World Cup draw

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

How did scotland show that, the lost to them twice.

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To be fair to the jocks they were a bit unlucky against Italy. At Hampden Italy got an injury time winner from a free-kick that was never a free-kick and only five minutes before that McFadden missed an open goal that would have put them ahead (granted Italy had a good goal disallowed early on).

Over in Italy I think it took two fantastic Pirlo free-kicks to win the game. Apart from that Italy didn't create much.

Obviously won't be easy but it is possible to get some points from the two Italy games.

It was toni who scored in Italy. You re thinking of the qualifiers for the World Cup in Germany where Rob Douglas ****ed up and got beaten by frees by Pirlo.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

How did scotland show that, the lost to them twice.

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well, if mcfadden had his wits about him that night the scots would have had 2 handy goals

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

It was toni who scored in Italy. You re thinking of the qualifiers for the World Cup in Germany where Rob Douglas ****ed up and got beaten by frees by Pirlo.

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Bugger. You're right. Two headers wasn't it?

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Originally Posted by keenanboy

Not a bad draw, all those teams are well beatable with the right man in place (bar Italy who should top the group). We have a fantastic chance to qualify for South Africa I'm delighted. Glad we didn't get Group 9 I think only 1 comes out of that would that be right?

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No, the second placed team in group will have their points put up against the other eight second placed teams. The best eight play-off against each other over two legs for four places. The second-placed team with the worst points total is eliminated before this. For the head-to-heads, results against the pot six teams do not count.:)

Sorry keenaboy - results against bottom team don't count, not bottom seeds as is discussed earlier here

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Originally Posted by cobra

well, if mcfadden had his wits about him that night the scots would have had 2 handy goals

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or if the ref had of given a perfectly good goal to italy and had spotted that Ferguson was offside. Italy are tough home and away and to me all it shows is that even when you think nyou have a good chance of beating them they come up trumps. Quality side and they are not World Champions for nothing, I think its the worst 1seeds we could have got as they always qualify.

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Originally Posted by carloz

One point that i think will be very important when the fixtures are decided will be our first couple of games. I hate the notion that we always have to play the hardest team in our grou away first....this has only ever worked once for us.

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Dunno, I know it worked in Amsterdam in 2000 but we got decent draws in France, Portugal, Switerland ('04) in the opening three games of qualifiers. Russia and Germany (although it was only a poxy deflection that beat us and we were muck) didn't work too well admittedly.

There are obvious cons with opening away especially with a new manager but we'll have to do it by the looks of things.

I think it'd be a disaster to play Montenegro first. They're an unknown quantity (to themselves even too), probably incredibly nationalistic and will really be up for it early on. Better off to let someone else club them early and deflate a bit of their confidence. Cyprus away first might be the best of them for our point of view. We'd have to be up for that one.

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Originally Posted by Qwerty

have you just woken up from a 5 year snooze? :confused:

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Originally Posted by onephillyhughes

Hows life back in 2001?

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The players are good enough to do that, In our campaign just gone, we beat San Marino, Wales and Slovakia at home quite comfortably. We should have beaten Germany and the Czechs and the Cyprus was an odd one really, I think the players gave up at that stage.

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Originally Posted by cobra

Have been in bulgaria a good few times this last 2 years and for some reason them and the cypriots are very pally..i would not be relying on cyprus to do us a favour when playing bulgaria

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I would not be relying on ANY team to "do us a favour", nor would I reckon that , in qualifying, any country (particularly one on such a high about scalping, and potentially increasing their pot position as Cyprus) is 'pally' enough with another nation to lose or draw an internationally televised fixture just to pee off Ireland and look after their mates...

In fairness, we have to get out of this "clique" mindset, or we'll never realise that it isn't international conspiracies that are hindering us, we are leaking goals, gifting draws, losing games, and fundamentally not qualifying for tournaments because at the moment, we simply aren't good enough.

