Lisbon Treaty

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I voted no last time, but one of the few things i liked was the streamlining of commissionaires, and I think its pretty stoopid to have one per country

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Ran into a Yes man last week, reading Naoise Nunn's turncoat view in one of the broadsheet's. He has bought the "clarifications" argument, and is happy to vote for the government on the day. :rolleyes:

Nothing on the commissioner issue has been clarified or changed. A state's commissioner has been guaranteed for the coming 5 year term, but can (and probably will) then be changed back to the original arrangements next time. So, the original idea that a state will have one on the board for 2 out of every 3 terms as per the issue we voted on last year, is still standing.

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Originally Posted by mypost

So, the original idea that a state will have one on the board for 2 out of every 3 terms as per the issue we voted on last year, is still standing.

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If this is true, then I hope it stays because the commissioner argument was one of the stupidest ones I heard. Mary Lou made it sound as if Ireland was solely being discriminated against when it came to the commissioner changes and I felt like banging my head against a wall everytime I heard her.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

If this is true, then I hope it stays because the commissioner argument was one of the stupidest ones I heard. Mary Lou made it sound as if Ireland was solely being discriminated against when it came to the commissioner changes and I felt like banging my head against a wall everytime I heard her.

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No need to stop, please continue:p

"It's the economy stupid." Apparantly...

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/le...n-1848852.html

Poor voter obviously hasn't realised that the treaty is not about economics, but merely to "streamline the decision-making process in the EU"

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/le...k-1848850.html

She may be under the illusion that Lisbon is our economic recovery plan. However, Walkinstown is in a staunch No constituency, which had a 60% rejection of the treaty last year. The majority of the people there also know what side their bread is buttered on too.

Another obstacle put in front of the No side:

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-n...s-1851757.html

I'm sure RTE will take full advantage.

I hear the Government saying it's the first step out of the recession and I think to myself - hold on a minute -The Recession was here before we voted No so how could voting yes make any difference?

The Truth is it wont.

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Originally Posted by jay1

I hear the Government saying it's the first step out of the recession

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Where did they say that?

Even by Sinn Fein standards this isn't very convincing: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking39.htm

It's more convincing than the numerous lobby groups who are all cosying up to support the government.

Really? Given that Sinn Fein have predicted dire consequences for every European vote ever and have been totally wrong each and every time?

And that they're allied with far-left nutjobs on the European scene yet preach about economics?

At least they didn't give out about militarisation this time round, that one's always good for a laugh.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Really? Given that Sinn Fein have predicted dire consequences for every European vote ever and have been totally wrong each and every time?

And that they're allied with far-left nutjobs on the European scene yet preach about economics?

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The treaty is a) nothing to do with economics, and b) not a history lesson.

It is about how the EU (Ireland included) will be governed in the future, and have decisions made for us, without our consent if needs be, regardless of our circumstances. It creates a permanent political union, ruled by a self-amending document. That poses a very worrying future for this country.

The only answer for that is to reject it, and have the EU continue as is.

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Originally Posted by mypost

The treaty is a) nothing to do with economics, and b) not a history lesson.

It is about how the EU (Ireland included) will be governed in the future, and have decisions made for us, without our consent if needs be, regardless of our circumstances. It creates a permanent political union, ruled by a self-amending document. That poses a very worrying future for this country.

The only answer for that is to reject it, and have the EU continue as is.

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Define the emboldened bit further please if you would.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Another obstacle put in front of the No side:

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-n...s-1851757.html

I'm sure RTE will take full advantage.

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Don't really see how it could be defined as an 'obstacle'. As Sinn Fein are the only party with elected representatives who actually oppose Lisbon, they in tandem with Joe Higgins could simply refuse to appear on panel discussions or to provide any other commentary on whatever media and could shut down discussion of the topic altogether.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Don't really see how it could be defined as an 'obstacle'. As Sinn Fein are the only party with elected representatives who actually oppose Lisbon, they in tandem with Joe Higgins could simply refuse to appear on panel discussions or to provide any other commentary on whatever media and could shut down discussion of the topic altogether.

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There are a trainload of new and old lobby groups of various names lining up to support the government on polling day. As RTE don't have to give equal airtime to both sides, the Yes side will now have the majority of the coverage to make their case.

Meanwhile...

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/an...s-1861619.html

Mickey Martin's response

Love this line:

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I want us to be a strong team player in the unique league of democratic, like-minded nations that is the European Union.

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Translation: "I want more power for me". :D

More warnings this time from the head of Concern, Tom Arnold:

What are they? War? Famine? Earthquake? Eh no, sulking instead.

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Another No vote would result in “a marginalisation of influence and a loss of goodwill” towards Ireland within the EU.

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http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...253137934.html

I can stand some sulking from a minority in Brussels if it means that the EU remains ruled by the Nice Treaty, and Ireland retains the little power and influence it currently has, Tom.

O'Leary sticks his nose in :mad:

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Ryanair has said it will spend “more than €500,000” campaigning for a Yes vote in the October 2nd referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

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http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking60.htm

That €500k would be far better spent on opening new routes, maintaining check-in desks, improving his customer care services, and saving jobs in his own firm.

He might be in for a surprise though in 6 weeks time.

Why is it "sticking their nose in" when business people get involved in the Yes campaign, yet you have nothing to say when BUSINESSMAN Declan Ganley and BUSINESSMAN Ullick McEvaddy lead the no campaign? :rolleyes:

McEvaddy is a minor player for the No side.

If the figures that Ryanair are "spending" are true on it, it's a slap in the face to Ryanair staff who lose their jobs because of the downturn. But it proves the theory that businessmen have "more money than sense".

O'Leary coming out as a "Yes", has gone a long way to secure a No vote, imo. O'Leary is anti workers rights, and the Government still hasn't put in place the protections for workers promised after the last no vote.