I suppose the experience of trying to break down 10 men is a useful exercise in itself. You have to adapt and take what you can from the game.
I suppose the experience of trying to break down 10 men is a useful exercise in itself. You have to adapt and take what you can from the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I don't know, I thought they looked pretty poor indeed I was feeling a bit sorry for them towards the end.
But it is hard to make an assessment from it, I didn't think we look particularly great either despite winning 4-0.
Maybe the lack of an atmosphere at the ground helped that.
Having said that, they rarely lose by more than one goal, Spain only beat them 1-0 would you believe!!! (and that was just the Euro's).
Let's not forget the backup keeper looked like he had just woken up from a siesta, possibly in a hayfield.
You have to view it in the context that we often have trouble putting away relatively minor teams - we only beat them 2-1 in our two previous fixtures. We will come up against teams who will just look to defend constantly, even if they have a man sent off, and we found a way to do that on Sunday. Like I said, you adapt to the circumstances and take the lessons where you can. It's not the referee's job to give us a good game and he had to send the guy off.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
I am sure however Trap would have preferred to play against 11 though, I certainly would have were I manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Of course, but you make the best of what you've got, which is why I think Trap was right to send Robbie on at half time. Put out a similar side to what will face the Faroes and see how they break down a stubborn and reluctant defence.
Just been looking at some of the match in better quality than I had on the stream.
I think maybe Hoolahan helped give a more attack minded midfield which pressed the opposition more in the centre as opposed
to otherwise sitting back more. That I think lead to the mistake for the sending off. But generally on the piece I have just been watching
the whole team seemed to be working well together to close down the opposition, but then again it's a bit easier to do that
against teams such as Georgia. I guess a 10 man Georgia is a pretty good warm up for the Faroes though.
The match against Spain on the 11th June will be a far more reveal test of where we stand in world football!!
He wasn't sent off for it being a dangerous tackle though.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
I'm not sure the keeper could have been sure that the ball had been knocked too far (if indeed it had). He came outside the box in a one-on-one situation, the ball was knocked past him and he just moved into Long's way. Really cynical, and a red card all day long for me.Quote:
Worse still there was no goal scoring opportunity so in that respect the ref was wrong to send him off (if my understanding of the rule is correct, which is unlikely).
Yes, a red card all day Long even if Long's touch was about as elegant as mine. There is a good case to be made for it being only a yellow because it was a friendly. Plenty of refs are lenient in that type of game.
The two footed tackle on the touchline was a shocker and should have been a red regardless of the circumstances.
Certainly the goalie did everything to make it look like a red card offence but there was no way Long was going to get that ball. The remotest of goal scoring opportunities was denied. There was plenty of doubt existing for the ref, to just show a yellow.
Just something to consider; the rule in question refers to the denial of an "obvious goalscoring opportunity" as being an offence punishable by a red card rather than the denial of a certain goal.
But there was no goal scoring opportunity because all day Long Long had hit that ball too Long ;)
So if that is the rule then the goal keepers intent does not seem to matter, the keeper may have intended to deny him
a goal scoring opportunity but if they was never one there in the first place it should only be a yellow.
I would not see the tackle as particularly dangerous although these days refs seem to treat it as a none contact sport,
indeed you don't even have to make contact to get sent off!!! (as I understand it)
From whose viewpoint though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Invincible
From the ref's, or the TV's, viewpoint, yeah, it looked like Long wasn't going to get to that ball.
Could the keeper know that though? If he'd known, surely he wouldn't have moved into Long's path? With his back to the ball, would he know how far it had been knocked ahead?
FWIW, I don't mind the idea of reducing non-dangerous red cards (like this) to yellows for friendlies. But I don't think there's any point blaming the ref for following the rules; it's what he's there to do.
Is there any FIFA guidance on refereeing friendly games?
But it's already been pointed out to you that the red wasn't for dangerous play. It wasn't a dangerous tackle; it was a cynical one, and that's what the red was for. Red cards are issued for more than just dangerous play.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Don't know where else to put this but nice interview with Richard Keogh. Seems like a really nice guy. Always refreshing to read this stuff.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...reveals-keogh/
id say the ball was almost out of play before long hit the ground from the GK taking him down. nowhere near a clear goalscoring opportunity so a yellow card offence in my book. also, from where i was sitting right in line with the incident in the upper east stand I think Long went looking for the GK
Still in by a good ten yards.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
I don't think the video backs this up. It's the keeper who changes direction.Quote:
I think Long went looking for the GK
Here are the criteria to assist a referee in deciding when to penalise for the denial of an obvious goal-scoring opportunity:
- The direction of the play.
- The location of the foul.
- The proximity of the player to the ball.
- The probability of controlling the ball.
- The location and number of opponents.
- The opportunity for the attempt on goal.
I found these on page 18 of the following document on 'Law 12: Fouls and Misconduct (Part 2 - Misconduct)': http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afde...unduct_557.pdf
Not entirely sure if that is the most up-to-date copy of that document available, mind. It does have '2012' in the URL but the document itself also highlights FIFA's momentous 100th anniversary at the bottom-left of each of its pages. That was in 2004.
Shane Long should have been sent off so. His first touch denied him an obvious goalscoring opportunity!Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Thanks for that. So it seems this case met every criterion with the arguable exception of the fourth one (if we allow the third is met by virtue of Long being in possession at the time).Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Just comes down to whether Long would have reached the ball or not. Ref must have decided he would have.
When the tackle was made it looked all over a red card, instinctively any ref would be blowing a whistle and after that (probably) considering why he shouldn't give a red card.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I don't think it matters what the intention of the goalie was, what he knew or didn't know. He deliberately brought down Long outside the box, but that's not a red card offence in itself.Quote:
Could the keeper know that though? If he'd known, surely he wouldn't have moved into Long's path? With his back to the ball, would he know how far it had been knocked ahead?
If one could be so certain that the ref gave the red card for a 'cynical' tackle then it was wrong decision by the ref.Quote:
FWIW, I don't mind the idea of reducing non-dangerous red cards (like this) to yellows for friendlies. But I don't think there's any point blaming the ref for following the rules; it's what he's there to do.
Is there any FIFA guidance on refereeing friendly games?
But it's already been pointed out to you that the red wasn't for dangerous play. It wasn't a dangerous tackle; it was a cynical one, and that's what the red was for. Red cards are issued for more than just dangerous play
The only valid justification a ref could use for the red card, was denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity.
On refs in friendlies, we have plenty of precedents of refs exercising obvious and blatant leniency in friendlies.