Except that FIFA/CAS have already ruled on all of this and aren't likely to re-visit the whole scenario on the basis of the odd dissenting voice on what they would probably consider an obscure view anyway...
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Except that FIFA/CAS have already ruled on all of this and aren't likely to re-visit the whole scenario on the basis of the odd dissenting voice on what they would probably consider an obscure view anyway...
They'll probably wonder WTF Belfast has to do with Seoul, bin it and move on...Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
What NB proposes has nothing to do with FIFA or the CAS. It would be an internal IFA policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Wasn't sure where to post this, but it may lead to more tension among supporters.
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...e-3111510.html
So not the usual wittering on about players switching before a competitive cap then?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Not how I read it....
Is it a political gesture though, or a humanitarian one, or both even?Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
Some of the bitter cynicism towards this on OWC stunned me:
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Usually I would automatically recognise this as a laudable gesture recognising the suffering influcted by evil men during some very dark days in our history, but when a sectarian rabble like the FAI are involved I cant help but be suspicicious.
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I cant say that I'm proud of thinking that way, but given some of their behaviour I cant help be suspicious either. I realise that there is nothing tangible in my suspicion either, apart from the fact that they take sectarian tensions in our country as a bonus to their organisation's welfare.
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Strange precedent for the FAI to set though.With the history of this place,every match they play is going to be the anniversary of something.If one were to take place on the anniversary of some IRA massacre and they are asked to commemorate the victims,they will have put themselves in a very interesting position.
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When I was at school, our history teacher mentioned a comment made by some politico along the lines of..."The English never remember, the Irish never forget".
FFS they're still slabbering about "800 years of English opression"
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If you were cynical,you could see this as just another "claim" on the territory and people of Northern Ireland.If the IFA decided to wear black armbands in memory of protestants killed in Cork in the 1920's ,it would be comparable.
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I extremely cynical and that's how I see it.
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Noble sentiments...yet, on the day of the game, we'll have Northern Ireland's name dragged through the mud, yet again, to a worldwide audience by a football association, the FAi, which has simply no regard to the damage it is doing within Northern Ireland.
The FAI are entitled to remember whoever they wish. As Delaney stated though, all victims of the Troubles are being remembered via the gesture. NI fans might have issues with the FAI generally, but to make a deal out of this seems a bit off, especially as the FAI are obliging a request by the victims' families.Quote:
Are we all assuming the dead were football fans and that they supported ROI?
NB proposes that a player is suppose to know who their life long partner is on the first few dates, before it gets serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
The proposal allows for a separation and reconciliation with the first partner under certain circumstances, i.e. if 2nd partner gets quickly bored.
But If you have publicly dissed your first partner after you thought you found 'true love' with your 2nd partner, then there is no reconciliation with partner nr 1 under any circumstances.
If in the beginning you chose one, while proclaiming that the other was less attractive, you can't then come back to the jilted prospect and ask for forgiveness, after being kicked out on your ear by the glamourous partner.
Mail order relationships are okay up to any age. Foreign born who are looking for a steady house and home are welcomed regardless of what relationships they were in previous. NB doesn't mind, as long as any insult/disrespect by that player was directed at the foreign association.
It pains me to agree with AB, but come on NB, you know full well there is no "South", you've had this pointed out many times, you know it yourself yet you still do it. WUMing or trolling methinks.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
To be fair to NB, I habitually use "the south" or "down south" from time to time as well when referring to south of the border. I think it's just a northern thing. I'm pretty sure it's common in Derry at least. Although, whether or not NB has an agenda behind his usage is another issue entirely. :p
What an absolutely ridiculous analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I believe at 18 years of age you should have some sense of national identity.
A lot of people refer to "the North" when they mean Northern Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Not sure if they have an agenda, or not.
Does knowing/sensing you have an Irish national identity preclude a NI born player from choosing to play for the IFA?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Afaia, even a player who has a strong sense of Irish national identity can still choose to play for the IFA.
Touché. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
My mother's a Roscommon woman and even she uses "the south", although possibly moving up north did that to her.
Niall McGinn is a good example.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Multi-Quoting still not practiced by NB Shock!
;)
Maybe he thinks it's a 'Southern' thing...
As for Nordies using the 'S'word, then they really ought to buy an atlas or ten...
:rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Oops. Guilty of same re.MQ.
But it honestly doesn't pain you that much...
Of course it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
However, if his boyhood dream is to play for the South at senior International level, he should chase that dream from Under 19.
Getting your pants bunched about an acceptable colloquialism like that is real 'life's too short' territory. Same as I mentioned earlier about the lazy but perfectly understandable uses of 'Catholic/Protestant'. No surrender to the prescriptivists I say. Overly caring about who/what things are called got people killed not so long ago. Good riddance to that attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You got to admit, though, it had style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Ah, boyhood dreams.
What would we do without them...
And a certain person's oneirology fixation.
Their whole 'argument' would be lost without them!
