I'm pretty certain it was the old regime that relieved you of Roddy.
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I'm pretty certain it was the old regime that relieved you of Roddy.
It's not POTM - it's largely more uninformed tripe from Partizan.Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
There is nothing concrete or forward-thinking in the proposals. There is no concrete indication as to how we are to progress once clubs are cherry-picked. There is no concrete indication as to why this is very good for all of us. In fact, there are so few concrete facts that Delaney is having to recourse to threatening clubs about the consequences of voting against to get this through (as quoted in the papers at the weekend; will try and get a link source).
Take it on the chin?! Ask me hole. If UCD - or any other club for that matter; again, I can obviously only speak for UCD and UCD fans myself - get forcibly relegated, we'll lose three or four of our best players, as happens every relegated team. (Maybe we're just more ambitious that you) That alone will set the club back three or four years. What a superb way to move the league forward "from top to bottom."
UCD's place in the league is secured? I disagree strongly. However, regardless of that fact, these proposals will make a mockery of and bring ridicule to the league. Ask any non eL fan what they think of it and they'll laugh and call it typical gobsh!tery from the FAI. That's the pretty much unanimous response I've gotten. That's a great basis to boost crowds - alienate even further those who don't go to games.
Potentially, I do (infrastructure aside). But it's irrelevant. We're ahead of you on the pitch, which is the best reflection of both on-field and off-field position. As the smallest club in the Premier, the fact that we can compete week-in-week-out for the last 12 years is possibly a sign that we do have our house in order?Quote:
Originally Posted by Partizan
I think, with respect, that your post - while largely valid - would carry more weight if Dublin City were to oust the person doing the exact same thing at that club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breifne
Stop making it personal. Your club will be gone soon. Examinership is better than liquidation btw. Amusing little revisionist rubbish anyway!! Trying to compare CHF with us:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Breifne
Pineapple IMO Partizan's post is POTM. Less of the siege mentality. Its getting old already. "Ask any non EL fan what they think of it". Hope you're joking. Who cares what they think? It is a way forward.
Also you say that relegation means that 3 or 4 of your players will leave and this sets back the club 3 or 4 years. That's if you have no ambition. We lost ALL of our players from last season and with a whole new team are unbeaten this year. It's not an anti UCD conspiracy. Who is to say that UCD wont be part of next year's premier?
KOH
Aren't they they very people we're trying to get to games?!Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
Eh...no? Players always leave a club if it gets relegated. It's a fact of football. I don't see how we have no ambition if we're looking to keep on to our two Ireland U-21 internationals, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
We also lost a few players when we went down and walked through the league the next season. That's not to say it hasn't set us back. That's not to say it hasn't set youz back.Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
I've read through the document and I don't agree with the assumption that UCD should be in trouble. If the conditions are followed fairly, Shamrock Rovers seem to me the only first division team that could overtake UCD. I don't agree with the concept of picking teams but these proposals do, at least, seem to be transparant and probably as fair as you can get from this type of a system.
Should point out that I don't think we're beyond redemption, but we're certainly in a weaker position than the league table suggests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
Did you uncover any basis for allocation of marks for the off-field criteria on the bus on Saturday?
One thing I can't quite figure out. Delaney has been going on about geoprahical spread and there is a point in the document about it too, but is it factored into the selecting formula or not? I don't seem to be able to specifically find it.
Shouldn't really form opinions on it without reading the documentQuote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
It's included in sustainability, I think. It's in there alright, but as part of something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
I have. Sorry if I didn't state that clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
D'oh!!!! I'm and idiot and aoplogy for not being able to read.
There's 15% there to be fooled around with (marketing etc) so its not totally transparent
Probably enough to get rid of Dublin City but no enough for UCD. I'd settle for that i suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
There's a little room for interpretation in each of the criteria but the document does lay out how the marketing points should be allocated (below). It says the current attendances and the population of the area should make up the score. I still don't agree with the concept but there is much less room for manouver than simply saying a club should have good marketability or potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Quote:
Target Markets / population
densities / attendance
figures (04 & 05 figures
already available)
100 points
Using population data to highlight densities against existing clubs
and the trends in their attendance rates.
Those applicants, which stand alone in areas of large target markets
and which have established a solid base of support as indicated by
their consolidated attendance figures will be allocated high scores in
this category.
Couldn't you argue both that UCD are the only club in the South East quadrant of Dublin and have huge potential or conversely argue that that there are too many clubs in the Dublin area? The parameters in the non-footballing part are still relatively undefined and subjective.
