Player eligibility row

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Originally Posted by ifk101

2010.
Albania 1 - 0 Northern Ireland
Montenegro 2 - 0 Northern Ireland

Summer Tour
Turkey 2 - 0 Northern Ireland
Chile 1 - 0 Northern Ireland

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You do know what 'invariably' means, I hope? We're poor away from home, but when it matters we beat minnows and often draw with stronger teams.

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Yeah I think I did write that. Obviously I can't guarantee something that falls outside my control but I've seen enough of the Faroes under Brian Kerr to know that a team that can't score goals will struggle against them

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Maybe you should watch more closely. The Faroes almost always lose, so even a weak NI will be favorite to scrape home.

WC qualifying:

NI 4-3-3-13-9-15
FO 1-1-8-5-20-4

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I'm certainly glad we didn't get drawn against them

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Fine, I think we can agree they're stronger than Andorra or San Marino.

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But anyways I'm sure I told you that Montenegro were a stronger team than NI, which you dismissed

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Based on comparable record I was right. We got 15 points, they only managed nine.

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Don't think NI had a shot on goals against them in the recent friendly

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We had four or five on target. Stop posting nonsense.

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

I guess it just strikes me as funny that some English seem appalled that Arteta could play for England when he's been living there for five years, has an English wife, etc...whereas Hargreaves has only been there three years or so. Sure there's more to nationality than time spent in a country, I just find it interesting that Hargreaves was never difficult for them to swallow, but Arteta is.

Goes back to the search for pure blood I guess, haha.

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What's the supposed issue with Hargreaves? His Dad is English. No question at all he qualfies for England. It doesn't matter if he never lived there.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

You do know what 'invariably' means, I hope?

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Of course not. :bigsmile:

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Originally Posted by Gather round

We're poor away from home, but when it matters we beat minnows and often draw with stronger teams.

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The only competitive away wins in the last 10 or so odd years have been against San Marino, Malta and Liechtenstein. Away defeats were recorded against the minnows of Iceland and Latvia during NI's arguably most successful qualification campaign in recent decades. Away draws against stronger nations have mostly come towards the end of qualification campaigns when the opposition are going through the motions of fulfilling a fixture. The away draw against Denmark was played early in a qualification campaign but if I recall that was a "backs to the wall" performance from NI but agree that it was a fanastic result for NI and a disappointing result for the Danes (and a qualification campaign on the whole that the Danes want to forget).

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Maybe you should watch more closely. The Faroes almost always lose, so even a weak NI will be favorite to scrape home.

WC qualifying:

NI 4-3-3-13-9-15
FO 1-1-8-5-20-4

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NI will be favourities of course. But l'm confident that the Faroes will give a good account of themselves against NI. Both France and Serbia had to dig deep for their away wins against them and the Faroes did, in their most recent competitive home game, record a win against Lithuania, who are ranked higher than NI in the FIFA ranking table.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Based on comparable record I was right. We got 15 points, they only managed nine.

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But you weren't playing the same opposition. When NI finally got to play Montenegro, NI were soundly beaten.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

We had four or five on target. Stop posting nonsense.

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The words "rarely troubled" describe Montenegro's goalie's performance against NI.

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Originally Posted by Nedser

What's the supposed issue with Hargreaves? His Dad is English. No question at all he qualfies for England. It doesn't matter if he never lived there.

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One issue is that he played regularly for Wales's youth teams, then moved to England's U-21. He also qualified for Canada and lived in Germany for long enough to qualify under the current rules, had he not chosen England.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Away draws against stronger nations have mostly come towards the end of qualification campaigns when the opposition are going through the motions

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Not true for the Poland game last time, nor that against Sweden in Euro 2008 (your neighbors only qualified in the last game of 12). And while the Czechs were below par when we played them, qualifiers are never completely irrelevant. I mean, there are seeding points to be earned.

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NI will be favourities of course. But l'm confident that the Faroes will give a good account of themselves...Faroes did record a home win against Lithuania, who are ranked higher than NI in the FIFA ranking table

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Indeed, We certainly won't under-estimate them and would be quite pleased with a narrow win.

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But you weren't playing the same opposition. When NI finally got to play Montenegro, NI were soundly beaten

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We were playing in a group of roughly equal standard, including a team that finished 12 points ahead of you in previous qualifying. Clearly we were better in qualifying, they beat us comfortably in a one-off friendly. Unless, according to your warped logic, Montenegro's two draws make them as good as the RoI despite finishing nine points behind.

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The words "rarely troubled" describe Montenegro's goalie's performance against NI

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Didn't see it, did you? Their keeper made three excellent saves.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

One issue is that he played regularly for Wales's youth teams, then moved to England's U-21. He also qualified for Canada and lived in Germany for long enough to qualify under the current rules, had he not chosen England.

