Stephen Ward

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08/09/2011, 8:49 PM
paul_oshea

Chralie there might be a tiny hint of logic in what you were saying if Ward didn't do this time and again last year for Wolves against far inferior players than Arshavin. He is nowhere near international standard and if by some chance he ever gets close i dont want to see him near left back until that day. I was never championing ward as the man to replace kilbane/his chance etc etc, because i had seen enough of him for wolves to know he was nowhere near good enough, for even lowly wolves at the time. His positioning and general awareness is severely lacking. The only thing going for him is tackling.
08/09/2011, 9:37 PM
Irwin3

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Chralie there might be a tiny hint of logic in what you were saying if Ward didn't do this time and again last year for Wolves against far inferior players than Arshavin. He is nowhere near international standard and if by some chance he ever gets close i dont want to see him near left back until that day. I was never championing ward as the man to replace kilbane/his chance etc etc, because i had seen enough of him for wolves to know he was nowhere near good enough, for even lowly wolves at the time. His positioning and general awareness is severely lacking. The only thing going for him is tackling.

Do what? How many games did Ward even play for Wolves at left back last year? Elokobi was first choice.
09/09/2011, 10:21 AM
paul_oshea

What? He played loads of games. If you must know here it is:

14-Aug-2010 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 2-1 Stoke City Started, played whole game.
21-Aug-2010 Premier League Everton 1-1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, played whole game.
28-Aug-2010 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 1-1 Newcastle Started, played whole game.
11-Sep-2010 Premier League Fulham 2-1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, played whole game. Booked
18-Sep-2010 Premier League Tottenham 3-1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, played whole game.
21-Sep-2010 English League Cup Wolverhampton Wanderers 4-2 Notts County Unused Substitute.
26-Sep-2010 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 1-2 Aston Villa Started, substituted on 39m.
2-Oct-2010 Premier League Wigan 2-0 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, substituted on 82m.
16-Oct-2010 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 1-1 West Ham Started, played whole game.
23-Oct-2010 Premier League Chelsea 2-0 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, played whole game.
30-Oct-2010 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 2-1 Manchester City Started, played whole game.
6-Nov-2010 Premier League Manchester United 2-1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, played whole game.
10-Nov-2010 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 0-2 Arsenal Started, substituted on 88m.
13-Nov-2010 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 2-3 Bolton Unused Substitute.
20-Nov-2010 Premier League Blackpool 2-1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Unused Substitute.
27-Nov-2010 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 3-2 Sunderland Started, played whole game. Booked
4-Dec-2010 Premier League Blackburn 3-0 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, played whole game.
12-Dec-2010 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 1-0 Birmingham City Started, played whole game.
26-Dec-2010 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 1-2 Wigan Started, played whole game.
29-Dec-2010 Premier League Liverpool 0-1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, substituted on 78m. Scored on 56m.
1-Jan-2011 Premier League West Ham 2-0 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, played whole game.
5-Jan-2011 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 1-0 Chelsea Started on bench, introduced on 70 m.
8-Jan-2011 English FA Cup Doncaster Rovers 2-2 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, played whole game.
15-Jan-2011 Premier League Manchester City 4-3 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, substituted on 69m.
18-Jan-2011 English FA Cup Wolverhampton Wanderers 5-0 Doncaster Rovers Started on bench, introduced on 77 m.
22-Jan-2011 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 0-3 Liverpool Started, played whole game.
30-Jan-2011 English FA Cup Wolverhampton Wanderers 0-1 Stoke City Started, substituted on 84m.
2-Feb-2011 Premier League Bolton 1-0 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started on bench, introduced on 75 m.
5-Feb-2011 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 2-1 Manchester United Started on bench, introduced on 65 m.
12-Feb-2011 Premier League Arsenal 2-0 Wolverhampton Wanderers Unused Substitute.
20-Feb-2011 Premier League West Bromwich Albion 1-1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started on bench, introduced on 85 m.
26-Feb-2011 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 4-0 Blackpool Started on bench, introduced on 66 m.
6-Mar-2011 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 3-3 Tottenham Started, substituted on 60m.
19-Mar-2011 Premier League Aston Villa 0-1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started on bench, introduced on 81 m.
2-Apr-2011 Premier League Newcastle 4-1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started on bench, introduced on 81 m.
9-Apr-2011 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 0-3 Everton Unused Substitute.
23-Apr-2011 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 1-1 Fulham Started, played whole game.
26-Apr-2011 Premier League Stoke City 3-0 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, substituted on 79m.
1-May-2011 Premier League Birmingham City 1-1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, substituted on 83m.
8-May-2011 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 3-1 West Bromwich Albion Started, played whole game.
14-May-2011 Premier League Sunderland 1-3 Wolverhampton Wanderers Started, played whole game.
22-May-2011 Premier League Wolverhampton Wanderers 2-3 Blackburn Started, played whole game.

