike here so that's not really relevant.

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I dont give a flying feck what they do, I go to games and thats good enough for me.
As mentioned by others, the irish fans are the worlds best event junkies.

Who actually sneers at barstoolers, to their face at least, in real life? Can't say I've ever really heard anyone getting stick - Sadlier probably just extrapolated from the internet and used it as a stick to beat LoI fans. Does he even know any LoI supporters? He's just another ex-pro who thought he'd waltz into the LoI and revolutionise it - a modern day Dunphy and Giles.

As LoI fan you really can't win though. If you say you wish that more fans would come rather than support British clubs, you're being bitter. If you have the attitude it's their loss, you get accused of wanting to keep it exclusive (even though the two positions aren't mutually exclusive).

I actually think the issue is much deeper than just the LoI. There's no tradition here of going to games in any sport week in week out, over a full season. The GAA is always pointed at, but the reality it's a handful of games a season for each county or club, less again that get really big crowds. The actual level of support over a season is, imo, comparable to LoI. Rugby is probably the nearest "rival" we have that goes over a full season, but look at how Munster crowds have dropped off now they're only quite good rather than very good, or compare Leinsters tickets sold to how many are actually in the RDS.

Good piece by Strongbow10 and agree fully with Macy as regards Irish people going to games on regular basis. I like GAA and go to a lot of games as I come from a county who are reasonably strong in both codes, and also have good club sides. Yet the crowds at league games are not that much greater than the top LoI sides Shamrock R, Sligo and Cork, for the footballers, the hurlers do a bit better. A book came out recently; The Economics of the GAA I think its called, where someone deeply involved in Cork GAA stated that their league attendances are also on a par with the LoI.

I was at the football league finals in Croke Park a few weeks ago as a neutral, where the Dubs had 20-25k fans supporting them. But a few sitting behind me seemed unsure of the rules of the game, and also did not seem to know some of the names of the players who were playing for their team. This is not unique to Dublin I may say, but they attract the biggest number of bandwagon fans, and they only problem I have with it is when it makes it so difficult to get a ticket when your county gets to an All-Ireland final. I lived in England for a few years and I agree we simply don't have the same culture of going to games here in Ireland. Interesting observation here on what crowds would an English league team playing out of Dublin would get. My own immediate response would be that the Dublin Dons would go close to filling the 50k capacity stadium all season and that the backers were on to a winner. But thinking about it, what crowd would a team in a relegation battle, managed by an Italian and made up of mostly African and South American players, really attract?

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Originally Posted by Bosco

The point was about mocking fans in Ireland in general,do you think mocking people who have pretty much no interest in our league for not going to games suddenly makes them want to change what they are doing and attend games with the same fans that are mocking them?Particularly when they are in the majority.

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Firstly, it's far more likely that a LOI fan will be mocked for being a LOI fan than anything else.

Secondly, in your situation above, the people being mocked already have 'pretty much no interest' in the league. Will mocking them make them suddenly want to go to games? Of course not. But, they're not going to go to games anyway. The argument that "I don't go to LOI games because of the attitude of LOI fans (even though I've never been anyway and never had any interest in the LOI)" is a weak excuse put forward, for the most part, by people who would never go to LOI anyway.

Don't get me wrong - I don't agree with mocking or otherwise abusing/criticising people for not being LOI fans, but both the prevalence and impact of the behaviour are hugely overstated.