;)
Boyhood dreams are an entirely different matter than what you statedQuote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
"I believe at 18 years of age you should have some sense of national identity"
I had boyhood dreams :)
DI why would you refer to the republic as down south, aren't you from donegal, but atteneded school in Doire Sir.
Sorry just when you said i refer to down south when talking across the border kinda irked me :D
I'd say most of us did geysir, but more related to certain, er, physical changes that usually happen...
:rolleyes:
If a player has boyhood dreams of playing for the South, it would seem logical that he would have a sense of national identity by the time he is 18.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I encourage such players to chase their dream - early.
Really? What an original opinion.
I dunno; it's not used in a disparaging sense or anything. Certainly not like "them'uns up north" anyway. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I've always used "the south" agenda-lessly and never really thought twice about it. Isn't it kind of a corollary of using "the north", which I tend to do as well? I am indeed from Donegal but I'd use "down south" when speaking to people in Derry, I guess. I think most people I know from Derry would use "the south" (and "down south"), as would my da who's from Tyrone, although not when actually in "the south", obviously. I probably picked it up from them.
My issue is more with the capitalisation of the "S"
Not Brazil (but Norn Iron), how practical do you think your proposal is?
I get you. ;) I suppose it's like people/the media using "the North", as NB points out, and maybe he capitalises it to indicate he's referring to an official entity, albeit by an unofficial title. If anything, though, I would have thought using "the north/North" and "the south/South" to be a typically-nationalist thing to do; linguistically treating the two jurisdictions on the island as being geographically north and south of the one entity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
But McGinn has always been aware of his identity, yet still remained with NI. Shane Ferguson's position was speculated to be somewhat similar before he decided to stick with NI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Players can clearly be aware of their national identity, but not necessarily allow that to take precedence over their international careers.
Boyhood dreams as we should know by now, are just that - boyhood dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Kenny Dalglish had boyhood dreams of playing for Rangers, but when Celtic came knocking on his door, the posters on his bedroom walls were ripped down in a flash. We can say that boyhood dreams don't necessarily affect choices nor should a boy be bound by his boyhood dreams.
Having a sense of Irish national identity does not necessarily exclude the existence of the entity of NI, a NI identity, a pride in representing NI, it does not preclude a player from choosing to play for the IFA. You can have 2 players (2 little boys :)) with an equal sense of Irish national identity, one choses the IFA and the other the FAI.
Whilst identity may be a factor with NI born Irish nationals, it's not the determining factor for which association a player so choses.
We are then left with the proposition that a player should decide before 18 which association they hang their boots to, regardless of boyhood dreams or how important their sense of national identity is.
The rules have been changed to favour the player over the association. The dual national player is a free agent until capped at senior competitive level. That unscrupulous/greedy associations can't bind a player for the benefit of the association and then ignore him later to the detriment of the player, specifically his dual nationality eligibility/right to play for another association.
The IFA and FAI could meet and decide on ground rules.
I more suspect that it's not a simple 'have your cake and eat it' scenario for NI born players and the nationalist community.
Imposing a compulsory age restriction on what's perceived as a bona fide aspect of identity choice could well become a sensitive matter with other repercussions.
As I discussed it with you when you were compiling your tome, the Nationalist in me can't abide the use of the term the/The North. The capitalization legitimizes the typical southern ignorance of our fourth green field.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
The recent media usage of the capitalized term as well as Northern Ireland has irked me so.
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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Nah you missed my point. I had a friend who was from donegal north donegal also, and when it suited him he was a northerner as such, but donegal then again when it suited, like ulster northern or ulster southern depending on who he was talking to or with, a fashionable thing also. He is dead now...Only joking but I took issue with you including yourself as a Northerner, when you said previously that you went to school in Derry but you were from donegal.
i think its the context its used in to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
for example up north or down south from a geographical point of view is fine, as we do, but the problem is when you use it in a political or demographic context.
Did you have to capitalise the N? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Why not during their mother’s 22 week ultrasound, 1 kick for the North, 2 kicks for the South?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Ha, now that's an interesting one; do I consider myself Ulster northern (or what they call "nordie" down south ;) ) or Ulster southern (do they have a term for them outside of Ulster?)? In spite of my birth in Donegal, I think I have an Ulster northern mentality. Does my birth in the south technically disqualify me though? I grew up less than five miles from the border on the Donegal side, but as I said, my father is a Tyrone man and virtually all my dealings (social, education or otherwise) were in Derry as it was the closest town or city to me. I often just say I'm from Derry as a result and out of convenience, I guess. Surprisingly, I've never actually been in Letterkenny, where I was born, for a night out in my life.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
With a bit of fine tuning - very workable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
And - mutually beneficial to both the FAI and IFA.
I hummed and hawed over that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Ya but you dont venture out very often DI...:D
joking, althought statistically its hard to guage if thats a coincidence or not. where is irwin3 when i need him?!
Under 19 age level would be more realistic - don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doire Abu