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Yeah but one person said Hargreaves doesn't qualify for England under the new rules and someone else can't see the distinction between Hargreaves and Arteta.

What you say is correct AFAIK but none of it would mean he's ineligible for England.

Hargreaves doesn't qualify as homegrown for the new 25-man squad requirement - there's no question he doesn't qualfiy for the national team.

I think John Barnes would be a better comparison to Arteta. England fans never had a problem accepting him, presumably because he came from an English-speaking country and picked up an English accent very quickly. Most people are probably not aware that he didn't set foot in England until he was 16.

All this is fascinating, but the North are even more mediocre than Ireland away from home.
It's nothing to do with seeding points in either case, but invariably grabbing a goal and/or holding out against their goal(s) being under siege and hanging on for dear life. Yet another reason why a UI team could hardly do any worse....

One last point, Montenegro, a new country and FIFA member, will prove themselves to be better than the North in the longer term. And the basis of their two draws last time round., maybe the proper Ireland team also.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Hargreaves doesn't qualify as homegrown for the new 25-man squad requirement - there's no question he doesn't qualfiy for the national team.

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Thanks for clarifying. Completely different issue though as you say as that has nothing to do with nationality.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I think John Barnes would be a better comparison to Arteta. England fans never had a problem accepting him, presumably because he came from an English-speaking country and picked up an English accent very quickly. Most people are probably not aware that he didn't set foot in England until he was 16.

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English accent?! Have you heard him speak?

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Not true for the Poland game last time, nor that against Sweden in Euro 2008 (your neighbors only qualified in the last game of 12). And while the Czechs were below par when we played them, qualifiers are never completely irrelevant. I mean, there are seeding points to be earned.

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When NI played Sweden away, Sweden only needed 3 points from their last 3 games to qualify. I know they expected to confirm qualification the night they played NI at home and duly went through the motions in the expectation that they would win with the minimum of effort. NI punished them accordingly but really should have won given Sweden's disinterest. Poland and the Czechs were pretty much out of the reckoning when they played NI.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

We were playing in a group of roughly equal standard, including a team that finished 12 points ahead of you in previous qualifying. Clearly we were better in qualifying, they beat us comfortably in a one-off friendly. Unless, according to your warped logic, Montenegro's two draws make them as good as the RoI despite finishing nine points behind.

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What seeding did Montenegro have? They didn't enter the qualification process on a similar footing to NI. The game and result between the two sides speaks for itself.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Didn't see it, did you?

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Ireland A were playing.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Their keeper made three excellent saves.

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It wasn't my description of their goalie's performance.

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Originally Posted by macdermesser

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...d=592799131001

I wonder what Matt Holland and Andy Townsend think of Roy's sentiments?

(I would like to have heard a bit more of the Owen Coyle interview - from the clip it sounds as if he was an opportunist who decided to play for us - actually come to think of it .. Steve Bruce qualified to play for us too .. Irish interest in all three managers interviewed)

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Owen's decision to declare for us has already been documented here.
There were 2 letters of invitations on his kitchen table at the same time, one from Scotland and one from Ireland, to join up with the relevant u21 squads. For him it was a no brainer and he chose Ireland, his first u21 game was lining out against Scotland.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

invariably grabbing a goal and/or holding out against their goal(s) being under siege and hanging on for dear life

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Aye, as IFK said we invariably lose except when we don't. Good value for those draws, although admittedly against Denmark the home side may have been distracted by the giant blow-up doll behind our goal.

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Yet another reason why a UI team could hardly do any worse....

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Zzz. You've already got a united Ireland plus English and Scottish guest players, yet you think it's likely to fall behind Montenegro in future? Stop posting nonsense.

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One last point, Montenegro, a new country and FIFA member, will prove themselves to be better than the North in the longer term

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If you're going to judge them on WC qualifying, they won one game. Let's see how they get on this time.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

NI punished them accordingly but really should have won given Sweden's disinterest

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Ha ha. Another game you didn't watch, clearly. The draw was a fair result. In any case, with NI widely regarded as out of the reckoning after losing to Iceland and Latvia, the Svens should have won given our disinterest.

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Poland and the Czechs were pretty much out of the reckoning when they played NI

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The Poles weren't- they still had four of their eight significant games left. Excluding San Marino, with due respect to their slight improvement in Euro 08.

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What seeding did Montenegro have? They didn't enter the qualification process on a similar footing to NI. The game and result between the two sides speaks for itself

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Spare us the rhetorical flourishes. Everyone enters qualification on the same basis; everyone played eight or 10 games; Montenegro managed one win against similarly mediocre opposition to that in the other groups. The game between us and them was a one-off friendly which speaks for very little compared to a whole qulifying series. Your suggestion that the RoI-Montenegro group was somehow more difficult than the others is a bit silly. They, Georgia and Cyprus won three games out of 30 between them. Hardly World-beaters. As for the rest, it's luck of the draw.