Heres to the beginning of the new dawn where Ireland "aren't good enough" is but a distant memory.

i think we are good enough to give italy a run in the group but it all depends on whose in charge and can he get the players attitude right..
bulgaria hold no fears at all if we get all our main players out

Pretty tough draw I think, Montenegro and Georgia were probably the worst ones to get from those pots given we seem to perennially struggle against the 'weaker' teams. We should be looking forward to renewing rivalries with Cyprus. Surely things can't go as badly again? :o Satisfied with Bulgaria, good team, but 4 points should be eminently realistic. Italy don't hold all that much fear for me, hopefully they'll lose in final of the Euros and be a very tired team, sick of the sight of each other. Given the 'lions den' away games we face it highlights how critical a highly organised coach will be. For eg, I couldn't see Venables bringing us much joy away from home. I'm more sure than ever that Hodgson is the man.

I think we should aim to have two of Georgia/Cyprus/Italy at home to begin with, get the defence sorted and build confidence for what are all going to be VERY tricky away fixtures.

I think more than anything we need to be solid at the back for this campaign. Bulgaria are excellent in attack with the two Petrovs, Berbatov, and Bojinov is a tremendous prospect, was really looking forward to seeing him with City - he did his cruciate in his first game though I think. But saying that, they're pretty suspect at the back.

Hope springs eternal. The elixir of a new campaign has revived my flagging patriotism. Come on Ireland!! :)

Last time we were in a qualifying group with Bulgaria, we did alright. Thats abot the amount of hope I have right now...

it looks like we're gonna have to play all our september matches away because of croke park unavailablity.

so i think we shouldstart off cyprus away and montenegro away first.
we know cyprus and it should be no problem motivating our players for that game. montenegro i think we should try to catch as early as possible before they're organised and used to playing international football.


in september 09 we should aim for italy away (their season starts way later than the premiership and most of thier players should be in preseason by the time that game comes along)

i'd love our last game to be at home to bulgaria (home crowd, main rivals, a win to qualify maybe, and just like 1987 which started it all!!)

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Originally Posted by eekers

it looks like we're gonna have to play all our september matches away because of croke park unavailablity.

so i think we shouldstart off cyprus away and montenegro away first.
we know cyprus and it should be no problem motivating our players for that game. montenegro i think we should try to catch as early as possible before they're organised and used to playing international football.


in september 09 we should aim for italy away (their season starts way later than the premiership and most of thier players should be in preseason by the time that game comes along)

i'd love our last game to be at home to bulgaria (home crowd, main rivals, a win to qualify maybe, and just like 1987 which started it all!!)

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don't forget lansdowne is supposed to be ready by then

Wow really? Landsdowne is supposed to re-open in September 2008? I had no idea, that was really fast.

Lansdowne is due to open early 2010.

The FAI need a new deal with the GAA if they want to use Croke Park in 2009.

Hard draw not too happy with it.
Bulgaria are a good side only lost 1 game in the Euro qualifing with Holland and Romania in the same group.

I think one of the good things about the group is that everyone is capable of taking points of each other. Italy and Bulgaria will definitely drop points on their travels, if we can beat the teams seeded below us home and away (a tough ask but definitely not beyond us) and get results against Bulgaria, we'll get 2nd place.
I think Hodgson is the man to do this.

I'm looking at the draws in a number of ways.

1. Qualifying prospects. Not so bad but not so great either.
I would have taken the North's group or Scotland's much quicker. I think the best way of looking at the group would be to discount Italy altogether, and focus on getting the 2nd spot. whats we will need is home and away wins against Cyprus, Montenegro and Georgia.
Don't worry about Montenegro, sure its not as easy as getting Luxembourg, but hey we're never exactly comfortable with being expected to hammer teams. Just look at Kazakhstan when they entered the european section, they were expected to be quite tough, when really they've been no better than Moldova, Georgia and only marginally better than Azerbaijan.
As for Cyprus I'm glad we've drawn them for football reasons and I don't think we could have a better start to the new campaign than to have them in Croker. Our players seem to be cottonning on to the idea that we won't tolerate dross performances anymore, and what better way to prove they're up for the task than the Cypriots at home in our first game. The players owe us and themselves two good games against these shower, at least they have the opportunity at rectifying past mistakes.
So for me it will come down to how we do home and away against the Vulgar Bulgars (;)) and anything we pick off Italy will be a bonus. What will stand to us is that any points gained against Montenegro will be discounted if we are in contention for a playoff place and there are some tougher groups than ours, so IF!! we were to come 2nd I'd be confident we wouldn't be the worst runner up.

