Stephen Kenny

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

After two and half years, and 25 games, in charge, Kenny really should not be "experimenting". He should know his players, their strengths and weaknesses, and how to get the best out of them.
At the very least he should have a plan for attempting a comeback that's better than "push Shane Duffy up front"

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I completely, fundamentally disagree with this. Experimentation should never end. Just because you know your players doesn't mean that there isn't someone new coming through who can offer something different. One new player becoming available can open up new ways of playing for the entire team.

At this stage Kenny should know his best 11, which i don't believe he does, but he should also be using games like last night to try different approaches etc. Because he doesn't know what his best team is guys get caps just so he can get another look at them. A case in point was last night when a Alan Browne, a midfielder, got a cap coming on as a right wing back.

Festy Ebosele should have been given his debut when Christie came off, but instead we had another look at a round peg being hammered into a square hole.

I couldn't believe Browne coming on right wing back. I thought Hendrick looked off it. He looked like he was missing trusted outlets and players he could click with - like he does Doherty. I thought Browne was on for Hendrick. Browne looked lost right wing back.

I don't get the introduction of Cj Hamilton when chasing a goal. Didn't Parrott pull one out of the fire recently for Kenny? Hamilton didn't do terrible and created a chance but that confused me.

Starting Stevens again also confused me. McClean has been a trusted lieutenant. He should have started. Stevens was dreadful against Armenia. Really bad. He was as bad last night.

So many strange decisions that concern me. Even though I have backed Kenny so far.

Obafemi has to start on Saturday, by the way.

T

but they're not strange decisions, they're poor decisions.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

I couldn't believe Browne coming on right wing back.

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It felt a bit like the changes in the Denmark playoff game (Hoolahan and McGeady on, but at the complete cost of shape)

Maybe I'm reading too much into it because the Kenny tenure has been tending towards that level of chaos anyway, but that's the comparison that came to mind when the sub was made.

On the Browne switch, while it was a surprise, he has played there and had some success at club level. See here for an example shortly after the Slovakia playoff game; https://www.balls.ie/football/alan-b...erclass-452033 and here https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55944387, seems he played there quiet a bit under Alex Neil.

RE Ofafemi yes start the man, but he needs a 10 to play him in behind No?

maybe Parrott?

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

We also need to be wary of the goalposts getting moved for Kenny. I'm seeing this sentiment that if he gets four points from the next two games he'll be fine, but that would be four from 12 if it even happened. At what point before 2200 last night was that outcome deemed acceptable? If they lose to Scotland will it then be a win needed in Poland? If they draw that game will it be called an improvement?

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Say we fluke a win over a likely understrength Scotland - what does that actually change?

Kenny's been in charge for 26 months and 25 matches: the verdict's in; he's just not up to it. We've all seen more than enough, now, to know that, however decent a bloke he might be, Kenny's just not adequately equipped for this job.

We were desperately poor in Yerevan, turning in a disjointed, tepid, uninspired performance in which it became abundantly clear quite early on that, in terms of both selection and tactics, it wasn't working. And Kenny just didn't react. When the changes did come, we were already a goal down and they proved to be far too late, panicky, ill thought through and, ultimately, ineffectual - the game ending with the unedifying spectacle of a succession of hopeful balls launched into the box in the hopes that maybe centre-forward Duffy could get his head to something.

Incredibly, Kenny saw all this and made only one unenforced change for last night's game, proceeding to make exactly the same mistakes all over again! All of this leading, funnily enough, to exactly the same result.

If you can't even identify the problems, let alone work out a way to fix them, and seem utterly incapable of learning from what seem obvious previous mistakes, well I'm afraid it's time to admit that it's a hopeless cause, draw a line under the whole thing and move in another direction.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

We already know now that Duffy went against the game plan meaning it’s time for Kenny to be ruthless...

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Point of information. He didn't say Duffy went against the gameplan. What he said was: "Both teams pressed each other high, we were both playing the same system and it was man-to-man really. Shane went long a lot when he seen space and sometimes he got joy from it when Chio [Ogbene] went one-on-on. We're used to building. Matt Doherty at times is like a playmaker for us, taking the ball in a low block and building through the midfield. We just have to show a little bit more composure in our build and build better than we did at times. But I can't fault the players, they left everything out there."

I think Kenny can reasonably complain that the referee was a bit soft on Ukraine, but he won't say/hasn't said it. They got away with disrupting our game a lot and should have had more than one yellow card really. It allowed them to keep growing into the game as time went on in the second half, controlling the momentum and frustrating our lads. That said, he appeared to be a bit too slow to change the approach/personnel during the game. We had lots of chances, but a lot of poor decision-making in the final third. I think he is under pressure, but a result and positive display against Scotland will change the tone again.

