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That they are powerful but unintelligent and undisciplined? I don't think I've ever heard anything like that. Direct maybe, hardworking maybe, physical definitely but none of those terms juxtaposed with mental capacity or another race in an unfavourable way. I wouldn't like it if it was said about Irish football players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I'd rather keep the current team in charge than those options tbh. I want someone who knows our players, not someone with pre conceived notions of Little Ireland like Trap. Maybe I'm just burned out on the whole thing but whoever it is at this point I can't wait for it to be over and we can move on to picking apart the man's every decision and blaming him for all the woes of Irish footballQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
With Andersson his age and the fact he's never managed outside Sweden I don't think he'd be open to it. I don't see him being as open to the new job specs that the FAI want from the new head coach.
As for Willy Sagnol, even if he has plans to leave Georgia after this campaign I don't see him being in talks but talks so detailed that you've agreed terms while still in contention for the Euros.
As for Gus Poyet, if it was him we'd know about it because he'd have announced it himself or leaked it to the papers.
Sagnol is a racist - and to me it’s shocking that just after dumping the idea of hiring a man who threatened and intimidated a woman, the FAI are now apparently considering hiring a racist to run an international team with numerous black players in the squad.
There is a reason why Sagnol didn’t have a job for four years before getting the Georgia gig.
If looking for potential groundswell of support for JOS coming into being, interesting framing on this RTE article: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024...e-for-ireland/
"John O'Shea offered the Ireland fans a glimpse of what the future could be like if the former Manchester United man was handed the permanent position as national team manager."
Would definitely rule him out for me anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
That they're cheap, physically developed, will give their all, but generally extremely technically limited. A few other stereotypes still kicking around as well even to this day, but not as prevalent as they used to be thankfully.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
I'm not defending Sagnol's comments by the way, he absolutely shouldn't have said them. Just pointing out that similar views exist of ourselves.
Can be more than a hint of truth to those stereotypes too. The old "British football style" comments we hear about the national team too. We mightn't like them, but it doesn't mean they're wrong or even that we have a right to offence at them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Ffs lads let's not equate the Irish stereotype of hard working players and say it's similar to Africa. Firstly there are 54 individual countries in Africa so don't lump them all in as one, and more importantly as a continent Africa has produced some of the best players the world has ever seen. Anyone that says there is a stereotypical African player is a fcuking racist plain and simple
Ah look I'm not saying you are at all. Just saying there's a way to interpret his words, the ones I picked out rather than the ones you have above, that makes them very similar to the typical racist tropes you hear. Adding in the Nordic reference makes it pretty clear to me where he is coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
It would turn me off the idea of him as manager. If it's even an idea...I've lost track of who is actually in the running versus who is a fever dream born out of our collective boredom.
And I could be very wrong here now but I doubt there are many African migrants inwards for an old Soviet Union member country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
I don't think there are any players of African heritage in the current Georgia squad.
Whether there were any players of African heritage in the Georgia squad before Sagnol became manager might be a more instructive question to have answered. Again, I don't think so.
On the contrary - I think an interesting issue that arose with scouting for African players back in the early days of football globalisation is that scouts went looking for a particular type of player. I think it was the big physical striker - the Didier Drogba style player. But because that's what they were looking for - and what the clubs wanted/expected - that's what they found. They would have passed over technical midfielders, keepers, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
So it's entirely possible Sagnol's comments had some basis in fact. (I've no idea obviously) Often it's easier to take offence and dismiss someone as racist, but that doesn't mean it's correct. And I'm not saying it's not correct either. Just a bit of nuance can't do any harm.
The comments about the AFCON seem fine to me; other managers have made similar complaints.
For me, elatedscum's analysis of Sagnol's career is far more pertinent in terms of whether we want him as manager
Nothing wrong with the AFCON comments but if you are still talking about a stereotypical African player in this day and age Ron Atkinson would love a pint and a chat with you
But you've ignored my post. I'm suggesting that while there mayn't be such a thing as a stereotypical African player, there quite possibly was such a thing as a stereotypical African player who came through a scouting mechanism looking for a specific type of player.
Surly anyone who uses the "nordic" is into White supremacy!
No, I didnt ignore your post, I dismissed your post as the bullsh1t it is. Any supposed stereotype of African players has come from racism. You can potentially say a certain country is stereotyped based on a style of football over the years , you can't do that for an entire Continent unless you lump them all together as one. How can you say Jay Jay Okocha is a similar Stereotype to Drogba, or George Weah to Salah. Players from there are as diverse as 54 different countries would be anywhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
If you are trying to make the argument that scouts today have an African player type in mind I think that says more about you than the football world at large
Suggesting it based on what ?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
What you're saying bears no relation to what Sagnol actually did say & this scouting scenario you're putting up as to why he'd say it, well its news to me.
Seems a pretty oblique defensive angle to take on all this
rather than just call it out as wrong, offensive and hurtful. Which is what it was.
& it begs the question why you would seek ways of defending him on it also.
I’m sure you’ve all googled it by now like I have. He apologized for his comments so they were obviously wrong.
The apology itself was a bit ham-fisted but he gave additional context to his words - in particular that his reference to intelligence was meant in a footballing sense rather than a racial or ethnic sense. His argument being that the youth coaching infrastructure there is not to par with what you’d get elsewhere (he used the Scandinavian system as a comparator) therefore the younger African players need that type of development when they’re signed. His opinion has a certain logic to it that I don’t think is racist. But how he said it originally was brutal and he rightly got called out on it.
I think you've being too nice
My take is he is saying African players are strong but thick
Nordic re white people are the smart players. His "clarification" was I guess to save his backside
I'd be very disappointed if we hired him. What kind of message would it send to our black players and to our African community as a whole.
That's pretty much it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Window dress it / rephrase it / revise it / clutch at straws to justify it all they like.
You know exactly what you're fu cking saying when you cite Nordic people over African ones.