28 games started.

Tets any chance of adding filters to your app?
09/09/2011, 11:15 AM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irwin3

Do what? How many games did Ward even play for Wolves at left back last year? Elokobi was first choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

What? He played loads of games. If you must know here it is:
28 games started.

Tets any chance of adding filters to your app?

Read it again, how many games did he start at left back
The answer is here: http://www.football-lineups.com/footballer/8614/

Filters are on the list of things I'd like to do if and when I have time. Don't expect them anytime soon.
09/09/2011, 11:39 AM
paul_oshea

18 I think? But that only shows started. When he was introduced he probably came on as left back also.

Anyway I think thats pretty much answered.

And for those comparing to McShane, at least Mcshane was a kid. Ward is not a late teen. He is 26. Not much more learning at that age to be done, even if he did come over from bohs 4 years ago at the age of 22. Yikes, we say doyle is approaching his best, and he is 27, in another couple of years people will be talking about when he is retiring!
09/09/2011, 1:34 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

18 I think? But that only shows started. When he was introduced he probably came on as left back also.

Anyway I think thats pretty much answered.

And for those comparing to McShane, at least Mcshane was a kid. Ward is not a late teen. He is 26. Not much more learning at that age to be done, even if he did come over from bohs 4 years ago at the age of 22. Yikes, we say doyle is approaching his best, and he is 27, in another couple of years people will be talking about when he is retiring!

So who in your opinion should be at Left Back for the next 2 or 4 competitive games?
09/09/2011, 1:46 PM
Irwin3

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

18 I think? But that only shows started. When he was introduced he probably came on as left back also.

Anyway I think thats pretty much answered.

And for those comparing to McShane, at least Mcshane was a kid. Ward is not a late teen. He is 26. Not much more learning at that age to be done, even if he did come over from bohs 4 years ago at the age of 22. Yikes, we say doyle is approaching his best, and he is 27, in another couple of years people will be talking about when he is retiring!

The link shows he started 15 games at left back for Wolves last season. 11 before Christmas and 4 after Christmas. So after losing the position to Elokobi he has now apparently won it back this season. Is Mick McCarthy an idiot? He obviously believes it is worth giving Ward another shot at making the left back position his own.

At what age did KK make the left back position his?
09/09/2011, 1:56 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

So who in your opinion should be at Left Back for the next 2 or 4 competitive games?

I reckon you could do a good job in there geysir.

You certainly do a good job at everything else.
09/09/2011, 2:01 PM
Manc Irish Wolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Chralie there might be a tiny hint of logic in what you were saying if Ward didn't do this time and again last year for Wolves against far inferior players than Arshavin. He is nowhere near international standard and if by some chance he ever gets close i dont want to see him near left back until that day. I was never championing ward as the man to replace kilbane/his chance etc etc, because i had seen enough of him for wolves to know he was nowhere near good enough, for even lowly wolves at the time. His positioning and general awareness is severely lacking. The only thing going for him is tackling.

Paul, your scathing criticism of Ward is one that as an Irish "Supporter", I'd like to think is more at akin to those of the booing hordes at Wembley. It appears that you are just creating an argument to back up your pre-conceived ideas, possibly in the rather shallow hope that you will be able to tell us you were correct all along if proved right (if so, I hope the satisfaction that this gives you will outweigh the disappointment of it being to the detriment of the team)

Lets assess some of your opinions shall we:

1) "I was never championing ward as the man to replace kilbane/his chance etc etc, because i had seen enough of him for wolves to know he was nowhere near good enough, for even lowly wolves at the time." - How many times have you watched him Paul? I've been a Wolves Season-Ticket holder for years and have seen enough games to realise that he has progressed immensely since his conversion to Left Back to the point where he has universally been recognised as one of, if not our, best player the season and (along with Hunt) the catalyst for our revival last season. How then is he not good enough for Wolves? If you don't believe me start a thread on mollineux mix and see what the common consensus is.

