Stephen Kenny

Was the board meeting review originally supposed to be next week? With funding being withheld from the FAI, are they utilising Kenny's departure to put up a smokescreen?

The national nightmare is over!

Kennys time has come, but Im not celebrating him leaving like I did Trap and O'Neill leaving. They had been far more successful, but they also seemed to have a massive superiority complex and gave the impression that little old Ireland were lucky to have them.

Kenny from the beginning felt like one of us. Everyone on here is passionate about Irish football, and Kenny is the same. His interviews coming into the job laid out a potentially exciting future. He railed against the previous ideas that Irish players couldnt play football and just werent good enough.

It didnt work out, but I still think the core ideas were right and I think we can have a bright future. I'm glad we are now moving on, but for me there is a sadness of how it went.

Farewell Stephen. Never before has an Irish manager made so many excuses, or had so many made on his behalf.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

He railed against the previous ideas that Irish players couldnt play football and just werent good enough.

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He may indeed have railed against that, but he also failed, spectacularly, to demonstrate that he was correct in doing so.

Long past time it has to be said. I turned against Kenny big time after Luxembourg, but the quality of play and lack of goals before then had seriously damaged his reputation. The lowest point for me was Greece away. That was a game we went into full of seemingly high morale, special training camp beforehand, confident of getting a result, and they were so thoroughly outplayed in every section of the field it will be interesting to see in accounts of the future if anyone in the FAI considered the chop then.

It astonishes me he was given as much time, leeway and sympathetic treatment from large swaths of the media that he did in the period since it started to go wrong. It was a never-ending tide of "green shoots", "silver linings", "performance was good, the results will come", and it never got any better. The RTE Sport article this morning literally has "green shoots" in the title still! Ireland were being humiliated at home by the likes of Armenia and pundits were suggesting some slight tweaks in midfield, it was like I was on a drug trip watching it. Any benefit from capping young players is completely negated by the seeding/ranking slippage that Kenny oversaw, and the style of football he attempted to introduce didn't work. The players gave up this year, no matter what some of them are saying publically.

A few sliding doors moments played a big factor, like the shoot-out loss or not holding on for that win in Portugal. But the thing that annoyed me the most was how the goalposts kept being moved. It was "working for the next campaign" until we got to that campaign, botched the opening few games, then back to "working for the next campaign", then an awful draw because our seeding was so dreadful, then "working for the next campaign" again. We started Nations League seasons insisting we were looking to top groups, and by the end if them Kenny's tenure was safe if he could just win his last game, even if it was against the likes of Luxembourg. His tenure has been disastrous, and will take years to recover from. I genuinely struggle to find sympathy for the man: his incompetence was so nakedly apparent by the end, I can't help but think he should have done the responsible thing and resigned long before. The LOI beckons whenever an appropriate vacancy pops up: I genuinely don't think anyone else would have him.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Long past time it has to be said. I turned against Kenny big time after Luxembourg, but the quality of play and lack of goals before then had seriously damaged his reputation. The lowest point for me was Greece away. That was a game we went into full of seemingly high morale, special training camp beforehand, confident of getting a result, and they were so thoroughly outplayed in every section of the field it will be interesting to see in accounts of the future if anyone in the FAI considered the chop then.

It astonishes me he was given as much time, leeway and sympathetic treatment from large swaths of the media that he did in the period since it started to go wrong. It was a never-ending tide of "green shoots", "silver linings", "performance was good, the results will come", and it never got any better. The RTE Sport article this morning literally has "green shoots" in the title still! Ireland were being humiliated at home by the likes of Armenia and pundits were suggesting some slight tweaks in midfield, it was like I was on a drug trip watching it. Any benefit from capping young players is completely negated by the seeding/ranking slippage that Kenny oversaw, and the style of football he attempted to introduce didn't work. The players gave up this year, no matter what some of them are saying publically.

A few sliding doors moments played a big factor, like the shoot-out loss or not holding on for that win in Portugal. But the thing that annoyed me the most was how the goalposts kept being moved. It was "working for the next campaign" until we got to that campaign, botched the opening few games, then back to "working for the next campaign", then an awful draw because our seeding was so dreadful, then "working for the next campaign" again. We started Nations League seasons insisting we were looking to top groups, and by the end if them Kenny's tenure was safe if he could just win his last game, even if it was against the likes of Luxembourg. His tenure has been disastrous, and will take years to recover from. I genuinely struggle to find sympathy for the man: his incompetence was so nakedly apparent by the end, I can't help but think he should have done the responsible thing and resigned long before. The LOI beckons whenever an appropriate vacancy pops up: I genuinely don't think anyone else would have him.