I see near the introduction they say that the Implementation Committee focused on to "Provide an adequate geographic spread of clubs" as one of the goals put forward by the Genesis Report.
I think you UCD fans are underestimating the potential that 10 well supported teams in a Premier Division has.Quote:
Originally Posted by northside hoop
I was always behind the idea of a large league probably around 16 teams but the past year or two I just think it would do more harm than good at the moment. I am now in favour of a more structured approach and think the 10 team idea is the way to go. I know this doesn’t happen until the 2009 season but regardless of it being 10 (which I think is about the realistic amount) or 12 I think the fact all games have a decent crowds is key to what the FAI are doing.
Its all about routine and getting fans interested in all the games. You have too many games now where the fans wont turn up. For me the worst for this is UCD Dublin and Longford. At nearly all other HOME games for Shels there is enough there to create some sort of atmosphere. Now I know the 1000-2000 is still nowhere near good enough but it feels like you have been at a game and not some kick about.
If you can get this type of feeling in all grounds every week of the league season I think it could help increase crowds.
You also forget a 10 team league means we play each other twice so we get two Shamrock Rovers gates and two Bohs Pats Cork Drogheda etc etc. You may not like this but I find UCD and Dublin City games to be absolute rubbish and I can only put my finger on the lack of atmosphere and interest there is.
How you can go to Belfield every 2nd week is astonishing in my opinion. Well done to any of you who do but your team has NO ambition!!! Its not Pragmatism its NO AMBITION!!! …. Everyone goes on about Dublin City here but I don’t mind them as at least Ronan has some idea of what he would like even if its highly unlikely ever to happen. You blame the college for your lack of development in Belfield ??? Is it not up to the club to sort that out…. You have been playing there long enough now to have a proper structure in place. You have been in the premier division long enough now to have put some money back into your ground. You cant turn around and say the FAI are giving you half a season.
Facts are if your club had any intention of doing anything other then surviving every single season you would have something worthy of calling a ground.
Your Stand is a complete disgrace and I would have asked to use a double headed coin in the toss for the League Cup final if I were you.
I'm not saying you don’t deserve your place in the 22 and I'm not saying you are the bottom of the pile either but some of the nonsense you lot have come out with trying to defend UCD is annoying.
Open your eyes and have a look at what your club is.
Actually can you tell me what your aims are for the coming season ?????
I follow Shelbourne as you might have noticed and I can sure as hell tell you exactly what the aim of Shelbourne FC is and its not to just survive. You could be playing the surviving game for the next 100 years!! Give it up and live a little. Try do up your ground or try something.
You are a joke of a club in my opinion, not because you are attached to a College in some form or have the name UCD but you have no intention of going anywhere or doing anything.
If we all adopt the UCD attitude we all sit around saying how crap everything is and never try anything new!! What do you expect to happen??? Do you think John Delaney and the FAI should release a statement saying the EL is doomed and we have decided to do nothing as we think its pointless, now carry on. You lot would be first to complain as usual.
i know i shouldnt bother but a few points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breifne
we paid far more than 4% of our debts. i dont know where this figure came from, but not even close. and what we did was 100% legal and transparent.
and the 'stealing' of your non-contracted manager happend a year before examinership. and if by starting 'new' you mean in the 1st with 3 contracted players, yeah, what a deadly plan. :rolleyes:
roma and lazio and the milan clubs share a municipal stadium 50/50. you are renting. not the same thing, not by a long shot.
as for your last sentance, thats laughable from a chf fan. i suggest you spend your energies figuring out where your next wage bill will be funded from than giving out about a group of fans who put their money where their mouths were and stopped these nefarious practices from ever happening again at their club
Will you not be renting from the SDCC going forward? Do Cork not rent Turners Cross, so what is the difference in DC renting from another team?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
the other team are in the process of selling up for one.Quote:
Originally Posted by chippie0001
commercial opportunities like perimiter ads and refreshments for another.
you telling me cork, waterford, derry, rovers, milan and roma having a (for example) 200 year lease on a stadium is the same as chf renting dalymount?
profoundly different
Shelbourne eh? This the same Shelbourne who on completing a league and cup double in 2001 attracted 900 people for their first home game the following season against newly promoted Bray who brought over 200 fans to the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
This the same club that brought 100 fans to Flancare park for a possible title deciding game in 2004?