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Ireland A were playing

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Get some new material. With you as Goteborg's top comedian it's little wonder the suicide rate's so high.

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It wasn't my description of their goalie's performance

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We know that. It was still wrong.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Aye, as IFK said we invariably lose except when we don't. Good value for those draws, although admittedly against Denmark the home side may have been distracted by the giant blow-up doll behind our goal.



Zzz. You've already got a united Ireland plus English and Scottish guest players, yet you think it's likely to fall behind Montenegro in future? Stop posting nonsense.



If you're going to judge them on WC qualifying, they won one game. Let's see how they get on this time.

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Why do you have to go and spoil a reasonably argued post with pathetic hypocritical sniping at the fact that a small minority of our players weren't born in Ireland?

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Originally Posted by Nedser

English accent?! Have you heard him speak?

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He has like a half-and-half accent. Maybe I'm just mental.

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Originally Posted by boovidge

Why do you have to go and spoil a reasonably argued post with pathetic hypocritical sniping at the fact that a small minority of our players weren't born in Ireland?

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Lighten up, Boo. I'm merely coming down to Ardee Troll and IFK's wind-up level to answer them. Nor is it hypocritical- I'm not saying you shouldn't have British players in your squad, if they are eligible.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Ha ha. Another game you didn't watch, clearly. The draw was a fair result.

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Whether the draw was a fair result or not is irrelevant to the point I'm making which was Sweden underperformed on the night. Given my location, you can assume that I have seen Sweden play on countless more occasions than you so you can also assume that I'm the better judge of whether they underperformed or not. Regardless the main factual piece of information that's not subjective is that Sweden only needed 3 points from their remaining 3 games and the Swedish FA had made preparations for a "qualification party" on the night of the NI game.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

The Poles weren't- they still had four of their eight significant games left. Excluding San Marino, with due respect to their slight improvement in Euro 08.

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Hence the use of the phrase "pretty much out of the reckoning".

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Spare us the rhetorical flourishes. Everyone enters qualification on the same basis; everyone played eight or 10 games; Montenegro managed one win against similarly mediocre opposition to that in the other groups. The game between us and them was a one-off friendly which speaks for very little compared to a whole qulifying series. Your suggestion that the RoI-Montenegro group was somehow more difficult than the others is a bit silly. They, Georgia and Cyprus won three games out of 30 between them. Hardly World-beaters. As for the rest, it's luck of the draw.

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Groups are seeded. Montenegro were 6th seeds at the time. NI were 4th seeds (if I recall correctly). Again Montenegro played NI recently and recorded a comfortable win.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

We know that. It was still wrong.

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In your opinion. Others have a different opinion. Can we agree on the result? Montenegro 2 - 0?

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Given my location, you can assume that I have seen Sweden play on countless more occasions than you so you can also assume that I'm the better judge of whether they underperformed or not

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Er, why would I assume any of that? You're just another anonymous poster on the internet, variously pontificating about games you haven't seen, quoting supposed facts that you've made up and indulging in childish wind-ups. I couldn't care less if you've seen every Swedish international since the break-up of Abba, presumably in some parallel universe while simultaneously watching the Republic of Ireland's games on the same dates. I've only seen a handful, including the two against NI, but I also managed brief youtube highlights of most of the other games in Euro 2008. More than enough to assess all the teams in the group.

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Regardless the main factual piece of information that's not subjective is that Sweden only needed 3 points from their remaining 3 games and the Swedish FA had made preparations for a "qualification party" on the night of the NI game

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More fool them.

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Hence the use of the phrase "pretty much out of the reckoning"

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If you equate "pretty much out of the reckoning" with "not out of the reckoning at all", you must realise that other readers will be confused?

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NI were 4th seeds (if I recall correctly)

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You don't, we were seeded third. Are you the Belfast Telegraph's Goteborg correspondent?

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Again Montenegro played NI recently and recorded a comfortable win

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Aye, and Queen Anne's dead. As I said, according to your warped logic one game- even if a friendly- trumps a series of 10 qualifiers- on which basis presumably Montenegro are as good as the RoI despite finishing miles behind? Bizarre.

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In your opinion. Others have a different opinion

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Indeed, although I'd be wary of opinions not based on watching the game.

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Can we agree on the result?

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You're the one making up stats, dear. Have a ryvita and stop posting rank-pulling nonsense.

Ignore him people, if anyone's a Troll it's someone who says they're British &, er, 'Irish' trying to be a WUM.

But ending up generally looking pretty retarded, simply because they have nothing better to do with their time....

Proof enough from his ill-considered response to Post #1628 in #1632 where he fails to answer the points made!

Afternoon, troll. You can stop trolling and all.