Or more likely - given that he's judged on on-pitch performances (not the club's financial performance), and given the clear correlation between money and success in football, he'd just smile, take the money and go shopping.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
If people want football managers to develop some sort of financial awareness/concern/acumen, then make it one of the criteria on which they're judged/rewarded. Hey presto - instant fiscal probity from footballing people.
You'd probably be right. But the question we're addressing is who's responsible. And when it comes to financial decisions the buck must always stop with the Board.
While I agree with what you're saying Steve, it should also be remembered that a manager can generally get a club into serious bother quicker than anyone else. If a club backs a manager who then seriously under performs (i.e. finishes well below where the budget would/should place him) then any club will struggle. There will always be an element of gambling to football- and slashing the budget can in some cases make things worse by seeing revenues drop more than the outgoings do.
That does not justify the madness that occurred at many clubs including Harps. Football may always be a gamble, but LOI clubs tend to put the mortgage on the first horsey that catches their eye. The only clubs that don't really have to gamble are those with income significantly higher than the clubs around them- but even there an exceptionally bad period on the pitch will hurt them.
The PFAI express concern at the goings on at Dalymount. Mr McGuinness does not seem to realise that (relative) on field success != income.
There's slightly more in the Indo.
The Sun and Star today have just one page on the LOI and in both cases its all about Bohs.Im sick of reading about them to be honest there are a lot of good news story and after Monaghan's great win they should have got some decent coverage as also should Sligo.
There are a majority of clubs in the country experiencing severe financial troubles but Bohs are the only show in town.
The majority of the clubs in the country aren't the champions, and I'd bet that their combined debts don't amount to Bohs.Quote:
Originally Posted by gufct
Its hardly a shock that the bigger clubs get more press, is it?
There's two elements to what you've said there. The first is about a manager not delivering the results expected, which they're paid to do. So it would be perfectly right to blame them for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
But your second bit then directly links expected on-picth performances to budgets, which again is something a Board itself is the one who decides to do (or not do so, as would be more appropriate). So the manager can't be blamed for that.
It would be like a gambler blaming a horse for him losing money he couldn't afford to lose. The real responsibility rests with the idot who was spunking money he didn't have on horses. It's easy to see whay clubs bank on a certain level of performance etc, but given the wide variety of variables in the game of football - particularly in a financially poor league like ours - then any Board who banks on success that is never guaranteed shouldn't look beyond themselves for the blame.
Sorry- should have made it clear that the bit about football being a gamble wasn't really about managers any more, just making the point that a club could make fairly reasonable projections and still find themselves in trouble if they fall apart on the field or if other revenues collapse for some reason.
I guess the ideal would be for everyone to budget for their season being a total washout, but while other clubs are not doing so the one that does may be damaging themselves more than if they had not. Until licensing/the SCP becomes more effective and guarantees a fairly even level of budgeting across clubs we will not reached the promised land- and even when we do there will still be the odd exceptional case.
Not that any of that for a second justifies the madness in the league in recent years, or moves a significant amount of the blame on to managers. Boards will always have ultimate responsibility for the well-being of their clubs.
Well said. Last night, 2 sides not favoured to reach the final did. That is a story in itself. Also, Monaghan reached their first ever final. There should be a full page spread on that alone. Give the county a lift. Build it up. But no, the media always focus on negative stories in the LOI.Quote:
Originally Posted by gufct
All clubs should budget for this scenario. Prize money is a bonus, and should either go towards, off-field stuff, or else go in to the following years budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Except that gate income and even fundraising will be negatively hit by an unexpectedly terrible season.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
I firmly believe that clubs should budget on a modest percentage of the previous years turnover. If you have a good season, followed by a bad season, then budgets should be slashed for the following season. To compensate for the shortfall.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
This business of "we think we can win the league, so that's what we will budget for" is madness.
What Mr A is talking about is this: say you finished 4th in the league last year, so this year you set your expenditure to finish 7th. Low and behold, your slashed wage bill and weakened team finishes 9th (maybe the manager is to blame, maybe you just had a bit of bad luck), your crowds have halved and your carefully conservative budget is in ruins. Something like this effect turned Harps' troubles into a crisis a couple of years ago.
This is what happens when all of the clubs are competing in such a cut-throat manner. This is why licensing being of marginal effectiveness is such a problem for the league.
Yeah, get what you are saying John83, I think in this scenario that clubs should be working harder to get punters in the gate. Depending on results to draw crowds is not enough. Then again, you could argue that we are a nation of glory hunters.
This is the equivalent of saying Doncasters good start to The Championship season should get more coverage in Britain than Liverpools financial problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
It's not the job of the national media to give anyone a lift.
Not really, Its the equivalent of Doncaster getting to the league cup finalQuote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
And Liverpool would still get 6500 times the media coverage in England.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartySaint
This is all assuming of course that the Nintendo Trophy here has the same amount of public interest in it as the League Cup has in England.
Which it doesn't.
Wexford and Waterford have both made the league cup final in recent years, its rated slightly above the LSC by most clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartySaint
If the sport was GAA then it would be a completely different story. They'd concentrate on the on-field stuff before the off-field stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Sigh.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
The Media concentrate on what the public are interested in.
The reason you will hear more about say the Dublin footballers good run than you will about say some ref being put into the boot of a car in South Armagh isn't because of some pro GAA, anti League of Ireland conspiracy, it's because the Dubs are the bigger story.
apologies if already posted.Quote:
BOHEMIANS' players are playing for their livelihoods between now and the end of the season and are now under 'massive pressure' to win the league, according to PFAI chief Stephen McGuinness.
The players' union general secretary yesterday stated his belief that professional football at the Phibsboro-based club now hinges on whether or not they win the league, and maybe even the FAI Cup, this season.
"I think a lot is hinging on winning the league, that's my own opinion. I think everything is based on winning the league and possibly winning the cup as well, so there's a lot of pressure," said McGuinness.
"I think it's showing in their performances now, they now know that if they don't win the league this year that they probably will have to go part-time, and the contracts that they currently have -- the club's going to come and look to renegotiate. That's a massive pressure -- not only have you got the pressure of trying to win football games and the crowd being on your case, you've got your livelihood on the line too."
McGuinness also revealed he has received assurances from the FAI that financially stricken Bohs had budgeted for 2010 based on the possibility of finishing in mid-table in the league and failing to progress in the Champions League.
The club are currently sitting just five points off the top of the Premier Division table and yet are still hitting huge financial barriers -- although the imminent sale of youngster Matt Doherty to Wolves has added a timely boost to the club's coffers.
But former Shamrock Rovers player McGuinness admitted he is surprised that problems have arisen now.
"I spoke to the FAI in relation to Bohemians and we were told categorically that Bohs' budget was based on them finishing below mid-table and being knocked out of Europe so I can't see now why, all of a sudden, they have an issue with regard to paying wages when their budget was approved on the basis of doing worse than how they're currently doing," he said.
"We all know that they've been mortgaging on the ground for a long, long time and maybe the debts they had are now coming back to haunt them."
- Neil Ahern
Irish Independent