Collins had a shocker, what is it with him, you never see him being so poor when with Brentford, while O'Shea was very poor as well, both are Championship average players!
Collins had a shocker, what is it with him, you never see him being so poor when with Brentford, while O'Shea was very poor as well, both are Championship average players!
Thank you, tp.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
But let's be honest, wouldn't that just be adding to your embarrassment after Yerevan, not alleviating it?
For our answer would surely be "Thanks, but no thanks, we're quite happy as we are..." :wink:
Didn't Kenny try Collins as a DM and it was a disaster?
How many people will watch the game back/have watched the games back and consider what they previously thought regarding individual performances? And the managers role (or the coaching ticket role to be more precise).
- I think back to the post-Hungary clamour about the substitutions and how they were pivotal. Ogbene this, Doherty that.
- then think to the selection yesterday. and the pre-match talk of must-win, positivity etc.
The most obvious selection was Idah. New move, match-saving goal, fit and willing to run channels. Start him, feed off that positivity. Because one thing is we did start positively yesterday. The selection of Jack Taylor was correct, but he's not a number 10 and playing him there was stupid. Just as it was stupid moving Finn Azaz wide to accommodate this. Taylor was by no means the player who should have been sacrificed at h/t yday. He worked a really good chance (about 15 mins in maybe?) that the keeper saved, where he could possibly have looked for a penalty. To me, he's an old style 8 who'll get up and down. Asking him to do an 10-8 hybrid job is not just funny, it's retarded. He runs like a dog and was covering space that was no coincidence that when he went off we got filleted.
There was no need to play Cheap-ball and Knight together yday*. Knight is a quicker, Cullen with more stamina (like-for-like if you will). Play Taylor beside one of them and keep Azaz central.
* My bias for Molumby is undiminished and not in a Wes/Reid/Healy cause de celebrité way. He's a ****, but he's taken totally undeserved flak on here and elsewhere for other short-comings. of the current crop, he would be my go-to CM player, whether that's holding to allow two licence further forward or as part of a two traditional with one further forward. He also actually passes the ball forward and progressively, something sorely lacking. That he has been jettisoned from the squad is not just short-sightedness, it's reckless imo.
If one was to look at an Ireland first 11 right now, assuming all are fit, there are 3 players* who must on the teamsheet - that nobody can argue with - and that leaves 8 players playing for their spot.
Kelleher, Parrott, Ferguson.
Either Ferguson plays off Parrott, or Parrott plays off Ferguson.
I'm specific about players rather than positions, because no formation seems to work for us.
I see a lot of Collins and I can tell you, he's better than Championship, much better. Dunno about O'Shea, but I saw Cullen play earlier this season at Brentford and thought him actually very good in an otherwise average Burnley team - their best player in fact. (Ironically, both NC and JC were captaining their respective teams that day i.e. no shortage of leadership there, I must say)Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
Anyhow I didn't see the Armenia game, but from reading the various comments etc, my guess is that this ROI team is sorely lacking in conviction, not ability. And this is probably a culmination of a gradual decline from the last days of O'Neill/Keane, then Kenny, with O'Shea unable to stop the rot either. And now finally it's HH who, whatever his other qualities, has stepped into a mess that he's unsuited to turn around.
Whereas - and I'm sure you won't thank me for saying this - with NI it's the opposite. That is, whether we're up against weaker, equal or stronger opposition, we usually have a plan which the players all believe in, designed by a manager in whom they certainly believe, such that we don't get too far ahead of ourselves if we win, nor do we get too downhearted when we lose, we just give it a go. Which if I may say so, is pretty remarkable in such an incredibly young team, drawn as it is from a level below that of ROI i.e. Championship, League One or SPL also-rans.
To which the answer for the FAI must be, appoint the right manager and give him time to turn around the present players and/or replace them with new faces, so that in another campaign or two, the team can start to get back on track. As for who that manager might be, I can't really say, but it needs to be someone who "gets" ROI football, and has a real care for it, rather than some outsider who's only taking it because he can't get a better gig elsewhere.