2) "His positioning and general awareness is severely lacking. The only thing going for him is tackling." - I can only assume that you have cast this dispersion from his earlier games in the Premiership where he was growing into the position, covering yourself with the latter due to his last ditch tackle in the Slovakian game. Bearing in mind that he has kept Junior Hoilett, Duff and Agbonlahor quiet in his last three games his positioning and awareness can't be that bad, can it? Defensive positioning and awareness comes with understanding. I'm nots sure if it's occurred to you that Ireland have not played a consistent backline recently? Equally as Charlie said, there is always an difficulty when players drift inside and not having a strong link with the winger ahead of you is the most testing issue, the reason why him and hunty have such a good understanding, with the latter realsiing when to drop and cover, when Ward goes on one of his surging runs (another thing which he has going for him beyond just tackling). If anyone can be apportioned blame for this it would be Trap for not playing him more regularly in Friendlies making him more familiar with his surroundings prior to throwing him in to such a big double header (in which we didn't concede, I'd like to add).

3) "He is nowhere near international standard" - How good is international standard? How many Slovakians & Armenians are good enough to play in the Premiership? Most football fans would agree that a good premiership team would beat a good international team. If he is good enough to play in the Premiership (which he obviously is, as he does) then he is good enough to play at international level.

4) "Under pressure he doesn't have a good touch, and when rushed we saw the end product the last few days". This is absolute drivel, borne out of a desire to be proved right and on the basis of two bad crosses and one kick out of touch (hardly the most water-tight evidence). If you have watched him regularly, you will realise that his passing is generally very accurate, indeed his interlinking play & movement from the back and up the wings with Jarvis/Hunt is one of our strengths as a team, whereas his crosses equally being bery strong (certainly no less accurate than those two). I dare say that his poor crossing on this occassion was more down to an over-enthusiaism to succeed/a fear through lack of confidence (which comes through experience) in failing to deliver and fans (not supporters) jumping on his back (not that you'd be in that brigade)

At the end of ther day he is a relatively young lad, inexperienced at this level, who is feeling his way into the role. He has not been given the chance to fully familiarise himself with the team, or the winger up the line and we are possibly not exploiting his full potential of going forward. I am not saying he's the greatest player in the world, by any stretch of the imagination, however with time and our support I am sure he will have a valuable contribution to make. In the meantime, I will accept the limited ability of the individual, as I do other members of the team, in the belief that the sum are greater than the parts and holistically we can be stronger together. The latter could be said of the supporters/fans also.
10/09/2011, 10:02 AM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I reckon you could do a good job in there geysir.

You certainly do a good job at everything else.

Thank you Paul, but can you at least offer something constructive to the question at hand. Charlie made a fair comment earlier, acknowledging that Ward made mistakes, but based on his observations he claims that Ward has it in his locker to be decent enough for us in time. That remains to be seen. You have no faith that Ward can nail the position with any distinction. Seeing as Trap probably identified Cunningham as our most likely LB to replace KK, then tried Clarke/Clark (I forget, e or no e?) and now puts Ward in there. Do you think that was a mistake by Trap to put his faith in Ward? or should Trap have gone for another option?
10/09/2011, 7:09 PM
paul_oshea

Yep, fair point. although I'm not a football manager, if you see a problem, at least provide some sort of solutions. Find me solutions not problems :)

I believe there are a couple. I think bar 1 game against georgia(or was it cyprus pretty sure georgia) a few years ago, stephen kelly has looked decent for us, not oustanding, but assured and a decent ball player. He has certainly looked better than any of those in the other full back position. Therefore I would have looked to have had him play right back and JOSH left back. O'shea can play anywhere along the back 4, and again he hasn't looked spectacular out there but he has looked far more accomplished than Kilbane/ward there, certainly from a positional view point. There are other options, but I think this is where we would be most solid and balanced overall, as opposed to lobbed one-sided in terms of ability.
11/09/2011, 12:19 AM
TrapAPony

Coleman, Dunne, O'Shea, Wilson would be my defence
11/09/2011, 9:24 AM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I think bar 1 game against georgia(or was it cyprus pretty sure georgia) a few years ago, stephen kelly has looked decent for us, not oustanding, but assured and a decent ball player. He has certainly looked better than any of those in the other full back position. Therefore I would have looked to have had him play right back and JOSH left back. O'shea can play anywhere along the back 4, and again he hasn't looked spectacular out there but he has looked far more accomplished than Kilbane/ward there, certainly from a positional view point.

