Shelbourne FC Demoted to First Division - All Purpose Thread

Gareth, in some other thread in the last fortnight, I explained how I separate Shels fans from Shels the club. For the likes of Shels fans such as yourself (a minority), yes, I do feel sympathy on account of what youse have invested over the years, same as any of us.

However, for me, your club exists in a bottomless pit of loathing. You can bang on about history and 1895 and all that, but I only have to go back to 2002 to find plenty of reasons to enjoy watching Shels suffer.

Thanks for the Setanta spot, by the way. ;)

Drogheda invited them to play games in utd park a couple of seasons ago .Dont think it was ever likely tbh ,more to do with the license application deadline coming up .

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Is it yer man O'Reilly? I have the accounts somewhere; I'll dig them out and have a look.

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Is it a guy called Richard Campbell?

Buller, it was closer to half that. If Tolka does vanish out of the frame, it leaves Rovers to sit back and enjoy a Dutch auction between us and Bohs, couldn't see them having to pay much more than a grand a game for either Richmond or Dalymount.

If it was down to me, I'd take yisser money no problem.

It's on the main computer, which is broken unfortunately.

Campbell doesn't ring a bell though.

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Originally Posted by drummerboy

The developers must be rubbing their hands at the sight of the Shels meltdown.

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I don't agree. The council own the ground; Shels own the lease. If Shels go bust, the council have a ground and would be in no real rush to lose another city-centre-ish amenity. The developers' only hope of getting their money is by getting Shels into a new ground alive.

Most of the times Ollie went to the courts he was proved right. The League was run so amateurishly they just made it up as they went along, setting stupid precedents that had to be challenged.
Many other clubs rode on Shels shirt-tails whenever we challenged another stupid ruling. That's something I'm rather proud of.

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Originally Posted by steno

Your not alone there poor student I have lost count on how many times someone has said that they have heard that Kildare County would be the next club to go.

The loss of any club is a sad day for irish soccer simple as that. Shels do deserve to suffer the consequences of their overspending but I would never like to see them go to the wall. Hopefully the Eircom league clubs (and shels) will learn from this.

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Well any club who refuse to show EL matches in their club bar (kildare county) as there was a premiership game on, no wonder people would be glad to see the back of you, asked could i watch the cup semi last season (cork V derry) and was told where to go, you can hardly claim to support the league,

as much as i hate $hel$ would hate to see them disappear, the league would be a much the worse without them, (or for that matter steady clubs like UCD)

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Originally Posted by Gareth

I remember well the buckets galway supporters brought to other el grounds and finn harps play a match in all the grounds in 24 hours? Was that right?

I wish a bucket collection would help shels.

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But it wouldnt be to help $hel$ it would be to help Oillie Byrnes finances as he owns the club, can see too many eircom league fans rushing to throw there money away to save oillie's finances.

It would be a completely different matter if the real $hel$ fans had control of the club.

That said i hope Finbarr Flood pulls it out of the bag and gets you to the end of this season in one piece.

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Originally Posted by Gareth

I remember well the buckets galway supporters brought to other el grounds and finn harps play a match in all the grounds in 24 hours? Was that right?

I wish a bucket collection would help shels.

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Indeed, I spent a late friday night in Baldonnel waiting for SBB ina shui and his mates to arrive.

Nobody stayed around to throw a few bob into the buckets as they were hours behind schedule, feeling sorry I gave them what remained in my wallet as a personal donation only for one pr ick, then a senior figure to compain that it wan't enough.

Garth, you didn't happen to notice all the goodwill that clubs like harps, Galway, Derry, Limerick and even Rovers received when they stared extinction in the face. Do you not ask yourself why el fans, almost to man, wished all those clubs well and donated money, bought raffle tickets etc etc

Now read the posts (still a moinority) wishing Shels would die and ask yourself why? If you can't find the difference or don't knwo the answer, there's no hope for Shels fans.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Buller, it was closer to half that. If Tolka does vanish out of the frame, it leaves Rovers to sit back and enjoy a Dutch auction between us and Bohs, couldn't see them having to pay much more than a grand a game for either Richmond or Dalymount.

If it was down to me, I'd take yisser money no problem.

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We know, you ****ing hoop

Like most people, I'm no fan of how Shels treated the league and other clubs around them in recent years but I still wouldn't want to see them go to the wall. I wouldn't want to see any club die as I know how I felt 6 or 7 years ago when it was us. We fought tooth and nail to save our club at the time and only cleared up the debts last year.