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You're too kind

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

You're too kind

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And completely factual & correct.

Absolutely. It was a good post

We have witnessed the reign of the poorest Ireland manager by far in living memory. Mick Meagan had a similarly shocking record results wise but he had far fewer games and the quality of the opposition he played back then was generally of a much higher standard. Staunton for all his faults got better results against superior opposition. Good riddance to Kenny. He was out of his depth from day one, took far more money than he deserved and clung on for dear life at the end incessantly splurting out excuse after excuse to justify his failings.

I also don't buy the excuse about the quality of the players. Whilst there are no world beaters (though Ferguson could become one) there are a number of decent Premiership quality players for selection together with some of the better Championship players. Outside the top 6 or 7 teams in Europe its become commonplace to see Championship players in the starting line ups. You would be expecting the next manager to get significantly better results with the same group of players, however due to the damage caused under Kenny's tenure it'll be a long time before we are back in the big time.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Whilst there are no world beaters (though Ferguson could become one) there are a number of decent Premiership quality players together with some of the better Championship players.

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Are there?

There's Ferguson obviously. There's Collins, who blows hot and cold for an average team, but we'll count him as decent. There's Kelleher, Omobamidele, Obafemi and Doherty, who don't play. There's Ogbene, Coleman, Egan, Cullen and O'Shea who are already cut adrift at the bottom and who can hardly be called "decent Premiership quality players". And I think that's it.

Whoscored gives match ratings for all the Championship games, and it has eight Irish players in its top 125 players (with nine games or more). Sammie Szmodmics (#16) and Finn Azaz (29) are uncapped. Alan Browne is #21. Luke McNally (33), Mark McGuinness (37) and Kevin Long (73) aren't in the national squad (kept out by Scales, Collins, O'Shea, Egan). And there's Will Smallbone (94) and Mark Sykes (120), and again I think that's it.

Technically I suppose that does mean we have "some of the better Championship players", and match ratings (like anything else I guess) are an inexact science. But in reality we have to acknowledge there's an awful lot of bog-average to poor Championship players in our squad. There's more Irish players (and more caps) in the bottom 100 - Springett, Hogan, Kelly, Armstrong, Molumby, Christie, Emakhu, Brady, Bazunu, Connolly, Robinson.

That said, I do think we can do better than we have been doing the last three years.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Are there?

There's Ferguson obviously. There's Collins, who blows hot and cold for an average team, but we'll count him as decent. There's Kelleher, Omobamidele, Obafemi and Doherty, who don't play. There's Ogbene, Coleman, Egan, Cullen and O'Shea who are already cut adrift at the bottom and who can hardly be called "decent Premiership quality players". And I think that's it.

Whoscored gives match ratings for all the Championship games, and it has eight Irish players in its top 125 players (with nine games or more). Sammie Szmodmics (#16) and Finn Azaz (29) are uncapped. Alan Browne is #21. Luke McNally (33), Mark McGuinness (37) and Kevin Long (73) aren't in the national squad (kept out by Scales, Collins, O'Shea, Egan). And there's Will Smallbone (94) and Mark Sykes (120), and again I think that's it.

Technically I suppose that does mean we have "some of the better Championship players", and match ratings (like anything else I guess) are an inexact science. But in reality we have to acknowledge there's an awful lot of bog-average to poor Championship players in our squad. There's more Irish players (and more caps) in the bottom 100 - Springett, Hogan, Kelly, Armstrong, Molumby, Christie, Emakhu, Brady, Bazunu, Connolly, Robinson.

That said, I do think we can do better than we have been doing the last three years.

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My feeling is the squad is around the same quality as Mick had to work with. Here's the lineup vs Denmark in the 1-1:

Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Whelan, Browne, Hendrick, Hourihane, McClean, McGoldrick

You could argue Doherty and possibly Duffy were in better form then, but the rest I am not sure about. Cullen plays the Whelan role, you could argue that's a downgrade but Whelan was 35 or 36 at this stage. I'd rather Knight and Molumby over Hendrick and Hourihane, and Bazunu and Ferguson just ahead of Randolph and McG. Plus Chieo in the form he is in would make the above side. Anyway, you could argue individual merits but overall the standard is roughly similar on average, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

That was a game we went into full of seemingly high morale, special training camp beforehand, confident of getting a result, and they were so thoroughly outplayed in every section of the field it will be interesting to see in accounts of the future if anyone in the FAI considered the chop then.