Now from the journeying aspect...... ARGGGGGHHHH! Cyprus again ffs! The prostitutes must have moved from Poznan to Larnaca or something cause they seem to be our new best friends.
Georgia I haven't a clue about, although I'd love to go there but I'd be reluctant to go on a package.
Montenegro; this is the game I'll be definitely going to. Had heard a while back that its a lovely place and quite modern for a relatively new country so will be making the trek there.
Italy. Not too happy. Easiest trip to do but I've heard bad reports from friends who've been there for matches before.

The one striking thing about the draw is the lack of ryanair friendly destinations!:D

;)

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Time to head back to Optimists Anonymous there, The Boss.

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I dunno, he won the Predictions Cup and came 3rd in the predictions League so he must know something

:)[QUOTE=shakermaker1982;824260]was watching this live online at Knock airport waiting for my flight home and my first impression was "oh sh**".UOTE]

Why??? Did you realise it's a joke of an airport, or did you see the pilot winding the propellor?

Delaney's reaction to the draw: http://www.skysports.com/video/0,202...921710,00.html

Round up of the opposition: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-1230349.html
I'd forgotten about the 1-1 draw with Bulgaria under Kerr. Which is odd, considering this - http://tetsujin1979.googlepages.com/ReidsGoal.JPG - is my wallpaper!

Happy enough with that draw. While Montenegro are a strong 6th seed considering we struggle against the poorer teams more so than the other so called 'big' teams in the group it should suit us to have a 6th seed team that should also take points off our rivals for qualification rather than just us. Cyprus are one of the weakest 4th seeds irrespective of what they did to us under that plonker Staunton. Georgia are a very average 5th seed - Latvia, Albania, Armenia and Austria would all be more difficult for us IMO.

Bulgaria are one of the poorest second seeds.

Italy will run away with the group then it's realistically us or Bulgaria for second bar a major surprise. Don't understand all the doom and gloom.

I'm fairly happy. If you take Italy out, then the question is could we win a group containing Bulgaria, Georgia, Cyprus and Montenegro and I think yes we could. Bulgaria have a few star players but in those terms so do we. I'd give a well run Irish team a fighting chance in this group.

I was comparing it to the last group and I think it's easier (not surprisingly since there are more groups this time and so the quality is more distributed. (By the way as a parting shot to Stan, we'd have been fourth seeds under the previous system, 4 year plan my a*se)

Italy vs Germany - Not much in it but in a way I'd pick Italy here. They seem to have made heavy work of qualifying for a few tournaments recently whcih Germany rarely do. In the end both are class teams and should qualify.

Bulgaria vs Czech Republic - Probably the most improtant comparison. Bulgaria are probably a coming team whereas we thought (and I still do) the Czech's had their best days behind them. As someone else has said the 2 Petrov's, Bojinov and Berbatov are a formidable set of forwards, but there defence may not be as great. I think I'd take Bulgaria over the Czechs two years ago, but I could look very stupid. I do remember however being told by many people on here how the Slovak's were going to be a great sode etc etc. We seem to sometimes overestimate the unknown.

Cyprus vs. Cyprus (I know they were fifth seeds and are now fourth seeds but it makes sense to compare). Oddly I think Cyprus are a much easier proposition this time. We had 2 odd matches against them. In the first we went in thinking we were playing some minnows and could p*ss about. We were obviously wrong but we did teach the other teams in the group a lesson. How different might it have been if they had already got their draw against Germany. The second game was a dire performance, to my mind the worst I have ever seen from us but we still drew with them. If we are capable of playing like that agains we wont qualify whoever is in oru group but I think we should aim for 6 points here.

Slovakia vs. Georgia. Anyone who saw Georgia play Scotland will have a false impression of them. They did draw with Ukraine but lost twice to Lithuania and their main strike threat is Arveladze. Admittedly Slovakia were poo too but Georgia are a weak team that again should not worry a well run side.

