Stephen Kenny

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I personally didnt think there was much vitriol in what he said. I think he has toned it town, I also think there is an element of superiority complex on this forum, yes he's a bit brash and yes he's a newbie and also yes he might be gone with Kenny but his points have substance behind them.

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No, wrong.

Kenny has had 25 games in charge. The 25 games prior to his appointment resulted in 7 wins, 10 draws, 13 defeats with 22 goals scored, 26 goals against. 5 of the 7 wins were competitive: Wales, Georgia, Moldova and Gibraltar twice.

Kenny's results are no worse than the above. It's not working at the moment and his job is on the line, but at least there's an attempt to be progressive and to improve our lot - which was totally absent with the previous, higher paid managers who did nothing bar bemoaning the lack of players.

"And prior to the Kenny nightmare regime, we were very close to qualifying for the Euro's. Instead of this myth of a rebuild, the next manager had good foundations to build on. A squad who competed strongly with Switzerland and Denmark added with some of the most exciting youngsters we've had coming through in a generation. Yes, many of them have to make a full break through but to turn this squad with great potential into an absolute shambles takes some doing."

Do you really agree with the substance of the above Paul? 2 wins against Gibraltar.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I personally didnt think there was much vitriol in what he said. I think he has toned it town, I also think there is an element of superiority complex on this forum, yes he's a bit brash and yes he's a newbie and also yes he might be gone with Kenny but his points have substance behind them.

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Also the people who called him a troll where absolutely wrong to say that

Felt like trolling to me at times tbh

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

Pros;
* We can retain possession as well as anyone else in terms of similar level teams when we try to, we're not that technically deficient that it's impossible as previous managers have maintained
* A much larger numbers of players than might otherwise have been expected have had a chance to either start or play a part in the squad
* Kenny showed he could make a big decision by leaving Coleman out in his early selections to favour Doherty
* We're still not conceding a whole lot
* We're having more shots and creating more opportunities that previous regime

Cons;
* No attempts to alter formation at any stage of games, even if plan A is not producing results
* Reluctance to drop other senior players for player more suited to the game plan (probably a fear that dropping too many senior players would alienate the squad)
* Manager can't seem to lift the confidence of the team, they may not be fully buying in
* Hard to see goals coming unless one of Idah, Parrot, Connolly or Robinson really catch fire between now and the world cup qualifiers

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Not much has changed since my first post on this thread posting this on 19/11/2020. Same issue with no plan B, lifting confidence and scoring goals. I guess that might be as damning as anything.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think such people aren't anywhere near as common as you seem to think though.

How many are on here, for example?

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I'm not sure that the proportion of LOI fans on here who think he should stay or go is very different, or even any different to those on here who are not particularly LOI fans.

I'm also a LOI fan who thinks Kenny is failing and have been pretty consistent in that I think.

The LOI fan argument here has been perpetuated by one hysterical, lunatic, soundbite machine who weakens their own credibility with each snide, carbon copy rant. And I'm on the same side as him.

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

It sometimes takes a lot for people to admit they were wrong. I would have been delighted if Kenny proved me wrong but unfortunately he hasn't. I'm glad you're able to accept your misjudgment, others are finding it harder to accept. Many with influential media positions unfortunately.

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It wasn't a misjudgment. It is not a misjudgment to believe in a vision and give time and grace for the person to get it right. I think I am changing course on Kenny at the right time. At a fair time. To have been calling for his head from early on, as you were, was over the top unreasonable.

For what its worth, supporting Kenny has been a bit of a rollercoaster. As someone who was around Dalymount Park when he was managing the team, I was well aware of some of the flaws of the man as a manager, including how personally he took success and defeat and emotional he could get. He seemed to have come a long way in the years since and he did well with the U21's. That said, when he was named as the "next man up" i was really skeptical. I remember saying it to others on here at the time and i wasnt the only one in that group. Then he started talking about what he saw as the future of the Irish playing style, which included his perspective on the past Irish style and some of our managers, and i started buying in. I was worried that he stepped into the job when he did - and couldn't understand why that decision was made at that time. I was all in though. We all (I think) want all our managers to do well and to take us forward. I was disappointed when i saw his first squad as there were only a handful of new names in there, youngsters. But, you know, its a transition, it will take time, you cant replace a full squad etc. There was the disappointment of Slovakia on penalties. There was the stupidity of a game away to England. There was the unrest and daggers out in the backroom. There was the chaos of squad instability due to covid (which i still believe would be more difficult for any new manager, especially one trying to build a new style and squad). But there were some positive signs too - we were playing a new way, a better way and sometimes it clicked. There was a good dash of youth and inexperience in there but there were signs. But that first chapter was really hard. By the time you get to Luxembourg home, i was ready for him to go. There are posts on here to back that up. At the very least he had to start turning it around. And he did. To the point where i started to really believe that he could take us forward. So i dug my heels in on here during that time especially. More goals, more points, more wins. Still some shakiness (as Pineapple often points out related to Serbia home, for example) but generally we were going in the right direction. I was definitely optimistic, but i think there was fair reason to be. The harshness of the criticism seemed unfair during that time. The skepticism i could understand but the criticism after positive results and wins was hard to comprehend. And then we had this week. The rollercoaster ride was on a big dip again!

O'Neill has his say -> https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022...o-win-matches/

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

O'Neill has his say -> https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022...o-win-matches/

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He's such a warm and likeable man

The tide seems to be turning against Kenny in the media now, which , to be fair, has given him an extremely easy ride thus far.