Robbie Keane perhaps?
Good point. There was no scanning or awareness of their surroundings or call it what you will versus Hungary on Saturday. For what it's worth I played in a team for eleven years. We had 2 simple rules for defending corners - pick up the man closest to you and attack the ball. It resulted in the concession of only 2 goals in eleven years. It was a badge of honor of sorts. Point is, I didn't see any of that in evidence by this Irish team for Hungary's second goal. Basic basic stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
What the North have done over the past 10-12 years has not just been admirable, superb, yadda yadda, it's a template - maximising of resources, taking short-term pain where it's needed and capitalising where they can. Not all the time, but enough of the time to be admired.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Do Parrott and Ferguson work as a partnership? Just wondering if Ferguson, Parrott and Idah are all best as lone strikers (with wingers flanking). Of the three, Parrott has shown an ability to work in a 2, Parrott and Obafemi showed promise, but has felt a bit lukewarm combinations of the three listed strikers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
He's looked shocking, but he's undoubtedly a quality player which is something we are very short on. We simply have to find a way to get a tune out of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
And against a team as good as Portugal it might be good to have a central defender in that position. Given how deep we are likely to get the player in that position is likely to have to drop in beside the 2 central defenders at times anyway. It's an idea that worked for us and other teams in the past.
TOD asked HH on RTE if a sports psychologist was needed. Maybe, because I for one can't fathom how players who can play at a very high level week in week out can serve up such utter mush when playing for us. It used to be that lads who were mediocre at club level raised their game playing for Ireland. It's the other way around now. It's not just lack of technique or ability.
Armenia actually started showboating against us. No fear in them whatsoever.
I opened my hotmail account on my iPhone at lunchtime to find an email from the FAI:
The Boys in Green continue their 2026 World Cup qualifying campaign on Tuesday 14th October at the Aviva Stadium against Armenia and we are delighted to confirm that a limited number of single tickets are now available for this fixture.
Your presale is live tomorrow, 10th September, from 10am and it will end on Friday 12th September at 9am, subject to availability.
Gotta admire the FAI's optimism :)
We are going to have to kidnap Michael O'Neill without the Six County team noticing it !
Do we have a looky-likey that we could just slip in to fool those Nordies ? !
O'Neill, of course, is back with the north because he's a failed Championship manager. There are probably a dozen others like him who could be brought in, but I suspect a large element of our support would turn our noses up at a Mick McCarthy/Tony Pulis type of appointment, even now.
He did it against England in Wembley and it worked really well until Scales got sent off. Then it all fell to pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
That was Hallgrimsson. And Collins was playing centre back and stepping out at times, he wasn't actually playing DM. And that probably contributed to Scales getting sent off and by extension us getting beaten 5-0 and the experiment being canned ever since.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Ive always said this McCarthy fecking setting up a row in front of the whole team with Keane and the mismanagement of going to Saipan to start with cost us a place in a semi final against Korea, possibly a final.
It is a psychological thing. My take on our players' attitudes is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
"ah sure we're not going to win the World Cup anyway but let's give it a shot at qualifying and if we don't make it it's not the end of the world ." The glory is in qualification and anything else is a bonus. With a few exceptions, their minds appear to be on not getting injured every time they pull on the green shirt.
The honorable thing to do for those lads involved yesterday would be to step away from international game. How can any of them hold themselves up as credible in front of the Irish people after yesterday?
I can put that one to bed for you - it would have been a quarter final against Korea, and we'd have lost it. South Korea were getting everything that year and there was no way Ireland was going to be allowed to spoil the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Sorry. Yes... I read Fixers post incorrectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
The truth is, this result has been coming for a long time.
We had the poor Luxembourg result only a few years ago, Cyprus a bit longer ago and Macedonia a good while ago and some other poor ones along the way but we've been getting away with getting results from really poor teams for a long time.
Against Georgia we've had a dodgy penalty go our way, McGeady getting us out of jail, Gary Doherty getting a last minute jammy goal and Glenn Whelan scoring a jammy long ranger that the keeper made a mess of.