Wales vs. Montenegro. Dont play Montenegro first. Let Italy play them first, then get in. They have some good results in friendlies and are no 6th seed but as someone pointed out their population is 600,000. They have one good payer in Vucinic, the rest play for clubs that eL teams would expect to beat. Would rather have Montenegro than Wales any time.

San Marino vs no-one. In reality the Euro group was also a 6 team group as everyone got 6 points against San Marino (some easier than others). I'm glad we dont have a joke team this time as it is no win situation.

So all in all an easier group than one where we came third. We can qualify if we are well run, start well and get 4 poitns off Bulgaria.

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Originally Posted by gwhite

I think one of the good things about the group is that everyone is capable of taking points of each other. Italy and Bulgaria will definitely drop points on their travels, if we can beat the teams seeded below us home and away (a tough ask but definitely not beyond us) and get results against Bulgaria, we'll get 2nd place.

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while it is true that everyone is capable of beating everyone in our group this may be a problem when it comes dwn to 'best' second placed teams.
italy are not the worst 1st seed imo, at the start or end of tournaments a lot of times they cant be ars€d. they are also partial to accepting a draw if they look like qualifing.
hard to see us getting many wins away from home either.
tbh though nearly all of the groups are as tough/tougher except group 2 and i perhaps wouldn't have minded group 4 (russia seem weak enough on their last few qualifing games and germany are imo beatable).

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Happy enough with that draw. While Montenegro are a strong 6th seed considering we struggle against the poorer teams more so than the other so called 'big' teams in the group it should suit us to have a 6th seed team that should also take points off our rivals for qualification rather than just us. Cyprus are one of the weakest 4th seeds irrespective of what they did to us under that plonker Staunton. Georgia are a very average 5th seed - Latvia, Albania, Armenia and Austria would all be more difficult for us IMO.

Bulgaria are one of the poorest second seeds.

Italy will run away with the group then it's realistically us or Bulgaria for second bar a major surprise. Don't understand all the doom and gloom.

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Good post

I think we should play Cyprus away as late as possible, look at their results and performances at the end of the last campaign as opposed to the start. We should play them at home early enough and perhaps bulgaria. If we could get six points there, have a head start on bulgaria. Im sure when is best to play the italians, not going to be easy. if we get 3 points out of the two games with them we will do well.

Its not a great group but second place is definitely achievable. Compare like with like:

Germany V Italy
Czech Rep V Bulgaria
Slovakia
Wales V Georgia
Cyprus V Cyprus
Andorra V Montenegro

Overall this group is certainly not harder than our previous campaign, other than Montenegro, there is little difference between the two. you would argue that Italy are slightly better than the Germans and the Czechs are better than bulgaria. In fairness, with a bit of management and organisation we couldve qualified from the last campaign, no reason why second is not very possible this time around. (Plus Bulgaria is a good omen for us - Euro 88 campaign anyone!!)

After reading the 16+ pages of this thread the one thing that strikes me and the one phrase I could use to sum it up is : "Every game is a cup final"!!!

This could go one of two ways.

1. It could work in our favour as Italy and Bulgaria drop points against the lower seeded teams and we profit from this.

2. It could work against us as we once again fail to beat teams of mediocore ability.

I look forward to a new period in Irish football under a new manager with revitalised players.Lets be positive and think we can qualify because if we dont we may as well throw in the towel now.It will be tough there is no doubt about that but we have to believe we can do it.

Looking forward to the trip to Italy particularly.Anyone know where they play there games?Is it Rome or do they move around?

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Originally Posted by eekers

the swiss got some handy group there and i'd d a swap with the north no problem

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are you kidding me?? We'd come fifth no doubt in the norths group

they move around , scotland played in Bari , would quite fancy naples

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Originally Posted by onephillyhughes

Theres a serious chance we don't win any away games in this group.

I see Montenegro's star man plays for Roma!! :O

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Our star man plays for Newcastle!!

