Guardian today gave Giggs MOTM but gave "an honourable mention to Gibson, the young Northern Ireland International". God, if only they knew the hornet's nest that could open up...:)
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Guardian today gave Giggs MOTM but gave "an honourable mention to Gibson, the young Northern Ireland International". God, if only they knew the hornet's nest that could open up...:)
Giggs was undoubtedly MOTM imo. He was head and shoulders above everybody. Gibson was better than I've seen so far but nowhere near deserving of the praise he's receiving here. I find it strange that he gets so much praise for putting in a solid performance against a Championship side, in a match where his team are in cruise control from start to finish yet when the likes of Garvan or whoever do this week in week out they are still considered completely unproven. Still though credit where it's due it was a decent enough showing for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Gibson is doing it for Man Utd albeit only occasionally. Garvan is doing it for Ipswich. There is a big difference. Alex Ferguson saying nice things also carries more weight than Jim Magilton.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarelyLegal
I've high hopes for both players. Garvan needs to play at a higher level. I actually think he'll be a better player at a higher level too. Gibson needs more games too.
Gibson's playing at the same level when you consider he's only played once in the premier. he's a semi regular in Cup competitions but mostly against lower league opposition
Outside of training Gibson isn't playing at a higher level that Garvan at all. 3 games v Championship strugglers Derby in the past 2 months is hardly evidence that he can "do it" at Man Utd's real level. I agree that Fergie's comments would hold more weight than Magilton's but it's hardly gospel, he did sign Liam Miller after all so things don't always pan out as he expects either.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
A visit from Ealing Green is surely due......................Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Happy to oblige and point out that it would take three or four injuries (at least) for young Mr. Gibson to get a place in the centre of NI's midfield, were he ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
You're welcome to him*. ;)
* - And Alex Bruce, for that matter. :p
I will re-post this exactly one year from today. You will cryQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I don't really think it's comparable though. A player may dominate games against SPL opposition for Hearts yet look out of his depth at Celtic for example against the same opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Keep yer mits off St. Ledger too!!Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
not even ahead of Grant McCann???:)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I know what you mean but I still think that Gibson has achieved very little so far, even compared to the likes of Garvan. Just because he's on the books of a big club doesn't mean he'll turn out better than some of the other players that are missing out at present. I can only go by what I've seen so far (taking level of competition into consideration) and Gibson has done ok in the 2 most recent games I've seen him. United have scored 8 goals in these 2 games against absolutely shocking oppostition in Derby. I'm sorry but if he looked out of his depth in either of these games I'd be seriously worried, he didn't but I'm still not convinced. Hopefully he'll start the Carling Cup Final, that should lead to a lot more realistic assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
It's not hard to look out of your depth playing alongside Ronaldo, Giggs, Anderson and Scholes who he has played with in those 2 games though.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarelyLegal
Playing well in central midfield of a decent Man Utd team against division 1 team
vs
Playing well in a championship team vs Man Utd
I'd take a lot more encouragement out of the first one. Kris Commons looked brilliant in 2 games against Utd. But could he play in the Man Utd team? No chance.
Watching a player play in a world class team, alongside world class players, will give you the best idea of what level he's at. That goes for a central midfielder more than any player I think.
He's a carbon copy of Carrick IMO but the Derry man will be better.
You'd probably have a valid point if it wasn't such a struggle to name one NI midfielder let alone 3/4. But then again if they were any good they'd be looking to play for Ireland and not NI.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
What's yours is ours but not vice versa ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
We have to remember one thing he is only 21 years old.
he at possibly the best club in the world at the moment and the midfield selection that United have is there strongest that I can remember in terms of strength in depth.
I am still not fully convinced that Gibson is United material but its encouraging that he is getting mom in these games all the same ahead of players like Ronaldo, Evra, Giggs and Carrick.
I think he needs more time and he is defo not a winger. Play him in the centre where he is most comfortable and I think Gibson maybe (i say that with slight caution) will become a very solid player for United in the future.
Very complimentary feature on Gibson in today's Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...oys-boots.html
‘Fergie told me he watched the game against Cyprus and he thought I did well.’Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Well Holy God!!:confused:
Steven Davis (24) and Damien Johnson (30) have approx 300 senior League appearances between them, around 200 of them in the EPL.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
During his 150-odd senior League Appearances, Sammy Clingan (25) has worked his way up to being one of the best midfielders in the Championship. His club (Norwich) rejected a bid for him by Fulham at Xmas.
Between them they have 100 caps.
Gibson, who has made (I think) the grand total of 1 start in the EPL, would be competing with Grant McCann and Michael O'Connor for a central midfield place in the event of two of the above being injured/unavailable.
