Why would you want to join a Northern Ireland fans' site, with such deep hatred against them in your soul?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by bwagner
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Why would you want to join a Northern Ireland fans' site, with such deep hatred against them in your soul?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by bwagner
Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
Maybe if Marty sticks around he would like to tell us why they use the term beggers and where they borrowed it from( not that I really give a **** anyway about what they say), and then after that tell us how they represent all the people including Darron Gibson, and are not really a shower of Bigots.
Its a shame he didn't bring Mad dog over with him, he was a good laugh.
Annex 2 refers to exactly what it claims to refer toQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
ANNEX 2
ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR ASSOCIATION TEAMS FOR PLAYERS WHOSE
NATIONALITY ENTITLES THEM TO REPRESENT MORE THAN ONE ASSOCIATION
You are quoting a press release from 2004 which pre-dated the Annex.
However as I pointed out in my post it has not been updated subsequent to the FIFA statutes being updated in 2006. Despite there being no significant change to Article 15 there is a legal argument that the Annex only applies to the old statutes.
FIFA have not ruled on this issue. DG is entitled to play for us as per the letter however it is not a final ruling.
The same could be said of a few of the NI fans posting on here in fairness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Gspain as I said earlier if FIFA attempted to prevent Gibson from playing for the Republic I would chew my own legs off. It's not going to happen. The only possible success I can see the IFA getting from all this is that there may be some alteration to the rules to prevent NI born players in the future from declaring for the Republic. Even then I would think this is unlikely in the extreme.
Why do you think that FIFA need to rule on this? The Legal Dept. have already answered the IFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Keeping focussed on those lines and repeating them won't make them come true for you.
The reality is that FIFA formulated the annex2 as a guideline to arbitrate on how to deal with Naturalization issues. As is stated on the press release, the ANNEX is not for those who qualify under 15.3
The practice of FIFA players committee since then supports this 100%.
FIFA consistantly support players whoose citizenship is automatic with the application of article 15.3
Not so easily dismissed.Quote:
You are quoting a press release from 2004 which pre-dated the Annex
It is a press release about the FIFA congress where this annex was voted on. The direct quote about the Annex is on the minutes of the congress.
"any player who assumes a new nationality and for whom paragraph 3 of this article does not apply, or for any player who in principle would be eligible to play for the teams of more than one Association due to his nationality."
Hypothetically if there was a legal argument to the application of the Annex which FIFA have no doubt about, can you imagine FIFA doing more than clarifying the issue again.
The IFA have dug a negative PR hole for themselves on this issue.
Livehead1, are you a victim of identity theft or impersonation? Or has all that time living amongst the Brits caused you to re-evaluate your "Irishness" and decide to support the true "Ireland" football team? (You know, the one which has existed for 127 years...).Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
The only reason I ask is because you seem rather keen to join an NI fans' messageboard. Which is entirely fine by me, except that another poster on this Board, using the name "Livehead1" frequently used to berate me for posting on this Board, along the lines:
"Your posts are a waste of time. You are not a Republic of Ireland soccer fan, you come onto this forum, irritating people with your remarks about our national side. This is not your national side."
OR
In response to my comment: "Of course, I am not a fan of the ROI team", your reply was:
"Then WHY BOTHER YOUR AR*E!!!! I don't go on the French football forum and start posting messages. Its not just this topic, you seem more than willing to comment on any topic that is up for debate, and consistantly slate OUR national side"
OR
"go and post ya tripe on your own forums! all you do is constantly make disparaging comments about our team, im not on about this post in particular, im on about in general. why do you bother coming on here at all?"
Note: The above three excerpts were all taken from the thread entitled: "Dermot Ahern's comments on an All-Ireland side", which I as an NI fan am not supposed even to be allowed an opinion on, according to the likes of Livehead1 - whoever that may really be...
http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=616147#post616147
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
EalingGreen,
I do not intend to create a post of such length that it bores anyone who reads it. However, there is a simple reason why I wish to register on the ourweecountry site.
There are some matters that have very recently become highly relevant to that of a ROI fan. This matter is related to the eligibility or not as many believe of one of our players, Darron Gibson. A fellow member of this board posted a comment inviting others to view a thread on the above mentioned site, commenting that it was of some interest. When I attempted to view this thread, I was met with a screen asking me to register, in order to view the information. Wanting to view the information I filled in the relevant information, yet I am not allowed on the forum. I hope this answers your long winded question.
Whilst i'm on the subject of your self-righteous nature, was it not "EalingGreen" who attempted to use my signature on this forum as evidence that I was a bigot?
EG, simple question why is the username "sligo_boy" not allowed register?
cos it doesnt have the words "wee", "1982" or "we're not brazil" in it.
If Gibson has an Irish passport then he is allowed to play for the Republic of Ireland. Under the Good Friday Agreement the Irish and British governments recognised the right of people from Northern Ireland to choose Irish passports if they so desire.
I can't see FIFA getting involved with the Good Friday Agreement, to be honest.
...the shortest answer to your exhaustive post is ...Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
-No I wasn't.