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Somewhat sure there was some talk that the people in the FAI were all for it but Canham and Hill talked them around doing it in June because of the women's team preparing for the WC. Then again it might have been Gavin Cummiskey that talked about it and he was the one that was also saying the FAI were gonna move Kenny on after Septembers games.

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Originally Posted by zero

My feeling is the squad is around the same quality as Mick had to work with. Here's the lineup vs Denmark in the 1-1:

Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Whelan, Browne, Hendrick, Hourihane, McClean, McGoldrick

You could argue Doherty and possibly Duffy were in better form then, but the rest I am not sure about. Cullen plays the Whelan role, you could argue that's a downgrade but Whelan was 35 or 36 at this stage. I'd rather Knight and Molumby over Hendrick and Hourihane, and Bazunu and Ferguson just ahead of Randolph and McG. Plus Chieo in the form he is in would make the above side. Anyway, you could argue individual merits but overall the standard is roughly similar on average, in my opinion.

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I don't know - I think midfield is our weakest area at the moment so I'm not sure you could have the three current midfielders in there, even allowing for current coaching/setup/not playing to our strengths.

I'd have 2019 Hendrick (a solid Premier player; played in Europe with Burnley the previous season) over any of the current three. Cullen over Whelan I think because (as you say) Whelan was 35 and moving down the leagues. Molumby/Knight v Hourihane - bit meh on all of them. Call it a draw overall? 1½-1½ each?

2019 was much better at full/wing-back but 2023 is much better in the main striker. 2019 shades keeper and centre-half for me, but 2023 shades the supporting attacker roles. 2019 had experience but no youth; 2023 has youth but no experience. Both bad, but 2023 is easier to fix at least.

I think we're still slightly weaker than 2019, even with Ferguson being the biggest difference between the two sides - but that's not hugely different to what you're saying in the end of the day.

I do think though there's too many of the younger players who've not kicked on in the last three years and that needs to change. Parrott is the obvious one - and maybe Armstrong/Moran/Azaz/Szmodmics whoever will just take his place in the squad in the next year or two. But there's lots of others - Knight, Molumby, Idah, Omobamidele, Cullen, Obafemi, even Bazunu/Kelleher - who aren't where we might have thought they'd be three years ago. I don't really know why there's so many. Could also add Joe Hodge or Conor Coventry, as blasts from the past. I'm not sure what a new manager can do about that. If the players can kick on at club level, then we could be doing alright in a couple of years.

But I would still expect us to be doing better - we should at the very least be putting it up to Greece...

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Long past time it has to be said. I turned against Kenny big time after Luxembourg, but the quality of play and lack of goals before then had seriously damaged his reputation. The lowest point for me was Greece away. That was a game we went into full of seemingly high morale, special training camp beforehand, confident of getting a result, and they were so thoroughly outplayed in every section of the field it will be interesting to see in accounts of the future if anyone in the FAI considered the chop then.

It astonishes me he was given as much time, leeway and sympathetic treatment from large swaths of the media that he did in the period since it started to go wrong. It was a never-ending tide of "green shoots", "silver linings", "performance was good, the results will come", and it never got any better. The RTE Sport article this morning literally has "green shoots" in the title still! Ireland were being humiliated at home by the likes of Armenia and pundits were suggesting some slight tweaks in midfield, it was like I was on a drug trip watching it. Any benefit from capping young players is completely negated by the seeding/ranking slippage that Kenny oversaw, and the style of football he attempted to introduce didn't work. The players gave up this year, no matter what some of them are saying publically.

A few sliding doors moments played a big factor, like the shoot-out loss or not holding on for that win in Portugal. But the thing that annoyed me the most was how the goalposts kept being moved. It was "working for the next campaign" until we got to that campaign, botched the opening few games, then back to "working for the next campaign", then an awful draw because our seeding was so dreadful, then "working for the next campaign" again. We started Nations League seasons insisting we were looking to top groups, and by the end if them Kenny's tenure was safe if he could just win his last game, even if it was against the likes of Luxembourg. His tenure has been disastrous, and will take years to recover from. I genuinely struggle to find sympathy for the man: his incompetence was so nakedly apparent by the end, I can't help but think he should have done the responsible thing and resigned long before. The LOI beckons whenever an appropriate vacancy pops up: I genuinely don't think anyone else would have him.