It looked as if we were in big trouble but we survived and have one of the most modern football stadia on the island beginning construction in the next few months. It was us, the fans, that saved Finn Harps. It was the same at Derry, Rovers, Galway, Dundalk and Cork.

Shels are a big name and I'm sure there are people out there who will help. If the fans care enough to save the club, you will survive. It won't be the Shelbourne you know, you'll have more in common with Monaghan and Kilkenny for a few years but at least you'll still have a club.

Hopefully something will work out for yis Gareth. You are one of the good guys and I do feel a lot of sympathy for the genuine Shels fans. You will get a lot of goading (Shels fans weren't exactly renowned for being good winners) and slagging. But that is football.

I know what you are saying about the eircom league but when it really, really comes down to it - most football fans don't give a flying fúck about any other team or club in the world apart from their own.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Fans wouldn't care either.

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Oh I geddit, the whole rest of the Pats community is allowed not care but if I have no problem, it's U-turn city? :D

I just like the idea of Rovers covering half the cost of Joey Ndo's wages and Shels' former Setanta spot covering half the cost of Gary O'Neill's wages.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Oh I geddit, the whole rest of the Pats community is allowed not care but if I have no problem, it's U-turn city?

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Exactly...

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't agree. The council own the ground; Shels own the lease. If Shels go bust, the council have a ground and would be in no real rush to lose another city-centre-ish amenity. The developers' only hope of getting their money is by getting Shels into a new ground alive.

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The council still own the actual land regardless of whether Shels stay afloat or not.

The developers are likely to end up controlling the lease on Tolka regardless of whether Shels stay afloat or not (as a result of the deals previously done by Shels).

To be honest, in terms of developing the Tolka Park site, the fate of Shelbourne FC is basically irrelevant at this stage.

Wouldn't happen anyway, as the residents would go bananas. They kicked us out of Richmond when we were there before. Then when we were back in, they insisted on us playing at a ko time that suited them. There are other grounds available with half the hassle of playing there.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

couldn't see them having to pay much more than a grand a game for either Richmond or Dalymount.

If it was down to me, I'd take yisser money no problem.

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Considering how much we had to pay Pats and Bohs the last time, why would the price suddenly be dropped by a third this time?

Well i know what its like to nearly go out of business, we faced that horror about a year and a half ago, it got so bad 1 night about 20 of us (yes thats all) hit a few local housing estates to try and sell lotto tickets to pay for wages for that week etc..
No LOI club should go out of business, we need every club in it, but in fairness the way shels traded over the last few years in 1 way i dont pity them , they bullied their way around and in merrion sq.
Its up to the FAI now to sort this mess out and implement their so called great new policies and also the ideas that in which the IAG set out to invite clubs into the premiere should now be closely looked at in shels case, obviously there was serious cooking of the books and lies told to obtain their licence.
No shels should be left survive, maybe a few years down in the 1st division to regroup might be the best thing ever happened to them ,as they say a stark dose of reality works wonders.
Good luck to them and Ollie should now F***off for the sake of the club and its fans.

I definately would not like to see them go to the wall but
they should definately be reprimanded for their actions
be it demotion/points deduction etc.

Its not nice when any team goes out of business as it
reflects badly on the League that we all are trying to promote

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Originally Posted by mcgonigle

Any of those wishing Shels demise should think of their club in Shels position and what it would be like, lets face it, it could happen any club at any time

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You're missing the point. We were in a position nearly as bad and as a result we did what any normal club would do. We scaled back. Shels solution was borrow more, get into more debt, they have themselves to blame. Pure greed has left them where they are now.
As we said, go to Shelsweb and see what they were saying when it looked like we might go to the wall. You're right that what goes around comes around and its coming around for Shels right now.
I feel sorry for people like Gareth alright but lets face it, theres not many Gareth's down Tolka way. Take a look at the Dalymount groundshare thread at Shelsweb, see what prominant Shels fans such as Cassidy were saying about us then rethink your sympathies.

On the publicity factor, I agree clubs going out of business mean bad publicity for the league but Shels have brought plenty of that over the years anyway with their court cases and what not.

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Originally Posted by The Sheliban

That's something I'm rather proud of.

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:rolleyes:
and you wonder why we hate you lot.

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Originally Posted by jebus

Love the way everyone on this forum harps on about Irish football and promoting it and yet they want to get rid of the one club the average football fan in Ireland has paid any attention to in recent times

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Why have they paid attention to them though? They mainly made the news because of fecking court cases. The rest of it was clearly now built on a house of cards, and any good their one decent European run did for the credibility of the league has surely been undone by this winters debacle.