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Originally Posted by Predator

I think he is under pressure, but a result and positive display against Scotland will change the tone again.

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A draw against Scotland is only papering over the obvious cracks. The reality is that Kenny has achieved absolutely nothing in his time as Irish manager and it is beyond obvious that he not up to it. We are in freefall under him. Then again what did the FAI expect? Hire a manager that was clearly never up to it and these are the end results. The sooner he gets booted out the better.

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

On the Browne switch, while it was a surprise, he has played there and had some success at club level. See here for an example shortly after the Slovakia playoff game; https://www.balls.ie/football/alan-b...erclass-452033 and here https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55944387, seems he played there quiet a bit under Alex Neil.

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Fair enough. It is easy for me to criticize after the fact. But we needed pace on that right hand side. Which is probably why we brought on Hamilton there...

Hamilton did ok I thought, though I was surprised to see a debutant come on when we were chasing the game (and possibly Kenny's job). Nothing spectacular, but he did at least beat his man on one occasion with a nice shimmy, which is more than we'd managed most of the evening.

We're like a rugby team at the moment, I think that's what it's reminding me of anyway. It's all lateral or straight balls and it's too easy to defend against. It's like a rugby team just going through the hands, losing 15 yards and then kicking it up the line. Without a line break there's no way to make ground and disrupt the defence. There's a few ways to do that on the football pitch, either quick diagonal balls between or over the lines, or to beat a man one on one. We don't do either one nearly enough. It's where Doherty is badly missed because he can carry the ball from deep, through the lines and he can beat a man further forward. Only Knight really offered anything like that in terms of taking on his man, and that was mainly early on. I though O'Shea looked a bit better on the ball than Egan when he came in and he showed some willingness to carry the ball into the space in front of him, Collins tried it a few times too but I think that's the kind of break we need more of. Neither Cullen nor Hendrick really carried the ball forward, Hendrick does have a nice slide rule pass that can get between the lines sometimes, but it gets cut out a lot, especially as he tires and as much as I like Cullen, he rarely carries the ball forward. It's too easy to defend when it's just lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle, lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle. It's a shame McGrath got no game time at Wigan and Ronan got injured, because at least they offer that bit more ambition and creativity with the ball.

Yep, the "gain line" in rugby is a good analogy. We don't have a player who can consistently improve our pitch position.

In footy you can either pass your way through opponents' lines or carry the ball through. Doc is good at the latter. McGeady in Lille is a great example of carrying it through the middle. O'Dowda was able to do it from time to time.

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

We're like a rugby team at the moment, I think that's what it's reminding me of anyway. It's all lateral or straight balls and it's too easy to defend against. It's like a rugby team just going through the hands, losing 15 yards and then kicking it up the line. Without a line break there's no way to make ground and disrupt the defence. There's a few ways to do that on the football pitch, either quick diagonal balls between or over the lines, or to beat a man one on one. We don't do either one nearly enough. It's where Doherty is badly missed because he can carry the ball from deep, through the lines and he can beat a man further forward. Only Knight really offered anything like that in terms of taking on his man, and that was mainly early on. I though O'Shea looked a bit better on the ball than Egan when he came in and he showed some willingness to carry the ball into the space in front of him, Collins tried it a few times too but I think that's the kind of break we need more of. Neither Cullen nor Hendrick really carried the ball forward, Hendrick does have a nice slide rule pass that can get between the lines sometimes, but it gets cut out a lot, especially as he tires and as much as I like Cullen, he rarely carries the ball forward. It's too easy to defend when it's just lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle, lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle. It's a shame McGrath got no game time at Wigan and Ronan got injured, because at least they offer that bit more ambition and creativity with the ball.

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We play like Bohs have played for the last 18 months. Recycle backwards and across, slow the game down, play well sometimes but ultimately ineffective and don't win.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Yep, the "gain line" in rugby is a good analogy. We don't have a player who can consistently improve our pitch position.

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I thought Knight did a bit of that last night, but just about every time he didn't have a good option to keep the play moving forward.

I felt sorry for Knight yesterday, he didn't seem to have a defined role. He has terrific energy and enthusiasm, but it felt like he was trying to do too much. There was an air of desperation in the way we played and Knight's involvement seemed to sum the whole thing up.