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The whole seeding thing is over blown, and anyone who thinks otherwise, doesn't understand how seeding works.

Seeding is now done on Nations League ranking

The first 16 in the A path, take up 10 Pot 1, 6 Pot 2 places...

The 4 winners of the B path, take up the last 4 Pot 2 places...

So, unless we won our Path B group.. which is 3rd seeds going in, would have meant way out performing our ranking.. our seeding got no better or no worse.

We however were unbelievably unlucky with the draw

Holland were actually the top ranked Pot 1 team

France were the best team in Pot 2

Greece were the second best team in Pot 4

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Are there?

There's Ferguson obviously. There's Collins, who blows hot and cold for an average team, but we'll count him as decent. There's Kelleher, Omobamidele, Obafemi and Doherty, who don't play. There's Ogbene, Coleman, Egan, Cullen and O'Shea who are already cut adrift at the bottom and who can hardly be called "decent Premiership quality players". And I think that's it.

Whoscored gives match ratings for all the Championship games, and it has eight Irish players in its top 125 players (with nine games or more). Sammie Szmodmics (#16) and Finn Azaz (29) are uncapped. Alan Browne is #21. Luke McNally (33), Mark McGuinness (37) and Kevin Long (73) aren't in the national squad (kept out by Scales, Collins, O'Shea, Egan). And there's Will Smallbone (94) and Mark Sykes (120), and again I think that's it.

Technically I suppose that does mean we have "some of the better Championship players", and match ratings (like anything else I guess) are an inexact science. But in reality we have to acknowledge there's an awful lot of bog-average to poor Championship players in our squad. There's more Irish players (and more caps) in the bottom 100 - Springett, Hogan, Kelly, Armstrong, Molumby, Christie, Emakhu, Brady, Bazunu, Connolly, Robinson.

That said, I do think we can do better than we have been doing the last three years.

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That's fair enough and maybe we are worse off than suggested but I would argue that McCarthy had poorer players overall with an aging Whelan, Hourihane, McGoldrick (who was decent but no Ferguson), Maguire, McClean, Stevens and Richard Keogh all regularly making appearances for him. All in reality were only Championship level at best.

Isn't World Cup qualification seeding done based on the FIFA world rankings? Where we've absolutely tanked under Stephen Kenny?

This months rankings haven't been updated yet but as of last month we're ranked 28th amongst the UEFA teams. Now that the qualifiers will be 12 groups we gotta be outside the top 36 to drop to 4th seeds.

Not sure when the draw is done but a good NLs could see us get into the top 24 and second seeds.

Just to add when Kenny took over we were ranked 20th amongst the UEFA teams. So we were ranked as second seeds before the NLs and think it was mentioned had we won one match in that NL campaign three years ago we'd have been second seeds for the WC qualifiers.

Given that there will be 12 groups it would be pretty appalling not to be second seeds. We really do have a bit of a mountain to climb to undo the damage that's been done on that score.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

Given that there will be 12 groups it would be pretty appalling not to be second seeds. We really do have a bit of a mountain to climb to undo the damage that's been done on that score.

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At the end of 2022 we were the 24th ranked team in UEFA.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

I also don't buy the excuse about the quality of the players. Whilst there are no world beaters (though Ferguson could become one) there are a number of decent Premiership quality players for selection together with some of the better Championship players. Outside the top 6 or 7 teams in Europe its become commonplace to see Championship players in the starting line ups. You would be expecting the next manager to get significantly better results with the same group of players, however due to the damage caused under Kenny's tenure it'll be a long time before we are back in the big time.

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I agree with this completely. The Championship is a very strong division these days and we are lucky to have so many players there. IMHO it's the most competitive second tier in Europe and one of the top 10 divisions overall.

Scotland qualified with 2 games to spare with a squad that looks very similar to ours on paper. There's no reason in the world why we can't do that*.

*Whatever about Stephen Kenny, we were **** upon from a great height with the draw for this last campaign.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

Scotland qualified with 2 games to spare with a squad that looks very similar to ours on paper. There's no reason in the world why we can't do that*.

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They have Robertson, Tierney, McTominay and McGinn; Ferguson is the only player we have in that range. That's a fair aul difference.