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Originally Posted by jebus

As for Galwayhoop harping on about Shels buying success and how its wrong, aren't you a supporter of the club that took Dundalk's place in the Premier because your club is richer? Isn't that what that all boiled down to?

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YAWN, it's gettin old. you're like a broken record. Why are you still here? this is an Eircom league forum.

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

Is it a guy called Richard Campbell?

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THE FUGITIVE? :eek:

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Originally Posted by GuisaSaigon

YAWN, it's gettin old. you're like a broken record. Why are you still here? this is an Eircom league forum.

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Wow, I see what you did there, that's really, really, really, really, really clever. Good boy :rolleyes:

To think some people question the legitimacy of Galway supporters attitudes when they contain within their ranks such fine intellects as the example above.

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I'm pretty disappointed this evening. Not because Shels are going out of business or could be, but because the league I have devoted so much of my time to seems to be partly rejoicing about Shels demise. I am not blind to the fact people anger about Shels buying the league, and Shels were spending above their abilities to fund and that the trouble is self made. That is grounds to be a bit ****ed off about Shels behaviour. However a club of such long history and its support and presence to the league over the years should be remembered for their history and not their immediately present.

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And herein lies the problem with the EL, and with Irish society in general. When you look at two teams from limerick city going against eachother, for whatever reasons, there should be one team with everyone behind that team from limerick. Until this starts happening in irish football the problem are always going to exist as you will never have the support/fan base you need for a club to exist and build on. It really is sad to see how people laugh at a club going out of business and the rest, like what happened when the same happened dublin FC, genuine supporters of league of ireland football would be getting behind eachother and helping eachother out, not begrudging and "told you so" attitude we see from every corner.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

genuine supporters of league of ireland football would be getting behind eachother and helping eachother out, not begrudging and "told you so" attitude we see from every corner.

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YAWN.
This is getting so old. If you are getting into a thread at least read what was said before. There have been many examples where EL supporters helped other clubs out with donations but the Shels case is different because they got where they are now through shafting everyone else.
I don't like to see the corner shop down the road who's owner has worked hard and honestly, going out of business but I'm f'ckd if I'm going to lose any sleep over Enron. Get it now?

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Wow, I see what you did there, that's really, really, really, really, really clever. Good boy :rolleyes:

To think some people question the legitimacy of Galway supporters attitudes when they contain within their ranks such fine intellects as the example above.

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Sorry Lim 'till i die, Your response to Saigon went right over my head, so maybe you're spot on to ast aspertions on our intellectual capabilities...

On the other hand, it was Socrates (not the former Brazilian medic & World Cup star who offered the follwoing food for thought:

"The first step to wisdom is to acknowledge my own ignorance";)

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

And herein lies the problem with the EL, and with Irish society in general. When you look at two teams from limerick city going against eachother, for whatever reasons, there should be one team with everyone behind that team from limerick. Until this starts happening in irish football the problem are always going to exist as you will never have the support/fan base you need for a club to exist and build on. It really is sad to see how people laugh at a club going out of business and the rest, like what happened when the same happened dublin FC, genuine supporters of league of ireland football would be getting behind eachother and helping eachother out, not begrudging and "told you so" attitude we see from every corner.

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This is minnowism of the highest order. Shels fans have repeatedly been told they were heading for a very big crash and they chose to ignore the warnings and gloated about how great they were, how they were the true leaders of Irish football and how they were the model for other clubs to follow.

12 Months ago Bohs and Shels were in talks about a groundshare at Dalymount and this was posted by Comical Cassidy on the Shels MB.....

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A mixture of rumour, speculation & wishful thinking by Bohs that Shels will bail them out of their financial difficulties.

Shels are committed 100% to moving out to Lissenhall
http://forum.shelbournefc.ie/chat/vi...er=asc&start=0

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There are many other posts on the Shels forum gloating about how Shels buying in to Dalymount will be the saviour of Bohemian FC. Its amazing how the tables have turned.

If Shels go to the wall then I wont be upset in the least. They were committed to contracts to the tune of nigh on €2,000,000 a year knowing damn well they couldnt afford them so they could deny other clubs spending more realistic sums a title and a shot at achieving in the CL.

All the time they were accusing other clubs of rule breach's and threatening court action for whatever reason, and behind it all they were the biggest cheats of all. I dont want Shels to die now. I'd prefer to see them slowly die in the First Division over the next 5 or 6 years.

