Aiden McGeady

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I agree with Geysir when he said that his final ball hasn't been noticably different, but maybe that's a big ask in this team.

Maybe POS is damning him with faint praise by saying that it's better because at least now his delivery is beating the last defender, but look at Duff. A player whose final ball has been impeccable throughout his career must have boasted minimal cross-success-rate stats on Saturday. We do not have a front two that thrive off good wing play. But our wingers bear a huge burden in our current team because they are the only guys ahead of the defence who we can trust with the ball. If our wingers lose it, it's not the calamity that our CMs losing it can be, and the flipside is that they win frees, buy us time and on occasion play a critical final ball.

Let's ignore McGeady and look at Duff's contribution on Saturday. I can't recall a single completed cross (I've had a few tonight) but his contribution was invaluable. I think that's how we should look at McGeady too.

McGeady has definitely come on as a player. I'm a big protagonist of our players playing in Europe rather than the UK. In McGeady's case I think his improvement is simply down to playing regularly against better opposition than the SPL can offer. If he'd gone to Birmingham as was mooted, for e.g., he'd have been a luxury player that'd probably be ditched because of the need for a physical relegation scrapper, over a genuinely talented pedigree footballer.

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Ya it was down to this as much as anything else that I thought Duff shouldn't have got man of the match and aiden should, aiden offered an outlet but also an attacking threat, Duff didn't really as he stalled on the ball ran into good positions with the ball and then ran backwards again, it was a little bit frustrating.

I think the majority of people seem to be on agreement that his end product appears to have improved - passing, not running into blind alleys, crosses too.

If playing on the continent brings on all players like it has Aiden then certainly im all for it. We definitely aren't able handle the more naturally technically gifted players from the continent or even match them for keep possession of the ball. I agree re: birmingham, aiden wouldn't be allowed do what aiden does best, there.

I don't think mcgeady has improved drastically since his move. He had some brilliant performances for celtic over the years in the champions league. But I remember the qualifying games against arsenal couple years ago when he was probably the best player on the pitch in both games. He got noticibly frustrated with the players around him and I think to a certain extent he gave up on Celtic after that. He didn't perform as consistantly well and seem to go very stale.

So while the move hasn't necessarily improved him in my opinion it has given him much needed freshness.

It shouldnt be forgotten either that it took damien Duff a while to fully establish him in the irish team. I may be corrected on this but as far as I can remember kilbane was ahead of him for the left wing position in the qualifiers for 2002 and i think it was the portugal game in lansdown that duffer was superb and he never looked back since.
Hopefully mcgeady will follow suit now and his consistancy will match duffers from now on

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

It shouldnt be forgotten either that it took damien Duff a while to fully establish him in the irish team. I may be corrected on this but as far as I can remember kilbane was ahead of him for the left wing position in the qualifiers for 2002 and i think it was the portugal game in lansdown that duffer was superb and he never looked back since.
Hopefully mcgeady will follow suit now and his consistancy will match duffers from now on

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It's too long ago for me to really recall the time-line, but some time around then he really took off for Blackburn too. They basically became a two man show - Friedal would keep the goals out, and Duff make them happen the other end. So yeah, in the space of a couple of years, Duff went from a squad player for us to one of the best wingers around. It happens, and anyone who thinks that half a year in Russia's not long enough to have improved McGeady's game is wrong. Whether it really has, or the current buzz about him is confidence and/or perception, I can't say.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

It shouldnt be forgotten either that it took damien Duff a while to fully establish him in the irish team. I may be corrected on this but as far as I can remember kilbane was ahead of him for the left wing position in the qualifiers for 2002 and i think it was the portugal game in lansdown that duffer was superb and he never looked back since.

Hopefully mcgeady will follow suit now and his consistancy will match duffers from now on

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Wasn't it as much that McCarthy wanted to use Duff in a free role behind Keane before finally deciding to pair them as a strike force? I don't think he struggled to establish himself as much as he struggled to find a role that suited him, which I guess is not dissimilar to McGeady's predicament at both Celtic and Ireland for the last few years.

I think he has markedly improved at Spartak but I think it's been exaggerated by how much he regressed in his last few years at Celtic. He was producing this kind of form regularly when Celtic were challenging in the knock-out stages of the Champions League, but with the dismantling of O'Neill's team and the general fall in quality of the SPL he sort of lost his way. A lot of his improvement at Spartak can probably be put down to improved sharpness as a result of a new challenge and better standard of opposition/teammates. Class is permanent, form is temporary etc.

good timing for mcgeady, just seen that duff is 32 now, which is fairly old for a winger. dont want to put him into retirement early he still has a function and has rejuvinated himself in the last year and a bit with fulham he doesnt have too long left

There has to be a bit of balance in how his stint so far in Moscow has gone. He is using better facilities, playing with and against better opposition, with and against better players. Using technique instead of hoof and chase which prevails in the EPL and SPL. However the coaching is not what it should be (though the support staff is strong). So in one way he has to raise his game, but in another he hasn't got a coach to really push him. However that doesn't make a difference insofar as he got a move to a massive club, in a massive city, in a massive country and one which can put it up to the best club sides in Europe. If that fails to motivate a player then he should give up.