Oh mmmmercy. :D
I have absolutely no idea, since I am not a mod or anything on that site. I can't believe it is because it has "Sligo" in the title, since the Board has a number of posters who are clearly from the Republic. It also accepts names like "Celtic1967", one of our most loyal and appreciated members...Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
All Livehead has to do is pm "On The Kop" and he'll get an answer straight from the horse's mouth. Though it might sound like "Nay"....
(That was a joke, btw)
It's quite simple, really. You have frequently berated me for posting on this Board, due to the fact that I am not an ROI fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
Yet you, clearly not an NI fan, want to register on OWC.
Those are double standards, not mitigated by your professing only to want to post on matters of interest to an ROI fan, since 90%+ of my posts on this Board (and 100% of the "controversial" ones) are on topics which are equally of interest to fans of NI football. You know, Darron Gibson's eligibility for NI/ROI, Dermot Aherne's call for the abolition of the NI side, the Irish League section etc.
Anyhow, I understand you are studying law. Should you qualify to practice, please God don't ever let me be represented by you in a Court of Law - though I'd be more than happy to see you on the other side, if your "Lionel Hutz-type" advocacy skills on this Board are anything to go by! :rolleyes:
right i want to know about our rights as posters on OWC under the good friday agreement.
I don't recall citing your signature as evidence for claiming you're a bigot and I can't be arsed checking back. So would you like to produce the evidence to back up this claim?Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
I would like to see DG continue to represent us so it is not what I want here. I still see it as a very complex case which FIFA have not ruled on. they have allowed DG to play for us while a decision is being considered.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
There is nothing in Article 15 of the Statutes that stops Qatar doling out passports to Brazilians which was the whole point of this.
The GFA agreement has nothing to do with this btw as NI born people were entitled to Irish passports all along.
My own belief is that the FAI case is based on nationality. DG has only one nationality eg Irish. The IFA need to argue that he is also British. This becomes a highly political argument.
I think FIFA are probably hoping there will be an agreement between the FAI and IFA which is allowed for under the rules. I can't see that happening though.
Human rights, Roger, human...Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
I agree, Gspain, although I think there may be an additional aspect to FIFA's consideration of the issue, namely, protecting the rights and jurisdiction of each of its Member Associations equally.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
That is, as far as FIFA are concerned, the smallest Association has the same integrity and protections within its jurisdiction as the biggest. This is why, for example, FIFA has stood up to PR China over Taipei. The IFA may argue that its own territorial integrity is being compromised by a neighbouring Association, acting on the strength of a political stance adopted by its Government i.e. anyone born in NI is automatically Irish. And irrespective of the good relations between the two Governments (London and Dublin) over political and constitutional matters, FIFA has never tolerated politicians interfering in the independence and integrity of its Members when it comes to footballing matters.
speak for yourself EG :DQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Therefore the vote at the congress for the annex specified for that naturalization issueQuote:
Originally Posted by gspain
exactlyQuote:
The GFA agreement has nothing to do with this btw as NI born people were entitled to Irish passports all along.
.Quote:
My own belief is that the FAI case is based on nationality. DG has only one nationality eg Irish. The IFA need to argue that he is also British. This becomes a highly political argument
As nationality is automatic, FIFA have accepted that 100%, the FAI don't have to argue anything and JD knows this.
FIFA precedent is set in stone re automatic citizenship, doesn't matter if by location of his birth he is eligible for another passport.
LOL utter rubbish, the politicians decide and then FIFA follow suit, you telling me FIFA stood brave against the fall of yugoslavia or told slovakia , now now lads , none of this independence carry on. Listen Ukraine , you lads have to play for russia , i dotn care if you are an independent state now ??Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
The governments of both nations agree that people born in northern Ireland are eligible for irish nationality. Fifa wont mess with that if the player declares for the republic.
Nobody is denying DG's right to an Irish passport. However if FIFA rule that he is also British because he was born in the UK then the Annex may apply (subject to the legal argument that the annex no longer refers to a valid Satatute). This would be a highly emotive and political ruling to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
If the Annex applies then he can't play for us irrespective of the passport as he wasn't born within the terroritory of the FAI, hasn't got a parent or grandparent born here or lived here for 2 years.
Dermot Aherne may have scored an own goal here by getting it accepted that players can play for NI with an Irish passport. You can now argue that even his Irish nationality qualifies him to play for NI and RoI and therefore the Annex applies.
The more I look at it the more complex it gets.
"However, if FIFA rule that he is also British because he was born in the UK and also played under age football for one of the British Associations, then the Annex may apply etc"Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
This misunderstands my point. When Yugoslavia broke up into several independent countries, of course FIFA recognised this (obviously!) and permitted each country to set up its own independent Football Association.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
But it is a long-established and universally enforced principle that e.g. the Government of Serbia cannot interfere in the running of the Serbian FA, or the Slovenian Government in the running of the Slovenian FA and especially that the Serbian Government cannot interfere in the running of the Slovenian FA (or vice versa).