In November 2004 Ollie Byrne slated Bohs on national TV for not playing Crowe, Hawkins and Ryan in Cork. His words were "small club with a small mind". I'll resist the temptation to say something really nasty but if the guy was more interested in what was going on in his own club and not interfering with every other club's business then maybe he wouldnt be were he is and Shels wouldnt be €10M+ in debt.

http://irishfootballonline.com/news_...hp?newsid=2376

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Originally Posted by MyTown

Sorry Lim 'till i die, Your response to Saigon went right over my head

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Yet you still felt this strange compulsion to reply :confused:

As far as Shels were concerned, the Champions League place was theirs and only theirs and always theirs.

Anyone who came near to challenging for it - by fair and legal means - was threatened with court action.

That's what dragged the name of the league down. Nothing else.

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I don't like to see the corner shop down the road who's owner has worked hard and honestly, going out of business but I'm f'ckd if I'm going to lose any sleep over Enron. Get it now?

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I did read it, and i took most of one point from what gareth said, one man with 99% control, not listening to the genuine fan. I also understood the "attitude" of many fans to your club, having read your posts, but as a genuine follower, without small-minded mentality getting in your way, you would realise the bigger picture would look a lot better with a club as well known across ireland. that is why I based what I said around. Good man, as ever you have to give the stupid socialist attitude, the corner shop man existed in the town enron were formed, about 20,000 of them ( "corner shop men" - ill explain for ye, working hard to survive with little knowledge of what to do with any little money they might have to invest ) to be precise, they lost out of retirement money, pension plans, share dividends etc because of a "few" men in this case, so don't be giving another crap example. This can be completely parralled to the genuine and fair-minded shelbourne supporters and who ran their club.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I did read it, and i took most of one point from what gareth said, one man with 99% control, not listening to the genuine fan. I also understood the "attitude" of many fans to your club, having read your posts, but as a genuine follower, without small-minded mentality getting in your way, you would realise the bigger picture would look a lot better with a club as well known across ireland. that is why I based what I said around. Good man, as ever you have to give the stupid socialist attitude, the corner shop man existed in the town enron were formed, about 20,000 of them ( "corner shop men" - ill explain for ye, working hard to survive with little knowledge of what to do with any little money they might have to invest ) to be precise, they lost out of retirement money, pension plans, share dividends etc because of a "few" men in this case, so don't be giving another crap example. This can be completely parralled to the genuine and fair-minded shelbourne supporters and who ran their club.

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Shels are a big club and a well known name, but its Shels, and if they vanish as a result of their own reckless behaviour then tough. Not too many of their support were worried about how they were paying for the titles so I wont worry about what they'll do if/when the poxy little club folds.

The bigger picture is if this league is to flourish we need strong, well run clubs with proper facilities. Shels certainly werent looking at the bigger picture when they threatened court action over every decision that went against them.

Shels fans accused Bohs of cheating in August 2006 when we played a suspended player. The cheek of them, accusing us of cheating when they were cheating their way to a title. We cheated our way to 3 points that we ultimately lost [i think] in a season we finished 9th.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I did read it, and i took most of one point from what gareth said, one man with 99% control, not listening to the genuine fan. I also understood the "attitude" of many fans to your club, having read your posts, but as a genuine follower, without small-minded mentality getting in your way, you would realise the bigger picture would look a lot better with a club as well known across ireland. that is why I based what I said around. Good man, as ever you have to give the stupid socialist attitude, the corner shop man existed in the town enron were formed, about 20,000 of them ( "corner shop men" - ill explain for ye, working hard to survive with little knowledge of what to do with any little money they might have to invest ) to be precise, they lost out of retirement money, pension plans, share dividends etc because of a "few" men in this case, so don't be giving another crap example. This can be completely parralled to the genuine and fair-minded shelbourne supporters and who ran their club.

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nobody has a problem with genuine fair minded shels supporters, what they do object to is fraudulent trading, unfair competitive advantage via falsefied records and illegal payments and above all the subsequent damage that did to every other club as it pushed up wages to untenable levels and left the rest with problems that could very well obliterate them too. They cheated, and they cheated in a way that threatens more than just the future of their own club. On a fan level I genuinely hope they get their club sorted (under a new guise - with a realistic financial grounding and ambition). But anyone who champions their activities over the last 5 years as beneficial to irish football should be told to stay behind after school and take extra lessons. As they is clearly a stupid head!*



*deliberately dumbed down for the thickos at the back of the class.