Rugby? Cricket? Hockey? Oh, you mean "Republic of Ireland"...Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Ah right, that must be it: Davis, Clingan & Johnson were worried they wouldn't get a place ahead of the likes of Keith Andrews, never mind Darron Gibson.
Reminds me of a conversation on this Board from a couple of years back, where somebody pointed to Paul McShane's striking out and leaving Man Utd for a Championship club as "proof" that he was a better Centre Back than Jonny Evans, who opted to stay and fight for his place at OT.
Still, I bet Evans is glad he didn't elect to play for the ROI, eh, since he'd never get a place in that line-up? In fact, I expect he feels a bit embarrassed at having just signed a piffling five year contract on quadrupled wages for MU, prior to representing them in the Champions League against Inter in the San Siro next Tuesday.
I wonder what position Gibson will be playing that night? ;)
The same one Johnny will be in the return at Old Trafford. They might even sit beside each other. :D You will get a chance to see Darron at Wembley though.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
We also have the hugely talented Steven Reid and somebody else who is player of the season for the richest club in Manchester. Both are badly missed in our central midfield.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
If a player doesn't want to play with us, then we don't "have" him.
Who, who and who? Sorry I genuinely never heard of either of those players.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Never heard of Grant McCann either. As for Michael O'Connor he only decided to play for the B team when he was told he was surplus to requirements with the Ireland A team.
Why are you having a go at Kieth Andrews. He's the find of the premier league this season.
Dont be spouting crap about your pub team up north having better players than the Ireland team.
Duff
McGeady
Ireland (not available yet I know)
Stephen Reid (also not available before you feel the need to point it out)
Gibson
Whelan
Hunt
Thats an unbelievable squad of midfielders.
Whats frightening is there is better younger players on the way!
By the time the next qualifiers come around that will be by far our best area of the pitch.... Gibson, Ireland, Garvan, Whelan, O Toole,McCarthy, Gleeson,Fahey,Steven Reid, Andy Reid,Andrews all in center midfield... If half the young players full fill their potential it is a mouth watering prospectQuote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
I'm sure Evans has his Final place nailed as well to be fairQuote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Dont forget marc wilson id say if not a centre back he'll develop in to a fine midfielder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
And there is bound to be someone else that we wouldnt think of right now.... just like no one would have said Andrews this time last yearQuote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
In fairness Clingan is a bit of a Kenny Cunningham - not a big club player but took to international football like a duck to water. I've heard he has been exceptional at times for Norwich this season.
Funny thing is, that just shows what we've been missing. We don't need a world beating midfield, just a competitive one, one that can hold its own. NI's midfield has certainly done that in the last couple of years. We might just be getting there but it's been a long 5 years.
On paper our emerging CM options are really encouraging, it's just that how many times have young Irish players just not made it for one reason or another? Sadlier, Thornton...Stokes?
Speaking of which, where is youngirish these days?
he got suspended and i dont think he came back...
MU turned down £8m for Evans from another EPL club at the start of the season, at the same time as Gerard Pique, frustrated at not getting games, was sold to Barca, where he is firmly established as CB in the starting XI, getting called up by Spain last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
At the same time, Gibson turned down a loan to Peterborough United of League One (Fergie Sr. doing Fergie Jr. a favour?), because he couldn't agree personal terms.
Gibson is doing OK at OT and given time, might develop into a useful squad player. But whilst that's highly creditable, there is no sign he'll get any further.
Whereas Evans is firmly established as 3rd choice CB behind Ferdinand and Vidic (i.e. ahead of O'Shea, Brown or Neville) and has been publicly identified by Ferguson as their successor.
So what you're saying is that if the two Stephens were available, Gibson wouldn't get a look-in in the ROI midfield?Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
That's hardly different from what I'm saying i.e. if Davis, Johnson and Clingan were available, Gibson* wouldn't get a look-in in the NI team, either
* - Assuming he wanted etc etc
Do u honestly believe those 3 players are in the same class as Steven Reid and Steven Ireland???Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I'd say that says more about you than it does about them...:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Except O'Connor hasn't been playing for NI recently, either. My point was that if Gibson had opted for NI, even in the absence of our three first choice CM players, he still wouldn't be guaranteed a place ahead of the likes of O'Connor and McCann in our starting XI.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Not having a pop at Andrews - fair play to the guy for taking his chance at Ewood. What I would say is that were he from NI, he wouldn't have got a look-in to our starting XI before this season. Nor has he done enough so far this season to "leap-frog" the three incumbents (imo).Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
I don't think I've ever claimed that our "pub team" (charming as ever, btw) has better players than the ROI. Rather, my contention is that our players have often "overperformed", whereas yours have often "underperformed".Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
This includes our Central Midfield, where whatever you think of Davis, Clingan and Johnson's club record (significantly more accomplished than Gibson's, btw), in their combined 100 caps, they have regularly performed to a level far in advance of anything we've yet seen from Gibson, at either club or international level.