Against Armenia we've had Keith Fahey getting us out of jail late on, Robbie Brady with a last minute penalty at home to get 3 points.
Against Kazakhstan, Kevin Doyle scoring very late on to rescue 3 points.
Stephen Ireland scoring last minute to rescue a win against San Marino.
We're firmly in the zone of revisionism, but everyone seems to revise the result against Spain, without considering the two groups games we drew. Staunton doesn't play, we beat Cameroon - in my opinion that is clear as day. Staunton over Cunningham was a bad move. And yes I'm biased by his managerial efforts subsequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Then we move into a different progression path. But this is crazy 23 years on
It really has. But I genuinely thought we'd hit the floor and were starting to climb again with the two wins against Finland and Bulgaria. Last night - and equally the first half against Hungary and, feck it, the friendly against Luxembourg - make me fear for how much further we have to fall yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
In the 7 years since Mark Hughes was sacked, Stoke have had 8 permanent managers, incl MO'N, plus 6 caretaker managers. Many of those managers are/were successful before and/or after their time at Stoke. Yet during that time, the club has finished 16th, 15th, 14th, 14th 16th, 17th and 18th, despite being bankrolled by the UK's richest woman (and family).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
When Michael took over, their fans were resigned to getting relegated to Lge One, yet he managed to turn them round and escape the drop. Thereafter, he failed to take them to the next level, but considering the mediocrity associated with the club, there can be no real shame in that, for neither did anyone else.
Meanwhile, he was successful when managing in Scotland and at Shamrock Rovers, and has been outstanding in the NI job, where he will take up his 100th match in charge of the team next month.
Were I an ROI fan right now, I'd be delighted to have a "failure" like that take over.
Absolutely. None of that makes him anything other than a failed Championship manager though. His Scottish "success" was with Brechin City and he managed one Championship team and they sacked him because he took them nowhere. He's a very good fit in terms of the north though, and likely would also be if he happened to manage the Ireland team, which I doubt he ever will. That said, the north just like ourselves haven't made a finals since Euro 2016 and most likely won't be at the next World Cup either.
HH has 98 games as an international manager with a 40.8% win rate. O'Neill has 98 games as manager for NI and a 36.7% win rate.
There's highlights of that game here. I was there so this is the first time i've watched them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Collins was playing DM with Scales and Mark McGuinness at centre back. But it was a similar game to what I would expect to encounter in Lisbon as we were basically trying to hold out at the back and hoping for something from a set piece or a moment of divine intervention.
The Scales sending off had nothing to do with Collins. We were opened up at the start of the second half by a cracking ball from Harry Kane to Jude Bellingham which left Scales completely exposed and he gave away the penalty. But the reason he got sent off was because he had got involved in a ridiculous shoving match with Kane in the first half and the penalty was a second booking.
We had to come out after we went a goal down, and having to do that while a man short left holes all over the shop and they gave us a hockeying in the second half.
But we played very well in the first half of that game and Collins was doing a decent job considering he was up against Jude Bellingham.
It's absolutely worth giving it another go against Portugal imho.
Agreed. Worth pointing out that McGuinness had a very good game until it all fell apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Did he fail Stoke, or did they fail him? You know, just like they've failed every other manager since Pulis or Thordarson?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Fact is, when MO'N took over in Nov.2019, they had picked up 8 points in 15 games (= 0.53 points per game) and were seemingly doomed in (I think) 2nd bottom position. Yet he gained 48 points from the remaining 31 games (=1.55 ppg) to finish comfortably enough in 15th. Which repeated over a full season would have been good enough to have made the play-offs.
The following season was disappointing no doubt, but in looking to revamp the whole set-up, not just build a First XI in a dash for promotion, he needed time for his methods to become embedded (plus it was a Covid season). Then when the following season didn't get off to a flyer, the owners panicked and sacked him (to appease the fans, essentially).
Nonetheless, his win rate of 38.46% over 143 league games was better than every one of the other 12 managers before or since.