He is more confident and finally growing up. He's not going to be the finished article staying in Moscow, at least with the current system in Spartak, though if he moves to Germany in 1-2 years, he will blossom.

It's a Russian driven Irish bandwagon and no more.

I'm not even saying that he hasn't improved a bit since his move, if he has it's probably more due to the adulation of the Russian crowd and the confidence it has brought. I honestly believe a lot of Irish supporters had decided he was a new player before a ball was even kicked on Saturday, the goal compounded it. People are suddenly forgiving him a few bad crosses now when he was nearly being hung up for the same offence a few months ago. It's utter nonsense to be making out that he has finally fulfilled his world class potential, when some of the same guys wanted Liam Lawrence* in the team ahead of him until now. I'd say something if we were five or six games down the road and the improvement was unquestionable, but it was one decent performance against inferior opposition. His performance against Georgia in the last campign was probably even better and, like somebody already said, his Champions League performances for Celtic against superior opposition were much more worthy of praise. Saying he has finally come good is an insult to those that knew he was class all along, he hasn't finally come good...ye have finally realised he is good!

*No problem with Lawrence but the gulf in class between the two is immeasurable.

I have yet to see him with S Moscow and Ireland since the move, but thats rubbish. Mcgeady was awful with celtic and Ireland a while back, really bad, couldnt cross a ball to save his life. But as Spud says moving to Russia is bound to help

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

I have yet to see him with S Moscow and Ireland since the move, but thats rubbish. Mcgeady was awful with celtic and Ireland a while back, really bad, couldnt cross a ball to save his life. But as Spud says moving to Russia is bound to help

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Every player has a dip in form from time to time. I'm more talking about the many on here (and in my real life) who have continuously rubbished him, but now feel he's fulfilling his worldclass potential because of a few reports and one International match.

a lot of people on this thread need to get over themselves and stop invalidating the opinions of most posters regarding McGeady. I am and always was a big McGeady fan but Saturdays performance was, hands down, the best performance by McGeady in an Irish shirt to date. To suggest otherwise in some vain attempt to have been right all along is just ridiculous.

McGeady has had some absolute stinkers for Ireland in the past and deserved the reputation that he didnt deliver on his potential in an Irish shirt. Saturday was his coming of age internationally.

Skstu, I agree with you, but everything ok in the Skstu house this last week ?! :)

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Originally Posted by SkStu

a lot of people on this thread need to get over themselves and stop invalidating the opinions of most posters regarding McGeady

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I presume that was at least partially aimed at me! It's the dramatic turnaround in opinion that annoys me. Even if he was that good on Saturday, it's one match, it's confirmation or proof of nothing. It's not a case of "I told you so" because to be honest I didn't see a whole pile extra that I hadn't seen already for him, be it at club or international level. He looked more assured alright.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

I am and always was a big McGeady fan but Saturdays performance was, hands down, the best performance by McGeady in an Irish shirt to date. To suggest otherwise in some vain attempt to have been right all along is just ridiculous

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That's where we differ. I think suggesting his coming of age is ridiculous based on one decent performance. I can see why you would suggest that it's some vain attempt at "I told ye so" but that really isn't what I'm getting at. Plus, I thought his performance against Georgia in the campaign was "hands down" his best performance under a lot more testing circumstances. The thing about the game the last day was that we were winning from start to finish. The fans patience wasn't tested as much with some poor crossing because we didn't really need a goal. He was also our outstanding player against Russia in my opinion, with very little support and got zero credit for that performance, in fact he got slated by many I know.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Saturday was his coming of age internationally.

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Probably, but only because the fans have decided to get off his back because off his alleged Russian Revolution.

it was partially aimed at you DeLorean but i like you so it was mostly aimed at everyone else. ;) Ive always liked and rated McGeady just never felt that his Irish performances matched his club performances - until now.

Paul, everything great chez Stu this week. Im just a grumpy b@stard! (if thats what youre getting at??)

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

It's a Russian driven Irish bandwagon and no more.