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

We're like a rugby team at the moment, I think that's what it's reminding me of anyway. It's all lateral or straight balls and it's too easy to defend against. It's like a rugby team just going through the hands, losing 15 yards and then kicking it up the line. Without a line break there's no way to make ground and disrupt the defence. There's a few ways to do that on the football pitch, either quick diagonal balls between or over the lines, or to beat a man one on one. We don't do either one nearly enough. It's where Doherty is badly missed because he can carry the ball from deep, through the lines and he can beat a man further forward. Only Knight really offered anything like that in terms of taking on his man, and that was mainly early on. I though O'Shea looked a bit better on the ball than Egan when he came in and he showed some willingness to carry the ball into the space in front of him, Collins tried it a few times too but I think that's the kind of break we need more of. Neither Cullen nor Hendrick really carried the ball forward, Hendrick does have a nice slide rule pass that can get between the lines sometimes, but it gets cut out a lot, especially as he tires and as much as I like Cullen, he rarely carries the ball forward. It's too easy to defend when it's just lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle, lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle. It's a shame McGrath got no game time at Wigan and Ronan got injured, because at least they offer that bit more ambition and creativity with the ball.

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I would say its more Gaelic Football. Its brutal boring and slows the game right down, except in Gaelic football you are now forced into it because you get 15 men running back behind the ball before you get a chance to counter, whereas in Irelands case we turn, wait and hold up the ball till someone else comes running up and then the opposition get to regroup and reshape. Its definitely more gaa than rugby but without the option of a long range shot over the bar :)

Kenny hasn't made the best out of the squad but it's undoubtedly the poorest midfield we've ever had and we have had some. I said it from the beginning that we didn't have the quality at centre midfield to play Kenny's game with 3 central defenders and 2 wing backs. I see there's a team selected for the next game with McClean starting, there is no manager in the world who can transform McClean into an intl standard player at this stage of his career.

I have mixed feeling about Kenny, because apart from the back 5 + goalie we have a certified mixture of past its, not good enoughs or still learning the trade, though I appreciate what Kenny tried to do with this team. When Trap started out he ditched any notions of playing it through midfield, he claimed we were not good enough, however he had a good spine to begin with (Duff, Keane, Dunne, O'Shea, Given) and added on players with the ability to do what he wanted them to do.
Kenny hasn't managed that feat to build such a team in his image, I doubt anyone could. NI had Steven Davis, singularly the most important player for them for 15 years and now that he's edging towards 40, NI are on the slide.

Im absolutely fed up today. I'll speak for myself but I think a lot on here will agree with me, the reason we wanted Kenny to work was because of how he spoke about us being able to get on the ball and play football while being competitive. We've had years and years of managers showing up for a paycheck while telling us that our players werent good enough. You could see that this was seeping into even the match going crowd as the attendances were way down until Kenny took over. Suddenly there seemed like the was new life in Lansdowne and it really felt like the dawn of a brave new era. There has been a bull$hit narrative spun in places that the reason we were all backing Kenny is because of the LOI angle. It has nothing to do with that in most cases, for me it was down to comments like "if a player is good enough they will be fast tracked into team ahead of more experienced players".

If Mick McCarthy was still in charge Darren Randolph would still be our goal keeper. Kenny has made good decisions in players that he has moved out and new ones brought in. We have gone from having games where we only had about 25% possession to 60%. The problem is that we break down in final 3rd not knowing what to do with that possession, but even with that I kept telling myself that will come good because we have exciting young players on the verge up front. I still believe that, I think that out of Idah, Parrott, Obafemi, Ferguson, Mipo and even Aaron Connolly we have players that will transform us in the final 3rd of the pitch. Yesterday we basically had 2 wingers playing up front and you could see they are not natural strikers, it was so frustrating to see poor decisions over and over causing good build up play by the likes of Knight breaking down. Annoyingly he didnt make changes until far too late and that is why Im questioning him now. His subs have been poor in a lot of games but I was losing my mind yesterday watching the 2nd half with nothing being done.

When he brought on Alan Browne on the right, that was when I wondered if the brave talk of bring on a good young player was being eroded in his head by the pressure of the job. It was the conservative, safe option that the like of Trap or O'Neill would have done instead of using the opportunity to have a look at Ebosele.

All that being said, we are only 2 games removed from being delighted with how things were going. We were on 8 game unbeaten streak while having some very good performances. This time of year is when we used to have a US tour with half the squad missing and the likes of Joe Lapria getting a game. Maybe some of the players have their head on the beach. I think Saturday we should go balls to the wall with every younger player possible. Lets see what Obafemi and Parrott as a partnership up front can do. A midfield of Knight, Cullen and Molumby would have energy. We need to try get a spark from somewhere.

I thought for the 1st time yesterday that Kenny is not the man for the job, but the alternatives of Houghton, Allardyce, Roy, Mick, Lennon etc would make me wanna vomit. If Kenny can learn from his mistakes he can still redeem this, I have my doubts now but I dont want to have a summer of us looking for new manager either.