It's called survival of the fittest, and from my perspective Shels don't look strong enough to survive - tough, but in life, fair. The real lesson to be learned for all genuine supporters of eL clubs is - focus on your own club, support them, be opinionated and be careful not to crow too much now about the demise of Shels- danger for many eL clubs, and Galway especially is that they don't over extend themselves, as Shels have.

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Shels are a big club and a well known name, but its Shels, and if they vanish as a result of their own reckless behaviour then tough. Not too many of their support were worried about how they were paying for the titles so I wont worry about what they'll do if/when the poxy little club folds.

The bigger picture is if this league is to flourish we need strong, well run clubs with proper facilities. Shels certainly werent looking at the bigger picture when they threatened court action over every decision that went against them.

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Yes, and that is right but most importantly fan base and support, and strategic and change management is required, to my mates and most people I know ( non EL followers ) seeing the most recognised club folding smacks to them of a sh1te league. Why? Because they never knew of how hte club was run, its not common knowledge outside of EL circles, but who is fairly well known outside of EL is Shelbourne, as being a team capable of doing well in europe and of being successful in the league over the last 3 - 4 years. When these people see ( who your clubs need to be attracting ) the "best club in the EL" folding, it will confirm in their minds how badly run and sh1te the league and standard of football really is!!!

Isnt it funny how the people who have a problem with Galway being a well run club are (or is that were "till I die") fans of a club that was such a shambles that they werent even fit for the 1st division.
The league needs well run clubs not pathetic organisations that rent a field with with a truck trailor off a priest, or gansters with dodgy accountants.
All that intellect didnt do much to save your club or did you even try?

Gareth,

There's plenty of EL goodwill around. Over the years many posters here will have morally or financially supported fellow clubs when they've been in trouble (as many of our clubs have been). But I doubt you'll feel much of that love down Tolka way.

And the simple reason for that can be summed up in 2 words. *Ollie*. *Byrne*.

Ollie is an evil little man who has made an absolute sham of our league in order to ensure that his own club is always pushed to the top of the sh!t-pile. He is like the maddest crab in a bucket - continually climbing all over eveyone else in there with him, in the vague hope that it might save his ass at their cost.

He has bought definitely one, and probably as many as 3 league titles in the last 4 years through cheating - spending money his club simply didn't have. That is clear as day. He has also bullied and threatened to get his way on every single issue. He has been more than happy to drag the league's public reputation through the mud again and again, as part of his petty little tactics to get his own way. And he has been involved in incidents with fans, fellow managers, and God knows who else.

The man is a petty-minded thug, a convicted criminal, and borderline insane. the fact he is currently ill doesn't change any of this.

And the reason why all of this has converted into a dislike of Shels is that, for so many years now, Ollie Byrne IS Shelbourne. In recent times(since anyone with a brain and ability fled your Board) he has been the one and only voice of Shelbourne. When there have been complaints in the press, it's always been from Ollie. When there have been threats of court action, it's always been Ollie. When there have been altercations with Managers and fans, its always been Ollie.

And ratehr than see the danger the man presented, Shels fans were delighted to have him as Mr Shelbourne. How lonbg have people on here and else well been telling you that Ollie Byrne is a liability, and was unhelathy for your club ? How many times have fans of other clubs pointed out that Shel's financial position was completely untenable ? And in return, how often did you and other Shels fans brush off such comments as mere jealousy, constantly singing Ollie's praises - 'He's saved us before, I have faith in Ollie to do it again'. Well Gareth - you can tell from the festering pile of sh!t currently smothering Tolka that the chickens have finally come home to rest en masse....

To summise - I personally have no issues with Shels as a club per se, just as I don't with any other club. It's the individuals involved with clubs who tend to colour your judgement of them, and none more so than Ollie Byrne. Through his attitude, his actions, his words and his deeds, Ollie has consistently turned the world of Irish football against him. And as he and the fans have crowned him 'Mr Shelbourne' and made the club inseparable form him as an individual, he has likewise turned the world of Irish football against your club.....

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Good man, as ever you have to give the stupid socialist attitude,

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Paul you have a real chip on your shoulder don't you. You feel the need to drag my politics into every post you make regardless of the topic. This is flaming. I'm sick of your jibes at this stage..

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Paul you have a real chip on your shoulder don't you. You feel the need to drag my politics into every post you make regardless of the topic. This is flaming. I'm sick of your jibes at this stage..

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To be fair BP - your signature drags your politics into every post you make yourself.....! :)