In other news, the backroom staff have left too (unsurprisingly). Andrews, O'Shea, Kiely et al.

They have more than us in midfield and at left back, but there's a lot of very well organised mediocrity in their squad.

If I was picking a joint Irish-Scottish XI I'd have 7 Irish and 4 Scots.

------------------- Bazunu --------------------
Coleman Collins Egan Robertson
--- Gilmour Cullen McTominney ---
McGinn -------------------------- Ogbene
------------------ Ferguson ------------------

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They have Robertson, Tierney, McTominay and McGinn; Ferguson is the only player we have in that range. That's a fair aul difference.

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They have, and slightly under that they have McGregor who is a big player for a successful Celtic era and Gilmour who Brighton handed over a few quid for and plays regularly for them EPL and in Europe. Picture a five a side with the two keepers and their midfield four McTominay /McGinn / Gilmour / McGregor Vs whatever four of ours you want to pick, it'd be a cull, a turkey shoot. Granted they aren't like that throughout the side but midfield dictates, just as when we had Keane & Co in there, we were decent. I think banging the look at Scotland drum actually undermines the argument trying to be made, which does have its merits, we aren't where we should be.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

They have more than us in midfield and at left back, but there's a lot of very well organised mediocrity in their squad.

If I was picking a joint Irish-Scottish XI I'd have 7 Irish and 4 Scots.

------------------- Bazunu --------------------
Coleman Collins Egan Robertson
--- Gilmour Cullen McTominney ---
McGinn -------------------------- Ogbene
------------------ Ferguson ------------------

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Cullen wouldn't get into any midfield involving Scottish players.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

They have more than us in midfield and at left back, but there's a lot of very well organised mediocrity in their squad.

If I was picking a joint Irish-Scottish XI I'd have 7 Irish and 4 Scots.

------------------- Bazunu --------------------
Coleman Collins Egan Robertson
--- Gilmour Cullen McTominney ---
McGinn -------------------------- Ogbene
------------------ Ferguson ------------------

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Kieran Tierney is playing for a La Liga side in the Champion League. There's no question but that he makes a combined team, even if playing slightly out of position.

The 4/5 players they have that are better than ours are the 4/5 decent players that every solid (but not great) international team needs, but that we don't have.

Only positions I'd be confident of us having on a combined team would be GK, RCB, CB, and ST. LCB, LWB and the four central midfielders I'd have from Scotland with it being a contest only at RWB between Coleman and Hickey.

Aaron Hickey is a regular Premier League right back aswell,we don’t have that either, even their back up Patterson plays more than anyone we have,Coleman’s best days are well behind him….

Yeah there's no way you don't have Hickey and Tierney in the combined team. We have no idea what shape Coleman will be in when he comes back and injuries aside, he's 35.

I'm taking Bazunu in goal,

Doherty at RB, 2 irish centre halves and Robertson at LB

3 scottish midfielder (McTominay, McGinn, Gilmour)

Ogbene on the wing, Ferguson in the centre. Might take Ben Doak as my last winger, even though he hasn't made his debut yet, it's either him or Mikey Johnston. You could probably fit Hickey in if you're going for 5 at the back but **** that, if I'm combining teams, I want a 4-3-3

Better full backs and midfield than us but their strength is concentrated to one area of the field. That’s something we identified in the home game against them – we closed space and were aggressive in stopping that core strength from playing (think we started the game with a heavy tackle on McTominay to set that aggressive tone). But Scotland did well to finish the EC qualification ahead of Norway imo – they don’t have the creative quality of Ødegaard or a striker within a mile of Haaland’s class. The quality of those two players alone should have been enough to qualify Norway so credit to Scotland. They have an overall competence throughout their team that is above us.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Better full backs and midfield than us but their strength is concentrated to one area of the field. That’s something we identified in the home game against them – we closed space and were aggressive in stopping that core strength from playing (think we started the game with a heavy tackle on McTominay to set that aggressive tone). But Scotland did well to finish the EC qualification ahead of Norway imo – they don’t have the creative quality of Ødegaard or a striker within a mile of Haaland’s class. The quality of those two players alone should have been enough to qualify Norway so credit to Scotland. They have an overall competence throughout their team that is above us.

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That's because Norway are essentially Wales pre 2018. Every club out there though thinks every young Norwegian player is Erling Haaland so sign them only to move them on quickly after when they realised they've been duped ( I mean, Ostigaard playing for Napoli and Nyland playing for Sevilla has to be some sort of **** take surely!).