'Stephen Kenny’s explanations for Ireland results contradict reality':

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...adict-reality/

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Originally Posted by Trequartista20

The tide seems to be turning against Kenny in the media now, which , to be fair, has given him an extremely easy ride thus far.

'Stephen Kenny’s explanations for Ireland results contradict reality':

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...adict-reality/

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its misleading and kind of insulting to refer to international teams as "reserves". You could argue that the players we missed (coleman, doherty, bazunu) against Ukraine were more valuable to us than the players ukraine left out. the belgium "reserves" would pretty much all get into our team.

Since Emmet Malone moved on the standard of IT soccer reporting has plummeted. Its become quite tabloid like

More importantly

"In any contract, in terms of employment contract, there would be a provision in there for a point of which you exit,” said Jonathan Hill, the FAI chief executive last March. “That’s within Stephen’s contract. That was part of the to-ing and fro-ing [during negotiations]"

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

its misleading and kind of insulting to refer to international teams as "reserves". You could argue that the players we missed (coleman, doherty, bazunu) against Ukraine were more valuable to us than the players ukraine left out. the belgium "reserves" would pretty much all get into our team.

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I don't think it is. I think it's important to note that both sides made around 11 changes each for the game against us; it puts those results in context. It doesn't matter that the Belgium second string would all get into our team; it's more important here to nullify the argument (and I can't remember if Kenny himself has made this) that we drew against the number 1 side in the world. We just didn't. Ditto Ukraine - we didn't draw against the side who had just swept Scotland aside. The same goes for the game against Italy in Lille. Of course it's still three points for a win in the end of the day, and the draw against Belgium (reserves) was still an ok result, but if you're evaluating a manager, I think it's an important point to make because it's quite unusual to play games against such a changed side.

We've made the same point ourselves here.

I've been pro giving him a chance and a proper run of games but it is getting a bit ridiculous now.
Youd have to wonder has he lost the room with the players, he always had a bit of a credibility mountain to climb with some of them and players are normally happy to look for blame wherever they can find it but themselves

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

He's such a warm and likeable man

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Probably you were being sarcastic.
I found his comments to be condescending, not only to Stephen Kenny but to the solid players he had under his tenure. He not only refuses to take responsibility for his obvious failures when manager but pees on Kenny.
And I am/or was somebody who respected O'Neill.

Mon has The right to critize The current managers perfirmance, he has earned since got Ireland to France, should have beaten Sweden there, dont know later with Belgium and we outplayed both Italy and France, plus took The team to a playoff de should have beaten Serbia At home there.

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Originally Posted by Bielsa´s irish

Mon has The right to critize The current managers perfirmance, he has earned since got Ireland to France, should have beaten Sweden there, dont know later with Belgium and we outplayed both Italy and France, plus took The team to a playoff de should have beaten Serbia At home there.

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I see that you seemed to have discovered Twitter recently…do you ever get tired of it all?

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think such people aren't anywhere near as common as you seem to think though.

How many are on here, for example?

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There are plenty of LOI fans with no time for Kenny, if anything i think a lot of Kenny supporters just want to avoid going back to the Trap style football of the past and are happy to keep playing football and hope things get better.
I got to the point with Ireland that i stopped even watching the matches as i didn't care if we won or lost as the game we played was so limited that even if we lucked our way into a Euros or WC it would be an embarrassment and only good for the ole ole ole crowd who could get media coverage for helping old ladies across the road and being "the best fans in the world"

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Originally Posted by ifk101

No, wrong.

Kenny has had 25 games in charge. The 25 games prior to his appointment resulted in 7 wins, 10 draws, 13 defeats with 22 goals scored, 26 goals against. 5 of the 7 wins were competitive: Wales, Georgia, Moldova and Gibraltar twice.

Kenny's results are no worse than the above. It's not working at the moment and his job is on the line, but at least there's an attempt to be progressive and to improve our lot - which was totally absent with the previous, higher paid managers who did nothing bar bemoaning the lack of players.

"And prior to the Kenny nightmare regime, we were very close to qualifying for the Euro's. Instead of this myth of a rebuild, the next manager had good foundations to build on. A squad who competed strongly with Switzerland and Denmark added with some of the most exciting youngsters we've had coming through in a generation. Yes, many of them have to make a full break through but to turn this squad with great potential into an absolute shambles takes some doing."

Do you really agree with the substance of the above Paul? 2 wins against Gibraltar.

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You're including the end of the O Neill era in your stats, that was a disastrous time and O Neill was shown the door. Just like Kenny should be now. Then you are being selective with your '2 wins against Gibraltar'. McCarthy had 10 games in charge. His record was won 5, drawn 4 and lost 1. That defeat was to the European championship semi finalists away from home. We should have beaten Denmark in McCarthy's last game with a performance that Kenny hasn't come close to. If Kenny even came close to McCarthy's record, some of his diehards would be erecting statues of him already. We've gone seriously downhill since Kenny took over, no selective stats can cover that.

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

You're including the end of the O Neill era in your stats, that was a disastrous time and O Neill was shown the door. Just like Kenny should be now. Then you are being selective with your '2 wins against Gibraltar'. McCarthy had 10 games in charge. His record was won 5, drawn 4 and lost 1. That defeat was to the European championship semi finalists away from home. We should have beaten Denmark in McCarthy's last game with a performance that Kenny hasn't come close to. If Kenny even came close to McCarthy's record, some of his diehards would be erecting statues of him already. We've gone seriously downhill since Kenny took over, no selective stats can cover that.

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we were hopeless against denmark apart from the final 10 mins. the re-writing of that game has been something else. they had no interest in winning that game came for a draw and left with one