If you ask me there's an equal amount of nonsence coming in both directions. If UCD are going to continue in the premier as it improves we're goning to need bigger crowds & a better stadium, there's no question about that. It's not accurate though to accuse us of sitting on our hands and showing no ambition. 1.6 million has already been invested in the Bowl to bring it up to soccer specs and when the planning board rejects the appeal which is holding the rest up another million will finish the job this summer. The fact of the matter is that UCD, aswell as a lot of other clubs, just can't afford to run up a loss of a million euros a year chasing league titles and call it ambition.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Are we really? The Premier Division has contained most of the league's biggest clubs throughout most of its history. What good has it done the league? You can replace UCD and Dublin with Limerick and Shamrock Rovers but you will not make a monumental difference. It doesn't seem to bother you that shifting teams on such bases is somewhat odd or not football like. You seem to be talking about it like it's something normal. Your end result for doing this bizarre and unfair thing is not a huge amount of difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
How are you going to get these people to come because you've added a couple of bigger games to the calendar? Are they even going to notice? Do you not think there's something more fundementally wrong preventing these people from bothering to support their local side than them having to play UCD instead of Rovers one week?Quote:
If you can get this type of feeling in all grounds every week of the league season I think it could help increase crowds.
You're seriously minimalising the league's problems here. If you can't get fans to come to Tolka every week then a couple of games against UCD and Dublin City have little to do with it. This is even the first time both clubs have been together in the Premier Division.Quote:
You also forget a 10 team league means we play each other twice so we get two Shamrock Rovers gates and two Bohs Pats Cork Drogheda etc etc. You may not like this but I find UCD and Dublin City games to be absolute rubbish and I can only put my finger on the lack of atmosphere and interest there is.
Our team has their own ambitions. To stay in the Premier Division, to do well in the cups, to continue to develop talent, to increase the fanbase, enhance community links. Look over across the water to the Premiership. There are some clubs who's ambition is to avoid relegation, others to achieve midtable security, others to challenge for UEFA cup spots, others CL spots and a few the title. That's the reality of football, varying clubs with varying ambitions, goals, resources etc. It is pragmatism. You've lost all scope of footballing reality. Crewe Alexandria have a reputation for developing football talent like UCD and are actually lauded for it.Quote:
How you can go to Belfield every 2nd week is astonishing in my opinion. Well done to any of you who do but your team has NO ambition!!! Its not Pragmatism its NO AMBITION!!!
See, here's where you pragmatism and reality comes in again. Read some of his statements of the club's goals and try not to laugh. He has no sense of reality. All long term goals and plans must be tempered with reality and pragmatism.Quote:
Everyone goes on about Dublin City here but I don’t mind them as least Ronan has some idea of what he would like even if its highly unlikely ever to happen.
You tell me then, why is the Riverside a wreck? Why is the Ballybough (the one opposite the Riverside?) totally outdated with giant unsafe steps? You're not making much of an effort to sort out Tolka either? Why is that? Because you don't own it? You're planning on moving away? Or you can't afford it? I don't know myself, but a lot of it is in a bad state and for reasons beyond your control or lack of finances you can't be arsed to sort it out yourselves.Quote:
You blame the college for your lack of development in Belfield ??? Is it not up to the club to sort that out…. You have been playing there long enough now to have a proper structure in place.
We've upgraded it gradually and we were going to upgrade it further but the college has other plans for it, not much we can do.Quote:
You have been in the premier division long enough not to have put some money back into your ground. You cant turn around and say the FAI are giving you half a season.
That would be why we're working on it and have applied for planning permission.Quote:
Facts are if your club had any intention of doing anything other then surviving every single season you would have something worthy of calling a ground.
Some of the stuff you come out with is equally annoying.Quote:
I'm not saying you don’t deserve your place in the 22 and I'm not saying you are the bottom of the pile either but some of the nonsense you lot have come out with trying to defend UCD is annoying.
To avoid being arbitrarily relegated by a committee.Quote:
Actually can you tell me what there aims are for the coming season ?????
Hence the planning permission.Quote:
Try do up your ground or try something.
Yes we do, but because it falls short of megalomanic desire for world conquest that offends you. Ever played Football Manager? Notice how when you pick different clubs the boards give you different aims depending on the clubs you pick?Quote:
You are a joke of a club in my opinion, not because you attached to a College or have the name UCD but you have no intention of going anywhere or doing anything.
There's nothing wrong with the salary caps, added prize money, assistance for marketing etc. There is something wrong with arbitrarily assigning places. Don't pretend I am against all progress or ideas.Quote:
If we all adapt the UCD attitude we all sit around saying how crap everything is and never try anything new!! What do you expect to happen??? Do you think John Delaney and the FAI should release a statement saying the EL is doomed and we have decided to do nothing as we think its pointless, now carry on. You lot would be first to complain as usual.