Yep, it was Georgia at home. Kelly looks more at home at right-back than O'Shea as far as I'm concerned. JOS could be a stop gap at left back or even central mid in my opiniopn. And yes, before all the amateur historians here get all irate, I do know he has played both positions for us before, but I think we are so anonymous in the middle O'Shea would be an improvement.
11/09/2011, 12:32 PM
the bear

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapAPony

Coleman, Dunne, O'Shea, Wilson would be my defence

judging on previous performances for ireland, sledger is a better centre half than o'shea

i would have coleman, dunne , sledge, o'shea

on the basis that wilson hasn't proved himself yet
12/09/2011, 1:44 AM
ArdeeBhoy

Ward looks even worse for Ireland than Kilbane. If that was possible.
12/09/2011, 4:32 AM
SkStu

He is certainly no Denis Irwin but Stephen Ward is getting a very tough time here. I saw the Slovakia game in full, did not see the Russian game but he held his own. His crossing was what really let him down. Defensively he improved immensely over the course of the game. As I said, he is not the answer to our problems but he is a good player and can do a job. Also, he has contributed to 3 clean sheets in each of his 3 caps to date. Lets give the lad a chance.
12/09/2011, 9:04 AM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

He is certainly no Denis Irwin but Stephen Ward is getting a very tough time here. I saw the Slovakia game in full, did not see the Russian game but he held his own. His crossing was what really let him down. Defensively he improved immensely over the course of the game. As I said, he is not the answer to our problems but he is a good player and can do a job. Also, he has contributed to 3 clean sheets in each of his 3 caps to date. Lets give the lad a chance.

Bang on. I thought he struggled in Russia but was one of our best players against Slovakia. Either way he's a newcomer to the team and squad and has largely done well. Whether he goes on to be our first choice LB is hard to know, but he's taken his chance well and deserves a little bit more benefit of the doubt.

There are obvious concerns about his ability at international level, but the way he's improved year-on-year at Wolves means I wouldn't bet against him becoming a fixture for us.
12/09/2011, 9:28 AM
paul_oshea

SvD were you at the game?

He struggled severly against Slovakia, but they were too poor to put us to the sword, particularly down his side. Russia weren't and thats the difference.
12/09/2011, 11:48 AM
seanfhear

It will be interesting to see how Trapatoni reacts to this not great performance against Russia. Will Trap believe that he can iron out some of Wards failings and stay loyal to him (Traps fairly big on Loyalty) or will he return to Killer.

It does seem surprising that Wilson has not been blooded/tried (to any great extent) by Ireland. I think to get to the bottom of this we would need to know more about Traps relationship with Wilson and more about Wilsons desire to play for Ireland (I have no great reasons to think that he does not want to play for Ireland) .
12/09/2011, 1:06 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

SvD were you at the game?

He struggled severly against Slovakia, but they were too poor to put us to the sword, particularly down his side. Russia weren't and thats the difference.

Yeah I was at the game. I thought he defended well, made several crucial blocks and distributed the ball inconsistently but generally did ok (he gave it away poorly a couple of times, like everyone in the whole team).

Most importantly he was constantly looking for the ball - he was the defence's only useful outball the whole match, and he charged up from left-back during the entire second half when quite a few senior players were hiding. He didn't always use it well, but I was impressed by his willingness and enthusiasm when others didn't want to know the ball or, just as bad, simply hoofed it aimlessly. Ward was probably our only player against Slovakia who continually drove the ball forward and with some semblance of purpose.

As for Russia, they didn't put us to the sword. So what is the difference? I'll take your point on Ward being fortunate - on another day it could cost us - but he's no more guilty of that than Andrews, O'Shea, Whelan, Kilbane or even Dunne, Sledge or Given on occasions.

He was up against it and had his moments, but stood up well particularly in comparison to teammates. So why the OTT histrionics? Why not, as others have suggested, just cut the guy some slack? His performances so far have as much good as they have had bad so it's just as valid to suggest he'll win us a game than cost us one.

I haven't seen enough of Ward to be convinced or unconvinced - but what I've seen of him for Ireland has be promising enough for me to not to throw him on the scrapheap.

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