Otherwise, FIFA will suspend or terminate the Membership of the Association of the offending Government, which invariably does the trick. If you search FIFA's Website, you'll see that this happens all the time. Recent Governments which have been forced to back off have included the Greeks and Kenyans.
(It's the same with the IOC, btw)
HA. FINALLY!!! That one post is it in a nutshell. Its not even a footballing matter. End of thread? Please, pretty please??Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Given that he was still a minor when he switched he could still claim on the nationality issue. FIFA allow changes up until aged 21 and courts in most countries distinguish between decisions made by U18s.
To be honest, while I understand the urgency of Northern Ireland's fans in wanting to get this matter clarified (and I don't just mean in relation to Darren Gibson), it is beyond me as to why they would want to basically force someone, who has no interest in playing for them, to do so or to at least prevent them from playing for the country that they feel represents them.
My own belief is that regardless of the legalities of the situation it would be disgraceful to prevent people born in Northern Ireland from playing for the Republic of Ireland if that is the team that they wish to play for. I would also be amazed if this was to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
For how many of those years have you been playing under the Ulster [sic]/loyalist banner?
More hysterics on OWC. Can you send e-mails in green crayon?
"FIFA can stand by and do nowt.
What we should all be doing is contacting the National asscoiations of ALL possible opponents of the ROI and make them aware that if they play Gibson and others against them then they are breaking (potentially) FIFA rules and should appeal to be given the game.
This is where action will be done.
Like someone said earlier can you imagine the kick up if Gibson scored the goal that knowked the Germans out....?"
You are manufacturing a hypothetical situation of complications and interpretations ignoring how the statutes are applied in arbitrating declaration issues all over the world by FIFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
A national born in another territory of course is entitled to another citizenship. There are plenty of examples of that. That is obvious here but not pertinent and actually irrelevant in his declaration for Ireland.
What matters to FIFA, first and formost, is that he has an automatic right to Irish citizenship no matter what part of the Island he is born.
I am impressed by how much FIFA go out of their way to protect the civil rights of a young footballer.
Now you're back and Marty has joined us, you can go ask him about his feelings about someone from the 26C playing for/supporting Northern Ireland. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
I'm on the case already, and have contacted the Spanish and Swedish FAs with the contradiction between Maik Taylor et al never having lived in the 'footballing jurisdiction' of the O6C, and the fact that they play for the representatives of the 'footballing jurisdiction' of NI. Probably stands a better chance of success as well than the case against us. I would love to see the reaction on ourweeminds if it went against them. LOFL!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Maroon 7
EG, Army Groupie, Not Brazil. You hang around with some babies.
Wouldn't even bother. Also if the poster quoted by Maroon 7 is anything to judge the site by - and I know it's not an isolated post - you could be in trouble with several police forces around the world as an adult entering a site that is clearly the domain for pre-pubescent children. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
I'm surprised the issue is still under discussion as it's already been resolved by FIFA's top legal guys.
The IFA complained to FIFA in Feb 06 about Alex Bruce not qualifying for Ireland as his grandmother came from Bangor in Co.Down and they received the same answer as they received in the FIFA response of October 06 "the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'."
The issue is not really about Darron Gibson to be honest, as the IFA are fully aware of his right to represent Ireland, its about the future and trying to change the rules to stop young Irish players from the North of Ireland representing Ireland at international level.
I presume they are getting pretty desperate when they are getting their international manager to tell lies about Darron Gibson and the IFA running a witchhunt against the lad in the media.
The existing rule stands, and its the same rule that allowed Ballynahinch's Andy Kilmartin to represent Ireland in 1999 and the same rule that allowed Derry's James Quigley to represent Ireland back in 97.
The FAI need to play hardball over the issue and resist any attempt from the IFA to change the rules allowing young Irish players to represent their country.
I would love to know why the IFA made no representations to FIFA over Henry McStay, Saul Deeny, Kevin Deery etc... playing competitive u21 football for Ireland in the past.
at least Howard Wells might get a new 12 month contract out of it, isn't his contract nearly up ?
Only one change is allowed before age of 21. Darron was already tied before he received a senior cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
To be honest I couldn't give a tuppeny fcuk how Marty would feel about a person born in the 26C playing for Northern Ireland. If the hypothetical player was entitled -then he's entitled and that's the end of it for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
If Marty or any other NI fan has a problem with that then they're only being as narrow-minded as some of ours who give the hairy eyeball to non-Ireland born players who opt to play for us.
"Now you're back and Marty has joined us, you can go ask him about his feelings about someone from the 26C playing for/supporting Northern Ireland."
everyone i know supported them in 82 and 86 , my own ambivalence towards the northern ireland team began after the 1-1 game. i am not too bothered about their results either way apart from the obvious pangs of jealousy when they beat a good side like spain etc. etc.
Your right; I had a post fully written but I cannot even be bothered to send it now. I have had my academic ability questioned, been called a hypocrit and I have been warned before and had my post deleted when I have lost my rag and personally criticised somebody. However that post is still on this site; anyone care to answer why?Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
That was me that was.Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1