Nothing more than a vague feeling, so? Based on the fact that the myriad away fans in the league would prefer more home fans to interact with? Hardly a solid basis for cherry-picking, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
That appears to me to be your problem, not ours or the league's.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
This would be the same team who are arguing aganist being kicked out of the Premier? Real lack of ambition there. The same team who have consistently punched about their weight for the last 15 years? Real lack of ambition there. Of course's there's plans going forward, including a structure for full-time football. (Couldn't be bothered going into them in detail though, as it's the wrong thread and as you strike me as yet another of the closed-ears brigade.)Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Pure ignorance beginning to show through here, I'm afraid. There were plans in place - planning permission had been sought and achieved, in fact - for a full redevelopment of Belfield Park about 3 or 4 years ago. The first phase was a 1200-seater stand on the hill, with changing rooms, hospitality area, etc. There were three other phases in place as well. Then the college decided it wanted the land to build a new facility, so we had to ditch our plans and row in with the college's. So yes, it is the college's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
I have no idea what that's supposed to mean?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Given your recent financial trouble, that should be your aim.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Like the new ground that has planning permission in?Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
That's OK. I made my mind up about your opinion a while back.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Should point that that's a no-brainer. No-body's saying we - or any other club - don't want to improve. Just that we shouldn't be punished for improving at a different rate to others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
Yes thats them...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie
They also happen to be the Shelbourne who for the most part have a decent sized crowd in EL terms at most home games ie Games when we dont play UCD, Dublin City.
Dont come on here saying Shels get bad crowds. In EL terms we are up there in the top 3 or 4 every season.
We can all pick the odd game here and there where crowds dont turn up! That happens to every team, rain tv public holidays exams god only knows why but lets stick to averages.
I think it might just kickstart something that could grow and with the added extra of prize money extra TV coverage and hopefully all clubs encouraged to spend more on Marketing no it doesn’t bother me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Life is too short to sit around and do nothing. Lets give it a try. Its football and its one season in the life of any club. If your as well run as you say you will be back up in 2008 with Shels and their 10,000 average fanbase :)
Eh!!! You may have not noticed this being a UCD fan but there is a massive difference in gate money between playing a well dupported Dublin team and a not so well supported Dublin teamQuote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
I know and as you can see teams are hit with poor crowds now twice !Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Its realistic to say you will survive and you will try avoid relegation. I don’t for one second think Shels will win the Champions League but EVERY SEASON lads EVERY FECKING SEASON you are at this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Are you not sick of it yourselves?
He is up there in the clouds but I'd like to have tried and failed rather than not try at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Oh come on ???????Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
The fact you can even put in the word step makes any of them whole heap better then the scaffolding out in Belfield.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQuote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
OK please please telll me the gradual improvements you have made to Belfield going back 10 years or so ?
You gradually let the grass grow is about all….
What other ground has a keep off the grass sign ?
Please tell me the improvements you have made
Of course you cant aim for the title this season but maybe if you had any other plan other then survive you could put together this thing they call a long term plan ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
For some club who you say is so well run you don’t seem to have any long term objectives.
If anyone could put their finger on the reason to why they would have by now. I can only offer my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
NO NO!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
We are all part of the one league.
My comments are made with the league in mind.
Your club is one of the few who are unwilling to progress at any decent rate.
I am not closed to anything???Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The facts are nobody knows of your plans except for you few and maybe that’s part of the reason you appear to lack ambition.
Lets hear the plans…
You said you had great plans for this new bowl idea too but when it comes down to it your looking at 1,500 seats !!
Amazing Stuff
Explain all this to John and co.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
If he is feeling sorry for you, you may get an extra few points…
Probably bring along some guy to play the violin while your telling him the story..
That recent financial trouble was sorted and we are now moving on as a club. Everyone has had problems in the past and if Shels did fold it wouldn’t be the first club to ever do so. It may be a live by the sword die by the sword attitude you would not be happy with but I for one really enjoyed singing my heart out on the steps of the Riazor Stadium in the Champions League when we were 0-0 with Deportivo after 135 mins of football…Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
In fact Croatia was a really nice place too and I had never been to Lille either.
If you want I can send a postcard from Lithuania
You look forward to surviving and let the rest of us enjoying living life.
I agree you can take the above 'living by the sword….' to its limits and that’s not a good thing but you have to take some risks in football.
