Gary Breen was probably our best performer at WC 2002 so to compare him with McShane is laughable.
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Gary Breen was probably our best performer at WC 2002 so to compare him with McShane is laughable.
He asked for a transfer when he was dropped?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
What? I think you will find that Steve Stauntons' performances were such that Gary Breen could only but have played well. A bit like the Mc Grath/Babb partnership in 1994.Quote:
Originally Posted by gufct
Robbie Keane was outstanding in every game in 2002 as was Damien Duff (albeit perhaps a bit slow to get out of the traps against the Cameroon)
Staunton was exceptional in 2002 WC alrite....
Good. Tell your cab driver they can have the useless oaf back for free! In fact, we'll give them £2.5m to take him. The reason he is struggling is because he is a Championship player at the very best!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Wait and see how he does beside Dunne again in the friendlies. I'm sure Trap was impressed overall with what he saw of McShane in the previous Ireland games. He mentioned McShane once or twice along with McGeady as promising young players in the press conference. McGeady has been very poor for Ireland but it's obviously clear to Trap how talented he is. It's also clear how good McShane can be to those that can remember his excellent performances. Trap just has to work out what makes him play well and I'm sure Richard Dunne will play a huge part.
I think that's our best partnership. McShane does really well against the big guys. Dunne would eat up your Kenny Miller's or Craig Bellamy's that the likes of Vidic, Cannavaro, Puyol, etc, would have really struggled against in the past. They compliment each other well.
Yeah like his motm performances against Newcastle, Everton & Wigan!! And how, when he was dropped from the Sunderland line up in January, the team suddenly got good results, stopped leaking goals and stayed up with two games to spare! It's plain to see that McGeady has talent to be a top player but McShane is one of the worst defenders I've ever seen play for Sunderland! And I've seen some bad defenders play for us down thru the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Wigan? Oh yeah, Evans was much better that day. Evans was the guy at fault for McShane's OG. They were both as bad as each other that day. Newcastle - I'll ignore any of his performances at right back because he's not a right back. Everton - he was destroyed obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs
Anyway, let's see if he puts in poor performance beside Dunne. Most young centre half need an experience, intelligent guy beside them. I keep going back to Bobo Balde but he was absolutely top class beside Mjallby, abysmal beside Varga. Unlike Balde, McShane will gain plenty of tactical knowledge and won't need to be guided for the rest of his career.
After the Everton game:Quote:
And how, when he was dropped from the Sunderland line up in January, the team suddenly got good results, stopped leaking goals and stayed up with two games to spare!
Sunderland 1-0 Derby
Chelsea 2-0 Sunderland
Sunderland 1-1 Aston Villa
Reading 2-1 Sunderland
Sunderland 0-4 Man Utd
Sunderland 3-1 Bolton
Blackburn 1-0 Sunderland
The Man Utd game aside that's not bad at all. I remember Phil Thompson singing his praises against Chelsea saying he was winning every header and tackle. Going on reports, those last 2 games were motm performances.
If I'm not mistaking, that Everton game was the start of McShane's run at centre half. Nosworthy and Higginbotham were the 2 centre halves up until then but Nosworthy got injured and McShane-Higginbotham was the partnership for all the above games. The 2 full backs against Everton were Harte and Whitehead. What a terrible defence for a young guy to be thrown into. I don't rate Higginbotham at all. McShane will be so much better than him at that age.
So the above games, plus the Everton game, was McShane's period as a centre half for Sunderland, partnering a very poor organiser imo. The Wigan game - Nosworthy's first game back, Evans' debut. A totally new defence and everybody was poor. McShane was dropped because Evans was going to get his chance and the McShane-Evans partnership had failed in the previous match.
Again, I'm just happy that Trap saw how good McShane can be and that's fresh in his memory.
Is that you Paul? Lets look at the results without McShane.
H 2-0 Portsmouth
A 2-0 Spurs
H 2-0 Birmingham
A 3-0 Liverpool
H 2-0 Wigan
A 1-0 Portsmouth
A 0-0 Derby
H 0-1 Everton
H 0-1 Chelsea
A 0-1 Villa
H 2-1 West Ham
A 1-3 Fulham
H 1-2 Man City
6wins 6 defeats 1 draw. 5 clean sheets 12 goals against pts 19.
The games with McShane in the squad after the Everton game read; (Not including Wigan in the FA Cup)
2 wins 4 defeats 1 draw 1 clean sheet 11 goals against pts 7.
The facts speak for themselves! As for the stupid statement that McShane is better than Evans! What are you smoking? What you basing that on? The fact that Evans can't get in ahead of Ferdinard Vidic & Brown? Evans is a star in the making. Ask any football fan, they'd pick Evans over McShane.
In fairness he was saying for that particular game, Evans(as you point out the darling boy of the Sunderland crowd) was just as bad as MacShane.
But the facts prove that McShane isn't up to Premiership football. If he's not up to that he ins't up to international football. Remember he was poor last time out against Cyprus & Wales.
I never said that. I'm bewildered how you could make that mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs
We'll never know that until he plays beside a proper partner. For all we know Michah Richards might have conceded 7 against Everton alongside rubbish like Higginbotham.Quote:
But the facts prove that McShane isn't up to Premiership football.
:rolleyes: What was said about Noz in his early days, remind me?Quote:
Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs
It's very sweeping statement to say the team suddenly got good because McShane was dropped... So it was nothing to do with the aditions to the squad in Jan, is that what your saying??
McShane is a rubbish full back is all I'll conceed in your statement. That aside you're talkin out of yer a**e. How you can write off a 21 year old given some of the performances he's had for Sunderland and Ireland is beyond me. You may argue I'm ignoring the blips, but you are clearly ignoring his start to the season and some of his Ireland performances. He'll come good along side the right man.
Yes the season changed with the with addition in January. Evans & Bardsley came in & McShane & Higginbotham got dropped. He had one good game against Spurs at the start of the season. That's it! He bottled it in the biggest game of the season against Newcastle. As for Norsworthy & Collins. They did get some stick but didn't look anything as bad as McShane. I was always a big fan of Nuggys & knew if giving the chance he'd make it. I admit that I wasn't a fan of Collins. But he did show glimspes of been a good player for us in his first season with us under McCarthy. Maybe Danny can be an example to McShane. But I doubt it. If McShane wasn't Irish everyone on here would be talking about how bad he is!
i dont think its giving anyone any perverse pleasure to say McShane is ****e lads. We would all love if he was class, we would all love if he was Richard Dunne or even Kenny C, but he is not. Saying a guy is a **** footballer is not a personal attack on his person.....its just saying he is a **** footballer. The one thing he has in his favour tho, is time, not too many years ago Richie Dunne was the "most accident prone donkey" in England and look at him now. Its not all over for PM yet, but the way people were talking about him after the Czech game, well......there is a reason Trappa wants Andy O'Brien back.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs
He had more than just one good game at the start of the season, acknowledged by more than just green tinted irish fans. Evans and Bardsley came in, yes, but what about the removal of Dwight Yorke from his anchor role, where he had all the mobility of the Tin Man??? Too many variable to simply say mcshane's omision was the reason.... He'll come good.
And if you were a big fan of Noz at the start you were in the minority cos he was poison..
Not according to the ex-pro's watching the matches for the Premier league FF. Chosen in the top 3 players on the pitch in matches against Spurs, Birmingham, Bolton and Blackburn. All 4 games he played centre half. He's probably been decent more often than not in his games at centre half this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs
To me, the problem with McShane is that he can be a world beater in one game and absolute shyte in the next. Also known as "inconsistant".
My problem is
Higgin bottom or Higgin botham ?
To be fair to you Geysir, distinguishing an arse from an English cricketer can be a very difficult task!
Against Spurs he had a great game, Birmingham he scored a stupid only goal & was at fault for O'Connor's goal. Bolton he did ok but did he's usually headless chicken routine. If he was so good against Blackburn why was he dropped afterwards? The lad has gone as far as he can go. As I said, he's a championship player at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
BBC Sunderland forum agrees with you...Quote:
Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs
'ive seen milk turn quicker than mcshane'
'Awful positioning, constantly giving fouls away and does not seem to be able to work in a team anymore. I would gladly see the back of him'
'Even a 1 legged blind man has more vision and ability than McShane.'
'He is certainly a new name for most of our worst elevens.'
'He's totally out of his depth'
'The most rash, self destructive defender I've ever seen!'
'Mcshane: dispose of forthwith please. no questions asked'
Seriously, I could go on and on. They are dying to see the back of him, I checked a couple of pages of forum for those quotes and I saw one quote defending him. Personally I think he has to go back to the Championship and relearn his trade, he's still young enough to be a decent defender if he works hard.
We saw all this last year against the Czechs and others. Not a surprise, some on hear were too intent on hailing the arrival of the McSsiah .
Yes Paddy, we really should not give the highest praise to a debutant in a competitive international after turning in a stirring performance to win man of the match.
The most unique competitive debut for Ireland in over 32 years.
Instead of thinking that this lad is going to improve with the right club we should have said that he was cráp, easily brushed off by Koller and was never going to make it.
Now that he has had a nightmare season, safe to say that that international MOM debut should be wiped off the books :rolleyes:
The lad is only 22 and still has a lot to learn for a defender. To write him off at this stage is simply pure ignorant. Look at Richard Dunne, he was a complete shambles for years, but then he grew up, pulled himself together and is now a top notch Premier League defender. Also look at Rio Ferdinand. He's gone from being the most expensive write-off of a player to the current best defender in the world.
Alan Kernaghan won MOTM for his first three games with Ireland. Such plaudits mean f*ck all in the bigger picture. Posters on here were too quick to heap praise on the lad.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Ill be surprised if he plays in the Premiership again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrigaline
He may be only 22 but you cannot compare him to Dunne or Ferdinand even at their worst. It’s all about ability which McShane does not have whichthe other two had abundances of at his age, even if full to the gills with beer. You can’t fault him for effort but he can’t cut it at the top leave. Andy O’ Brien St Ledger and McCarthy are much better players.
Jayzus, I'm willing to acknowledge peolpes misgivings and maybe the fact that some of us over rate McShane.... But that last line??? C'mon man. Each have had their share of critics, O'Brien more than most. And St Ledger and McCarthy are relatviely unknown quantities with little more profile than good Championship centre halves. At least McShane has played well on occasion in the top flight at some stage in his career, on top of being highly rated in the Championship. If anything St Ledger is at the stage in his career were McShane was at Brighton 3 years ago. A good defender in a poor Championship team.Quote:
Originally Posted by FarBeag
On current form I'd pick O'Brien ahead of McShane, definately. But lets not be too quick to write him off. I don't think we've seen the last of McShane as a premiership player.
Alan Kernaghan deserved his plaudits until, for varied reasons, his standards dropped.Quote:
Alan Kernaghan won MOTM for his first three games with Ireland. Such plaudits mean f*ck all in the bigger picture. Posters on here were too quick to heap praise on the lad.
Ill be surprised if he plays in the Premiership again.
What has all that got to do with anything?
McShane did very well in a tough debut and deserved every praise that came his way.
Some people would rather be right about their dour McShane predictions than to have him playing good.
I hope he can get away from the Sunderland mob and get playing up to the standard he is capable of.
We have very few Centre Halves.
Of course, Trap can always try to convert Kilbane into one :)
Hopefully he won't have to
Dunne and Ferdinand had attitude issues when young, their talent was not really questioned. Not relevant to McShane who has had a near perfect attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrigaline
Frankly I think it is more harmful to build someone up than to adopt a measured approach. Posters on here were talking about a move to Barcelona - as Captain. Not a criticism of McShane, but the stupid hype on here.
And Geysir, I've no wish to deny him his decent performances for us - however "the most unique debut in 32 years is pushing it" - see para above.
I've not written him off yet - but the odds are not at all good. Sunderland was one of the few Premiership teams very easy to break into.
nothing would please me more than McShane being a top class club and international player. My feelings are that he wont. 22 is quite old to have some of the bad habits that this guy has.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I would have thought the point about Alan Kernaghan was quite clear. Similar to McShane after Czech, he was praised for his first few performances and after that, like McShane, his club and international form went to sh1te. Winning MOTM in your debut means nothing. Doing it week in week out at the highest level is what counts and McShane has shown this season that this is something that he may not have the ability to do.
Hopefully he turns it round but i have my doubts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_peepee
I cant for the life of me see what some people see in this bloke. He played a couple of good games for Ireland and slightly more for Sunderland.If I was hyped up enough in a game representing my country for the first time I would play a blinder too, but I would be soon found out just like McShane. He wasnt even playing as a centre back for West Brom when Keane bought him which imo was another hasty signing by him. At least McCarthy and St Ledger play at centre half regulary and they can be judged on how good they are for this position something Keane did not do when he bought McShane. He saw him play at right back for west Brom and possibly his two first outing in the centre for Ireland. He now knows he made a mistake and McShane will be sold on to God knows where, maybe back to west Brom as a stand in right back nothing more.
I can’t go along with the 'he needs an organiser beside him like Richard Dunne' bit. No player at this standard should need someone to hold his hand everytime he plays a game. I still stand by what I wrote in my other post that the St Ledger and McCarthy are better players than McShane.
I agree, although I don't think its possible to compare McShane with Ferdinand. Ferdinand always had great guile and class; McShane has neither, and the best we can hope for appears to be a hatchet defender who gives 110%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrigaline
wow what happened there?
Yes he did. As a 20 and 21 year old.. He's literally just gone 22.. Far too much scope there to write him off. He has his limits, sure. But I think he'll make one half of a decent partnership. I don't think he needs an organiser either. He played very well beside O'Shea didn't he??Quote:
Originally Posted by FarBeag
I still think him and Nosworthy could do a job for Sunderland and at the moment he's behind O'Brien to partner Dunne, for me.
Hopefully St Ledger makes a move up during the Summer... Bruce has made a habit for going back for players he was into while at Brum, so hopefully he takes a punt on him at Wigan.
Am I the only person in Ireland who didn't think he was exceptional on his debut? When Koller scored he squatted him away like a fly.
Chmapionship player at best
Well, he nearly scored, kept Koller quiet for most of the game, and I blame John O'Shea for the goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull-4-life
And he won MOTM.
If he's a "championship player at best" why are people recommending St Ledger, McCarthy, etc who ARE championship players ahead of him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Probably because McShane's made a bit of a clown out of himself this season and many feel others wouldn't be so out of their depth...
The vast majority of young players do. Dunne did at that age. O'Brien needed to be led up until recently. O'Shea still does.Quote:
Originally Posted by FarBeag
I agree he was to blame for the goal. We do though seem to swing from one extreme to the other with some of the young guys. I suspect that some of the criticism voiced now is a reaction to the stupid hype earlier. Not McShanes fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull-4-life