Er, we're talking about Gibson, who is a Centre Midfielder, so Duff, McGeady and Hunt are irrelevant. More particularly, we're discussing whether Gibson would get a game for NI, had he opted to stay with us. My contention is that he wouldn't (at least until he's done significantly more in his club career)Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
As for Ireland and S.Reid, if they were available to Trapattoni, Gibson almost certainly wouldn't get a game for ROI, so I fail to see how your citing them supports your argument - quite the contrary, in fact.
Bully for you! But now you mention them, what relevance do they have to assessing whether Gibson is of international calibre (ROI or NI) or not? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
In which case, Gibson may struggle to gain many more international caps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Just like he would have, had he stuck with NI...;)
Spot on, S88.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
As for Gibson, from what I've seen/heard, whilst he's been by no means bad for ROI, and it's not for me to disparage Trap's selections(!), neither has he been an aforesaid "duck to water", either.
Which may explain why his inclusion in the ROI's starting XI has not received universal approval from your fans?
No, especially Ireland, (although if Steven Davis can fulfill the potential he displayed as a kid at Villa, at 24 he could imo go on to be better than Reid).Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Anyhow, all I was saying is that unless or until his club career moves up a level, Gibson would not get into the NI Centre Midfield ahead of them.
I get what you are saying but Gibson to me looks like his is developing into a very good player.His progress at United this season has been excellentQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Central midfield is, without doubt, a problem area for us. I think we have plenty of options but we haven't found the right balance/partnership for the centre in Steven Reid's absence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
NI's results speak for themselves. A comparison of Stan's competitive record shows that he amassed more points that Nigel Worthlesston was capable of doing in the same number of games. If we are to believe EG, NI's team has a strong spine - ie central defence, central midfield, strikers. Unfortunately for his assertion, the results suggest otherwise. It's also hard to know if NI's midfield was competitive under Sanchez as the midfield was invariably by-passed with long balls up to Lafferty.
No doubt if Gibson was NI eligible, the OWC would be purring at the prospect of a hope that he could come into their team and assist that bunch of over performers out of their destined (overperformed), 'odds on' 5th place, just ahead of San Marino.
The jury may be out on Gibson, but I think its pretty clear what Johnson and Clingan are - Journeymen!!. Davis is a bit of an enigma, looked promising at Villa, anonymous and ineffectual at Fulham and a decent performer for Rangers, but there again Liam Miller looked like a worldbeater in the SPL.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Evening all.
So far in this series, our best outfield players have been Biggles McCartney (left back) and McCann in either centre or left midfield. The centre backs have been OK. It's worth saying that McCann has outshone Brunt from two divisions higher- the most skillful individuals don't always fit in an effective team. That said, and for all Grant's goalscoring against the village teams, in an ideal World I'd rather have a ManU player in his position ;)
Jonny Evans- the Champions' League's ambassador to NI- has been hot and cold in our games. He looked ropey against Slovenia, at fault for goals and lucky not to be sent off.
Geysir- I feel more confident having at least avoided the banana skin in SMR. A Euro-worth of your kronor says we scrape fourth place?
EG -
I agree with you on young Evans - a fantastic young player. He is one of the best young centre-halfs I've seen in quite some time. I only wish he played for us, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He is as you rightly say ahead of Gibson in the pecking order at MU, comparatively speaking. He is now third choice at centre back and is, as you say, better than O'Shea, Neville and Brown.
Gibson is obviously further down the pecking order in his own area of the pitch. Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Anderson, Fletcher and Hargreaves are all ahead of him. Gibson though, is ahead of Possebon - his rival out of the MU youth sides. However there is a difference here, in comparison to Evans.
Scholes and Giggs will most likely be gone at the end of next season. Hargreaves is suffering from long-term injury. Fletcher, while useful, is only an above average squad player. Carrick and Anderson have both developed into very good players, both exceeding my expections of them. However neither player is, to use that much over-used word, 'great,' nor will either one ever be a truly great player. In conclusion, I suppose neither player represents any kind of insurmountable obstacle or daunting challenge for any talented young player, like Darron, hoping to break into the first team.
This is in contrast to Evans, who although now third choice and a fantastic prospect, does face having to dislodge either Ferdinand or Vidic - and that ain't gonna happen. I see the Ferdinand/Vidic partnership remaining at MU, barring serious injury of course, for at least the next 3 seasons.
In that respect Evans' challenge is greater than Gibson's. :p