I'm not even saying that he hasn't improved a bit since his move, if he has it's probably more due to the adulation of the Russian crowd and the confidence it has brought. I honestly believe a lot of Irish supporters had decided he was a new player before a ball was even kicked on Saturday, the goal compounded it. People are suddenly forgiving him a few bad crosses now when he was nearly being hung up for the same offence a few months ago. It's utter nonsense to be making out that he has finally fulfilled his world class potential, when some of the same guys wanted Liam Lawrence* in the team ahead of him until now. I'd say something if we were five or six games down the road and the improvement was unquestionable, but it was one decent performance against inferior opposition. His performance against Georgia in the last campign was probably even better and, like somebody already said, his Champions League performances for Celtic against superior opposition were much more worthy of praise. Saying he has finally come good is an insult to those that knew he was class all along, he hasn't finally come good...ye have finally realised he is good!

*No problem with Lawrence but the gulf in class between the two is immeasurable.

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I think you're trying to have it both ways here. He is obviously playing better now than he was a year or two years ago. Whether that's down to confidence/adulation or improved skills is a side issue, but he is a "new player" in the sense that most people would understand it. That's not because people decided in advance - it's scepticism being overcome by a consistent improvement in his performances for club and, particularly, country.

Until recently, Lawrence had earned his place ahead of McGeady through consistently better performances, both defensively and offensively, despite being a less gifted player. Now the roles have reversed and most people are delighted with that.

DeLorean you're taking it a bit ott in fairness. In many of his previous games for Ireland he lacked confidence to just slow down a moment and put in a good pass or cross, though on form he could take it to any team. He has improved since moving away from the SPL, he has grown as a player and he has shown consistent form in his matches so far in Russia and the CL.

I've seen him in the flesh playing three times here (1 league, 2 CL), on live tv here 3 times, he is consistentl featured on Russia 2 and NTV highlight shows (abysmal as those offerings are) and he has been allowed to develop and get on with his skills. I've seen him in training sessions out at Sportivnaya only twice but everyone is amazed at how much he puts in each time. Fans have travelled from regional cities to watch the Meat and went away claiming McGeady to be the second coming of any number of past heroes. In the media (print, net, radio and tv) he has been rated in the top 3 for each game and loved. He was not always performing to such a high standard, he was capable of it though let himself down. Now he's clicking and if he can get out of here before he becomes another Wagner Love or worse, then he will be a major European player.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

it was partially aimed at you DeLorean but i like you so it was mostly aimed at everyone else

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:o

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I think you're trying to have it both ways here.

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Not sure what both ways I'm trying to have it but I accept your point overall. I particularly accept your point about Lawrence who was outstanding in Paris, one of the main games that turned my stomach when McGeady wasn't in our line-up.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

DeLorean you're taking it a bit ott in fairness

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I've seen him play in the couple of Champions League matches that were on Sky, he was semi decent but to be fair Spartak were well beaten in both. I've definitely seen him put in better performances for in an Irish shirt, even before last Saturday.

I may have gone a bit "ott" but it is completely aimed at those that wouldn't even recognise his talent beforehand, let alone his performances. I just think the transformation in opinion nowhere near equates to the transformation in McGeady, certainly not from the days where he was playing well for Celtic, and not rotting there like he did for the final year or so. Of course it's been a good move for him, and of course he's playing with more confidence but I feel for some people the Russian excuse is just too easy.

By the way - I wud love him to do well also, fair dues to him for trying Russia:D

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Originally Posted by SkStu

a lot of people on this thread need to get over themselves and stop invalidating the opinions of most posters regarding McGeady. I am and always was a big McGeady fan but Saturdays performance was, hands down, the best performance by McGeady in an Irish shirt to date. To suggest otherwise in some vain attempt to have been right all along is just ridiculous.

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Has anyone even come close to suggesting that this was not McGeady's best game for Ireland?

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McGeady has had some absolute stinkers for Ireland in the past and deserved the reputation that he didnt deliver on his potential in an Irish shirt. Saturday was his coming of age internationally.

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The opinion I have is that when he played good for us or even virtually rescued the winning tempo in a game, much of the credit for him was given begrudgingly or lost in a heap of negativity. As if the player's evident ability could be encapsulated as - party tricks - goes down one way streets and poor crosses.
Now all of a sudden the same poor crosses are tolerated as acceptable losses:)
I think Charlie has comes closest to explaining Aiden's graph .......or should I say evolution.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Until recently, Lawrence had earned his place ahead of McGeady through consistently better performances, both defensively and offensively, despite being a less gifted player. Now the roles have reversed and most people are delighted with that.

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It's strange I actually feel sorry for Lawrence in this situation now. It's not likely that he'll get played in the middle like he should in a 5 or a 4-1.
We all know how Trap has the horn for Whelan and Green and whilst that loyalty is laudable I think that it may be Liam that loses out.
McGeady as so many have said should be one of the first names on the sheet. No more arguing over that one.

Now, let's all start our new campaign of "How come McGeady does/doesn't* track back/cut in/ride ponies* enough/too much*...? (*delete as appropriate)

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Originally Posted by geysir

Has anyone even come close to suggesting that this was not McGeady's best game for Ireland?