Well, I'm convinced so. Let's all move ahead with this ridiculous idea on the basis of a vague hunch that no-one can put their finger on despite 12 pages of trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Exactly the reason why you can't screw over a couple of small clubs for the benefit of the big ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
I hardly think it's surprising few people outside of the club have heard of the club's plans. It's not exactly everyday conversation, is it? The fact we keep ourselves to ourselves doesn't mean we don't have a plan in place. I don't know of Shelbourne's precise plans going forward - for getting a ground, for sorting out their debts, etc. Doesn't mean they don't exist. I noted before that this isn't the thread for discussing UCD's plans. If you want to take things off topic, open a new thread elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Who said we had "great" plans? We have plans. They're a big improvement on present. Is that not acceptable?Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Of course it is. Gone away, never to resurface.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Do you want to ask Bray fans about their club's plans to win the Premier next year? Or Harps? Or Waterford or Bohs or Sligo or Rovers or Athlone or Limerick? Or all the other clubs who know they aren't going to win the league next year but still have plans in place? Is "Win the league" the only plan you can comprehend? If so, you have absolutely no clue about the bigger football picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
If we're going to discuss Dublin teams costing other Dublin teams money, will we bring up how long it took you to pay us? You try and screw us out of E20k and you're worried about lost revenue from maybe 100 Galway* fans?Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
* - Not a dig at Galway. Just wanted an example of a team possibly to come up, but not Rovers as a Dublin team.
Here you are, though I think I've given you the link before.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
http://www.dlrcoco.ie/planning/planlist/2006/APES14.htm
There was a pre-planning meeting in the county council two months or so ago about bringing the total capacity up to 4,400 seats within 5 years but I can't find a link to anything other than a low resolution map. If I do stumble across the diagrams I'll post them up though.
There's to be a playoff between 11th in the premier and 2nd in the first for who will be ranked 12th or 13th gaining the winner 1 point. Even worse, in the very likely scenario that one or both teams aren't within a ranking point of the team above or below them in the 200 points for the current season, it will make no difference at all to their overall score because in that section it's the ranking and not the overall score that counts.
This has the potential to be one of the most pointless end of season game in football's history.
Quote:
At the end of 2006 playing season, clubs will be allocated ‘competition points’ on the basis of
their League standings and performances in FAI & League Cups and Europe. When the total
‘competition points’ accrued by each club is tallied, they will be ranked accordingly – the club
with the highest number of competition points is ranked 1, with the club with the lowest number
of competition points ranked 22 for the purposes of the IAG process.
League: Premier Division League winners receive 22 points, runners-up 21 points reducing on a
point per position down to 1 point for bottom place in the 1st Division.
Last place finisher in Premiership in regular season will be ‘relegated’ => ranked #14 in league
standings and allocated 9pts
1st Division winner will be ‘Promoted’ => ranked #11 in league standings and allocated 12pts
Club finishing 11th in Premier will play off against 1st Division runners up.
Winners of the play off will be finish #12 in League standings and gain 11pts
Losers of the play off will be ranked 13th and allocated 10pts.
does anyone who doesnt support ucd have any objections to this plan?
There's been a number of them posting here already. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
have they? must have got lost in 17 pages of 4 UCD fans telling us all the world will end if this proposal comes to fruition.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
I do. Hugely. Can't believe anybody wants to put the game we love in the hands of the FAI. An organistation who have show themselves capable of doing NOTHING correctly and who have shown ZERO interest in our league previously (the head of this organistion was always involved when a memebr of the league reached its lowest point)Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
Oh and calling it the Premiership and Championship is/are pathetic. Truly poor decision.
I object to the return to a ten team premier, and to the vagueness of the points system for next year. I think the 5 year record is a bit of a joke and that the football side should be based on this year only, despite the fact that that doesn't suit Harps at all. The plan has plenty of good points, but unless clarified completely and executed transparently could descend into total farce.
The same club that attracted 24,000 supporters for a champions league game. Whats your highest attendence ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie
You wouldn't get that for a Premier game. Anyway a lot of those were only there because of the occassion and weren't actually Shels fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
At least they got them in. They got to see an eircom league side play, and who knows, some may have been converted.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmandmythdledge
It'll be a cold day in hell when UCD get 24,000 in to watch them.
I'm pretty sure more than that saw us loose to Everton in 1984 and that was only the cup winners cup!Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
We got 23,500 in May 1995 in Lansdowne Road for a game with Liverpool to celebrate our Centenary ! We were just crowned First Division Champions too for the record.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc