UEFA Coefficient

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26/10/2008, 11:09 PM
holidaysong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maribor

Not really a coefficient question but....

City are now in the Cup Final, Bohs have already qualified for the Champions League. The Cup winners go into the 2QR of the UEFA Cup, so for the process of qualification do we take this spot or does it go the 2nd in the League?

Yes, Derry City will take the Europa League spot for the FAI Cup so you will enter one round after the two qualifiers from the league - St. Pat's and whoever comes fourth (assuming they have a licence).
26/10/2008, 11:50 PM
TheBoss

I think you are wrong here:

Derry City must win the FAI Cup to get that place, if they do not win, than St Pats get it. Its a new rule that UEFA have put in, the team must win the Cup in order to avail of the place.
27/10/2008, 10:43 AM
holidaysong

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBoss

I think you are wrong here:

Derry City must win the FAI Cup to get that place, if they do not win, than St Pats get it. Its a new rule that UEFA have put in, the team must win the Cup in order to avail of the place.

I'm 99% sure that the rule about having to win the cup to get the place was proposed but never actually implemented. That is the reason why a win for Galway yesterday would have ensured them a Europa League place..
27/10/2008, 10:44 AM
fionnsci

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBoss

I think you are wrong here:

Derry City must win the FAI Cup to get that place, if they do not win, than St Pats get it. Its a new rule that UEFA have put in, the team must win the Cup in order to avail of the place.

I thought that came in next year?
27/10/2008, 4:06 PM
Heliodorus

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

I'm 99% sure that the rule about having to win the cup to get the place was proposed but never actually implemented. That is the reason why a win for Galway yesterday would have ensured them a Europa League place..

Yes, thats correct. UEFA changed their minds.
27/10/2008, 4:56 PM
passerrby

i think (not 100% sure ) that the rule was passed but not sure if it kicks in this season or next
27/10/2008, 5:18 PM
thischarmingman

Quote:

Originally Posted by fionnsci

I thought that came in next year?

Yeah that was what I though too, it's only from next year.
27/10/2008, 7:36 PM
Heliodorus

Quote:

Originally Posted by passerrby

i think (not 100% sure ) that the rule was passed but not sure if it kicks in this season or next

Quote:

Originally Posted by thischarmingman

Yeah that was what I though too, it's only from next year.

Derry do NOT need to win the FAI cup to qualify for the Europa Cup. UEFA changed their minds. http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...ded.4535784.jp
27/10/2008, 8:21 PM
DmanDmythDledge

So what's the story with next season's qualification? I think I have it right (as things stand):

CL- Bohs
UEFA (cup)- Derry
UEFA (L1)- Pats
UEFA (L2)- Sligo
Intertoto- Shamrock
27/10/2008, 8:28 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

So what's the story with next season's qualification? I think I have it right (as things stand):

CL- Bohs
UEFA (cup)- Derry
UEFA (L1)- Pats
UEFA (L2)- Sligo
Intertoto- Shamrock

Theres no intertoto.

Also it depends if we get a Uefa license or not. Hasnt been clarified if we're automatically banned for 3 years.

I expect we wont get one but its not certain
28/10/2008, 8:49 AM
OneRedArmy

If Bohs do the double and Pats finish second, my understanding is that Pats will enter Europa Cup at QF2 and Derry at QF1. This is a distinct and different rule to whether the losing Cup finalists can enter Europe at all.

At least I think thats what Michael Hayes said in the Fans Forum.

Hopefully won't be necessary, although from a coefficient perspective, both Pats and Derry have the same club coefficient so there's no difference to seeding.
28/10/2008, 9:05 AM
Heliodorus

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Hopefully won't be necessary, although from a coefficient perspective, both Pats and Derry have the same club coefficient so there's no difference to seeding.

There actually is. If the breakof point between being seeded and not being seeded happens at a point where two teams have the same seeding co-efficient, preference is given to the club which gains entry to europe via the cup spot.
28/10/2008, 9:14 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heliodorus

There actually is. If the breakof point between being seeded and not being seeded happens at a point where two teams have the same seeding co-efficient, preference is given to the club which gains entry to europe via the cup spot.

.......and as stated above, that will be either Pats or Derry, who have the same club coefficient.....
28/10/2008, 10:19 AM
Heliodorus

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

.......and as stated above, that will be either Pats or Derry, who have the same club coefficient.....

Derry have qualified for Europe. Runners up in the Cup are allowed into the Europea Cup. UEFA reversed their decision.
28/10/2008, 11:41 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heliodorus

Derry have qualified for Europe. Runners up in the Cup are allowed into the Europea Cup. UEFA reversed their decision.

I'm not disputing this, see below for my previous post.

My understanding (straight from the horses mouth) is that cup losers will qualify where League winner wins cup, but won't get into QF2, that privilege will revert to 2nd in the League. If you know different maybe you can tell me where you are getting your info from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

If Bohs do the double and Pats finish second, my understanding is that Pats will enter Europa Cup at QF2 and Derry at QF1. This is a distinct and different rule to whether the losing Cup finalists can enter Europe at all.

At least I think thats what Michael Hayes said in the Fans Forum.
23/07/2009, 8:39 PM
CuanaD

Resurecting the Coef thread
Tonight's results are goos for the league - HJK were knocked out - so Finland and ourselves have just 2 representatives left.
& after tonights games I think we have just moved ahead of them on the 2010 access list:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...crank2010.html
After the update I think Finland will have 9.124 points & Ireland will have 9.166 - moving us up to 29th provisionally.
23/07/2009, 8:53 PM
DmanDmythDledge

If we get up to 29 we would have an extra team in the Europa Cup next season, entering at the 3rd qualifying round.
23/07/2009, 8:57 PM
holidaysong

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

If we get up to 29 we would have an extra team in the Europa Cup next season, entering at the 3rd qualifying round.

No we wouldn't, we would need to get up to 15th to get an extra team into Europe. The next significant goal is 27th which would guarantee our Cup Winner entering at the QR3 of the Eurpopa League (29th would do if the title holder was already qualified - like how Derry got a 'bye' this year).

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...ccess2009.html
23/07/2009, 9:00 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

No we wouldn't, we would need to get up to 15th to get an extra team into Europe. The next significant goal is 27th which would guarantee our Cup Winner entering at the QR3 of the Eurpopa League (29th would do if the title holder was already qualified - like how Derry got a 'bye' this year).

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...ccess2009.html

That's what I was looking at.

Does that not show four teams for 29th place at the moment?
23/07/2009, 9:06 PM
holidaysong

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

That's what I was looking at.

Does that not show four teams for 29th place at the moment?

Yes, one CL and 3 EL. But we have that at the moment anyway.

The reason it shows two 'CW' spots though is because the title holder had already qualified so therefore the cup winners from 28th and 29th got a bye into EL QR3 - for the same reason that 'N2' of 35th (Derry City) and 36th got a bye into EL QR2.
23/07/2009, 9:26 PM
paul_oshea

is the europa league only 3 qualifying rounds like the uefa cup? If derry were to beat sofia then they woud go into group stages?
23/07/2009, 9:27 PM
sligoman

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

is the europa league only 3 qualifying rounds like the uefa cup? If derry were to beat sofia then they woud go into group stages?

No, there's a play-off round after the next one.
23/07/2009, 9:28 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by sligoman

No, there's a play-off round after the next one.

play off round sure isnt that exact same thing as another round i heard that before but was then confused by a previous post, or is it a neutral venue a one off game?
23/07/2009, 9:34 PM
sligoman

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

play off round sure isnt that exact same thing as another round i heard that before but was then confused by a previous post, or is it a neutral venue a one off game?

No, it's 2 legs. Winner goes into group.
23/07/2009, 9:34 PM
paul_oshea

Qualifying
In matches in the three qualifying rounds and the play-off stage, clubs play two matches against each other on a home and away basis, with the club scoring the greater aggregate of goals qualifying for the next round. In the event of both teams scoring the same number of goals, the team which scores more goals away qualifies.

i dont see the dif between play off and QRs is it simply money?
23/07/2009, 9:37 PM
Sheridan

It's called the play-off round because it's the final qualifying round and they're playing off for a place in the group stages.
23/07/2009, 11:10 PM
tiktok

AFAIK it's called the play-off round because the losing 3rd round Champions League Teams join at this stage and compete against the Europa League 3rd qualifying round winners for the group stage spot
23/07/2009, 11:13 PM
Sheridan

I don't think so, because the last qualifying phase in the CL is also called the play-off round(s). Obviously just the preferred nomenclature in Nyon.
23/07/2009, 11:20 PM
tiktok

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheridan

Obviously just the preferred nomenclature in Nyon.

Cheers.

By the way, I've been drinking and just tried to read the above out loud...with hilarious consequences [well, hilarious to me, drink may be making it funnier].
24/07/2009, 8:20 AM
pineapple stu

There's half coefficient points for qualifying rounds, so maybe there's full points for this round, so they can't call it a qualifying round?
24/07/2009, 8:21 AM
Duggie

lads so far where do we stand after all those rounds ??
24/07/2009, 8:26 AM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggie

lads so far where do we stand after all those rounds ??

We're standing behind Finland and but ahead of Lithuania.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...crank2010.html
24/07/2009, 8:33 AM
Duggie

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

We're standing behind Finland and but ahead of Lithuania.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...crank2010.html

cheers, were doing well. look at a country like norway down in 19th place now. the finns are doing well also.
24/07/2009, 10:25 AM
paul_oshea

its funny when you look at countries like cyprus and croatia and compare, croatia have always been a strong enough international competitor(like ourselves I'd like to beleive) but yet lie 7 or so places behind cyprus in that table, a relative poor international team up until the last few years anyway. Maybe Ireland isn't the only country with problems :)
24/07/2009, 2:19 PM
HarpoJoyce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggie

lads so far where do we stand after all those rounds ??

The country ranking is already confirmed.
35th place this year and 30th place next year.
24/07/2009, 7:43 PM
christo

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpoJoyce

The country ranking is already confirmed.
35th place this year and 30th place next year.

How gaurenteed is that move up to 30th place, are we likely to be caught by Latvia or Bosnia or maybe even Lithunia
24/07/2009, 9:58 PM
holidaysong

We were 30th last year and 35th the year before. There is a two year delay in the league ranking affecting where your clubs enter, as clubs need to know before their league begins how many places their country will have in Europe in the following year..

e.g. In 2007/08 European season we were 35th but it wasn't until this season that this ranking was applied to us - so that clubs in the 2008 LOI season would know how many places etc. were available for this year..
24/07/2009, 11:50 PM
HarpoJoyce

double-edit
24/07/2009, 11:53 PM
HarpoJoyce

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

We were 30th last year and 35th the year before. There is a two year delay in the league ranking affecting where your clubs enter, as clubs need to know before their league begins how many places their country will have in Europe in the following year..

e.g. In 2007/08 European season we were 35th but it wasn't until this season that this ranking was applied to us - so that clubs in the 2008 LOI season would know how many places etc. were available for this year..

holidaysong you are correct that figures are gathered over Five years ( and not four years plus one continous changing year). And the last year was completed two seasons ago so that clubs/countries on border-line seeding lists are not told of a change at short notice either beneficial or detrimental.

But it is the year that it is applied to which matters.

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl...id=788260.html
"Coefficient ranking
A country's representation in the UEFA Champions League is determined by its UEFA coefficient ranking, which is calculated over a five-year basis. The list below is provisional, however, and is subject to final confirmation from UEFA.

2009/10 UEFA Champions League access list
....
35 Republic of Ireland CH
...."

It's as plain as day that this year the Republic of Ireland are ranked 35th.
The UEFA coefficient is as simple or complex as a domestic Division table, while holidaysong has shown a genuine interest in the calculations there are people who insist on trying to make the system appear complicated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by christo

How gaurenteed is that move up to 30th place, are we likely to be caught by Latvia or Bosnia or maybe even Lithunia

I am very sure that Rep. of Ireland will move up to 30th spot.
Linked above UEFA.com 35th spot 2009/10. To my eternal embarrassment I will now use the bert kassies website to show next years completed five year Country ranking.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...crank2009.html
"....
30 Ireland ..."

This ranking list (with some minimal changes if any from UEFA) will be put in motion by UEFA at the start of next year 2010/11. So already, everyone in summer football in Ireland this year knows exactly how many places (rewards) are available to them and can plan the competitions accordingly. Simple.
Again this is based on the Five year fixed calculations and not the four year plus one continuous year which is the calculations two years from now.

(It used to be alot worse, I remember foot.ie when one of the Mods used to note the half-time scores from the qualifying rounds e.g. Moldova v. Serbia-Montenegro and change the UEFA Five Year Coefficient accordingly for half-time. Things have got a lot better with posters like holidaysong here.)
25/07/2009, 1:21 PM
paul_oshea

does 30th benefit in any way such as entering qualifying at a later stage or being seeded or is the seeding down to an individual teams points?

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