This is a very, very tricky group.
My one consolation is that I think everyone will drop points somewhere and Italy might just romp home with games to spare.
If we get our games sorted correctly (like McCarthy did for Japan) we could nick 2nd. Either play Italy very early and catch them a bit cold post Euro 2008 or leave then until the end when they are already through, Cyprus should be avoided until as late as possible, they run out of steam in the group once they are mathematically out of it. The other side to avoid in the early games could be Montenegro as they will be very "up for it" as it's their first ever campaign.
So I think Italy away in September (Maybe, snatch a point, nothing lost if you lose) followed by Georgia at home to get a morale boosting win. Then Montenegro at home then take on Bulgaria with 2 wins under your belt and a bit of confidence in the side.

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Originally Posted by endabob1

.........If we get our games sorted correctly (like McCarthy did for Japan) we could nick 2nd.

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Agreed. Our fate in this group could well be decided as much off the field and on it depending how the fixtures are organised. Unfortunately the non availability of Croker for the September fixtures means we will have our (at least) first match away.

There will be a big onus on those sitting in on the fixtures meeting to take all the factors into account. If we don't (or even do) have a manager in place for the fixtures meeting a great deal of thought should be given to this process to the extent that the FAI should review how they did it in the past (in terms of success and failures) and have plans X, Y and Z ready for the meeting. There might be a case for getting advice from Mick and others on this. However, given their track record on listening to, never mind hearing, advice I won't be holding my breath.

First game away to Italy is a must given the unavailibility of Croker. Catch them cold after the Euros, their seson starts later then elsewhere in Europe to.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

First game away to Italy is a must given the unavailibility of Croker. Catch them cold after the Euros, their seson starts later then elsewhere in Europe to.

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Which is why the Italians will probably be focused on what they would consider a nice relaxing trip to Cyprus or Montenegro in September, and will be having none of this "Tournament hangover; stealth attack in Rome" guff from the Irish or Bulgarians come negotiation time...."Bugger off to Georgia, or, hell, bate the bejaysus out of each other in Sofia", they'll say, "And we'll give yez a ring when our league starts proper. We aren't stupid, y'know..."

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report

Wow really? Landsdowne is supposed to re-open in September 2008? I had no idea, that was really fast.

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i honestly though it was due to open in ear;y 2009, not 2010. my bad.

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Originally Posted by Bondvillain

Which is why the Italians will probably be focused on what they would consider a nice relaxing trip to Cyprus or Montenegro in September, and will be having none of this "Tournament hangover; stealth attack in Rome" guff from the Irish or Bulgarians come negotiation time...."Bugger off to Georgia, or, hell, bate the bejaysus out of each other in Sofia", they'll say, "And we'll give yez a ring when our league starts proper. We aren't stupid, y'know..."

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Didn't stop us getting early games against the Dutch, Russians, French and Germans away the last 4 campaigns, I'm sure they'd all have had similar trhoughts. There's always give and take.

Ouch! Have to say that having got a reasonably "easy" draw for Euro2008, this WC Draw has exacted its revenge on you.

Italy - Best team in the entire Draw, will qualify in 1st place no doubt, so no outside chance of ROI somehow sneaking into 1st place (e.g. following the other teams cancelling each other out)

Bulgaria - Can't say I know much about them, other than their ECQ form was excellent, they seem to be on the up-and-up and they've got Berbatov - be afraid, be very afraid! (I've been watching Spurs for nearly 25 years now, and seen some top strikers in that time - Lineker, Sheringham, Klinnsmann etc - but in terms of sheer all-round talent, Berba may be the best of the lot, even if he needs a move to a better side to realise it fully)

Cyprus - Everyone is saying that the ROI won't fear them/will be out for revenge etc, which is true enough. But I still think this overlooks some decent performances by Cyprus in other games. Plus the fact that Cyprus won't fear ROI, either.

Georgia - Poor enough, it must be acknowledged, except for one worrying thought. That recent game where they beat Scotland might not be just "one of those things". Apparently the Coach decided the Old Guard needed shifting out and threw in the youngsters instead. (There were at least two 17-year-olds). It might be best to avoid them early on, at least before a couple of beatings takes the youthful optimism and lack of fear out of them?

Montenegro - The bottom seed that NOBODY wanted. History is full of examples of new countries bursting from the traps at 100 mph - Slovenia, Latvia, even the Faroes!

By contrast, I'd have to admit NI's Draw was about as kind as we could have expected - compensation for Euro2008?