As for Scotland. The issue for them which is why I think they will struggle to do anymore than get past a last 16 place is while they have some really good players in their side the actual spine of their team is actually not that great (I would actually take the Irish spine over there's any day). Their GK, defence and striking options are mediocre at best but their midfield is pretty good so I do think they are going to need to ride their luck at times and hope McGinn (despite McTominey's goals in qualifying I do think McGinn is easily Scotland's most important player) and have a big tournament. The best I can envision for Scotland is a tournament similar to Ireland in 2016 which is a last 16 finish.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

I'm taking Bazunu in goal,

Doherty at RB, 2 irish centre halves and Robertson at LB

3 scottish midfielder (McTominay, McGinn, Gilmour)

Ogbene on the wing, Ferguson in the centre. Might take Ben Doak as my last winger, even though he hasn't made his debut yet, it's either him or Mikey Johnston. You could probably fit Hickey in if you're going for 5 at the back but **** that, if I'm combining teams, I want a 4-3-3

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You're picking Doehrty at RB when Scotland have two players regularly starting at RB in the PL. Wouldn't have Doherty as a RB in the Irish best XI nevermind a combined team.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

( I mean, Ostigaard playing for Napoli and Nyland playing for Sevilla has to be some sort of **** take surely!).

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Not really if you accept Nyland was signed as a backup and acknowledge there is a quality gap between the top clubs in La Liga and the rest (and between first choice keeper and backup at most clubs). He is a safe bet signing for the role he has and maybe gets his game with Scotland? Sure, Østigård is not a quality player in his position as Ødegaard and Haaland are in theirs, but good enough to get his game for Scotland? Point is that on paper Norway can beef out their team to match Scotland and with the quality of Ødegaard and Haaland that should be decisive in determining results between the two. Didn’t work out that way though :-), so credit to Scotland.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Not really if you accept Nyland was signed as a backup and acknowledge there is a quality gap between the top clubs in La Liga and the rest (and between first choice keeper and backup at most clubs). He is a safe bet signing for the role he has and maybe gets his game with Scotland? Sure, Østigård is not a quality player in his position as Ødegaard and Haaland are in theirs, but good enough to get his game for Scotland? Point is that on paper Norway can beef out their team to match Scotland and with the quality of Ødegaard and Haaland that should be decisive in determining results between the two. Didn’t work out that way though :-), so credit to Scotland.

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He wasnt a regular starter in England since 2018/19 and couldnt even get ahead of Ireland's 3rd choice keeper when he was at Bournemouth and then he goes from that to playing for RB Leipzig & Sevilla...he can have these big name plus next to his name all he wants, its never going to suddenly make him a good GK and if anything shows just how desperate RB Leipzig and Sevilla really were at the time.

Possibly Ostigaard could get into the Scotland team but its probably a close call, Ostigard no matter what the club next to his name says is still a decent championship CB in my eyes who's found himself at Napoli by accident due to being young, cheap and having some Serie A experience from his time on loan with Genoa. Tbh the spine for Norway from back to front is quite imbalanced, the front part of the spine is probably as good as any spine in world football but the defensive side of it is not up to scratch at all.

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Originally Posted by JR89

You're picking Doehrty at RB when Scotland have two players regularly starting at RB in the PL. Wouldn't have Doherty as a RB in the Irish best XI nevermind a combined team.

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Ben Doak cant even get a Scotland call up so I very much doubt he makes an Irish/Scotland comined team.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Ben Doak cant even get a Scotland call up so I very much doubt he makes an Irish/Scotland comined team.

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And Johnston is only playing for us cause he couldn't get a Scotland call up.

doherty isnt related to a defender. madness to have him in any combined xi. he is brutal.

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Originally Posted by JR89

And Johnston is only playing for us cause he couldn't get a Scotland call up.

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Did he tell you that? If he cant back himself to get ahead of Brown, Shankland, Dyke etc maybe he is a player even we are questioning the selection of.

Think you are missing the point though, if he cant make the Scotland squad then I doubt he's making a combined Irish/Scottish team.

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Originally Posted by JR89

You're picking Doehrty at RB when Scotland have two players regularly starting at RB in the PL. Wouldn't have Doherty as a RB in the Irish best XI nevermind a combined team.

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Agree on this his conditioning is embarrassing during the week losing the ball in forward areas and showing zero desire to get back.