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I did say that I thought he was even better against Georgia in the last campaign, mainly due to the circumstances where we were desperately in need of two goals, compared to the last night where he didn't need to make things happen as much. Although he wasn't instrumental in the goals he, as you so articulately put, "rescued the winning tempo in the game".

Not getting involved in tit for tat but I attempted to defend his performance against Russia evening watching the match back a couple of times and posting some type of statistics of his performance. I said at the time I thought he was our best player on the night, and stand by that. He's been our player of the campaign for me.

It's nice also to have an entertaining player when we're playing such a boring style.

Set up Ibson for the Spartak equaliser before they were beaten 3-1 (his first league game of the season). Thoroughly brutal start to the league for Spartak, some sites have him down as #8, some as #64 from last season?

It'll be interesting to see how he gets on at Porto on Thursday, tough one for Spartak, Porto unbeaten and just after winning the league.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Set up Ibson for the Spartak equaliser before they were beaten 3-1 (his first league game of the season). Thoroughly brutal start to the league for Spartak, some sites have him down as #8, some as #64 from last season?

It'll be interesting to see how he gets on at Porto on Thursday, tough one for Spartak, Porto unbeaten and just after winning the league.

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He is #8 this season, but still has to wear 64 in Europe as that's what he's registered as.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Not getting involved in tit for tat but I attempted to defend his performance against Russia evening watching the match back a couple of times and posting some type of statistics of his performance. I said at the time I thought he was our best player on the night, and stand by that. He's been our player of the campaign for me.

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He has had good performances and good periods in a game and in this campaign he has regained his place ahead of Lawrence - on merit, not on promise.
In the last campaign, he was motm in the game against Georgia. The word I would use is tempo and when he was providing the tempo it had the effect of lifting a team which was struggling to get back in the game. So yes his individual performance in that game was more important to the team and result but I'd say by his own standards he is more satisfied by his performance in the Macedonia game.
When he played, Keane was the irrepressible master at the heartbeat of our team. Against Iceland all those years ago, he stupidly handed Iceland their second goal and after that he just relentlessly drove the team on to score 3 goals.

Porto vs Aiden McGeady's Spartak Moscow™ is live tonight on 3e.

You spelled Makgidi wrong.

I hear that the Ajax board resigned in the wake of a McGeady inspired AidenMcGeady'sSpartakMoscow chucking them out of this competition.

Porto would be the strongest team left?

It's on ITV4 over here just FYI.

Who would the Dublin crowd want, or would they care? Do they even know it's on?

I reckon McGeady would be a good publicity tool.

Porto v Benfica would be the stand out I suppose. Moscow v Kiev maybe?

I was helping Tets keep McGeady's stats for his Irish abroad site but don't know if I have the time to keep up with this...anybody want to take over and contribute to the database?

in case anyone is interested here is a stream to the Europa League game

http://atdhenet.tv/36389/watch-fc-po...spartak-moscow

Who's the co-commentator on 3e?

3-0 down, taken off. Bye Bye Spartak

or not perhaps. 3-1.

Spartak seem to lack what Trapattoni calls mentalitee. They gave up the second and third goals so casually. I saw players losing the ball around their own box and just strolling away and leaving someone else to deal with it. Lifeline with that superbly taken goal though.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

3-0 down, taken off. Bye Bye Spartak

or not perhaps. 3-1.

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You were right the first time. 4-1.

Alan Kelly is the co-commentator I think. That did look like it should have been a penalty for Spartak, and they were denied one earlier for a clear handball.

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

I was helping Tets keep McGeady's stats for his Irish abroad site but don't know if I have the time to keep up with this...anybody want to take over and contribute to the database?

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Bumping this in case anyone missed it.
irishfan86 is a bit snowed under at the moment and looking for someone to take over his monitoring of McGeady's games in Russia for me. Any volunteers?

I can help out, I won't be able to get to many of the home games live, but it's on NTV plus here and I usually watch the highlights shows. Spartak are crud, crud supporters, crud management, crud stadium, but some tasty players (like our boy).

Stream here, only 15 mins left though:
http://www.stopstream.tv/ch4.html

Had forgotten about it. 0-0 with Terek at the moment. Don't see any sign of Aiden though.

EDIT: He's there. Just won a corner.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

I can help out, I won't be able to get to many of the home games live, but it's on NTV plus here and I usually watch the highlights shows. Spartak are crud, crud supporters, crud management, crud stadium, but some tasty players (like our boy).

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Forgot about your reply until just now Spudulika, Kingdom sent me a PM a few hours before you replied. I've offered it to him, and I'm waiting back on a reply. If he turns it down then I'll offer it to you, ok?