What, you only "doubt" it? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
We have a good template on how to play Portugal away. ;-) With a stronger squad at our disposal now. But would imagine HH will do something similar to England away - need to close shop, stop the leaky defence, and put points on the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Hmmm. The first third of those he was actually Assistant to Lars Lagerback, who did a fabulous job in charge, meaning HH took over the main job on the crest of (Lagerback's) wave. However when it came to it, though HH's win rate was high, he couldn't repeat LL's success of Euro2016 at WC2018, and resigned after the tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Similarly his subsequent win rate for Jamaica looks on the face of it to be impressive, but I can't help wondering about the standard of opposition they tended to face, what with the Reggae Boyz being a bit of a powerhouse in the CONCACAF region. Either way, they flopped when he got them to the 2024 Copa America and he resigned again afterwards.
By contrast, on both occasions when Michael took over the NI job, not only was the team required to compete in by far the toughest Confederation, but the team was at a very low ebb indeed. Therefore it needed a complete rebuild which clearly required time, during which early results were inevitably poor. But as time has gone on (both spells), there have been clear and consistent signs of improvement when, rather than requiring his resignation, the IFA has been desperate to retain him.
None of which to say that HH is a bad, or "failed", manager when contrasted eg with Michael - far from it. But however you rate him, it seems increasingly likely that he's not suited to the ROI job and/or the task at this present time is too big for him, even were he to be otherwise suitable.
Either way, we won't be swapping him for Michael, that's for sure! :cool:
Yes, he failed and they sacked him. This isn't difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
And yes, not knowing the man at all I'm not going to speak on his behalf (nor should you), but as I said I doubt he will ever manage Ireland, as indeed is the case for most of the human population.
You're welcome to him, EG. I wouldn't want O'Neill near us, no offence like. Different levels of expectations. HH's record stands up against O'Neill's and its not good enough. 4-0 Finland, 5-1 Sweden are results that wouldn't really fly with us, but acceptable as a work-in-progress for ye.
I bow to your superior knowledge of Iceland's national football team. I know who Lagerbäck's recommendation was to take over Sweden (before JDT was appointed). And hint - it wasn't Michael O'Neill.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I'm just going to say, that mentally (or perhaps from a self-mental-help perspective), in light of an absolutely disasterous opening weekend to the WC qualifiers, it is an absolute mind-**** for me to find myself nodding and agreeing in the main with EalingGreen & Eirambler across multiple posts and threads.
This could finish me off completely.
I think one of the most concerning aspects of the past few days has been the complete positivity around the camp, the bullishness to the point of certainty and how that completely did not materialise.
Aye, just like eg Alex Ferguson came within a Mark Robins FA Cup goal of being sacked by Man Utd after three years of "failure" at Old Trafford.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Anyhow, the failure at Stoke was down to the owners, not the managers (plural) that they continually appoint, then sack. If that's not to difficult to understand.
Having had the honour of meeting and speaking to the man on a couple of occasions, I feel I can say with confidence that wherever else Michael ends up, it won't be in the ROI job - he had a hard enough time working for one bunch of cowboys at the Britannia, to swap for a different set of cowboys at the FAI's Ranch! í ¾í´Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Lads the general discussion today has gone from changing the manager to the trials and tribulations of Stoke City back to changing the manager. How about we forget about changing the person in charge of this bunch of misfits who have gotten every manager fired for the last several years, and focus on what is needed for the future?Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
The manager is the issue Mark, that’s the way it works. He picks the team. He could have picked a totally different starting 11, and that selection of players would be better than that what’s available to Armenia. Jeez he could have even selected a team all from Cork, and that selection would be better than what’s available to Armenia.
Thing is Michael O'Neill does seem to have a talent for international management, all-be-it, the six county team was very patient with him. And nobody has done a whole lot with Stoke since the Tony Pulis days !Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I mean, it is debatable if Michael O'Neill would ever have been interested in managing the the 26 County team, but was he ever asked ? !
So we are back on the new manager carrousel again? Im not saying we shouldnt be, but its soul destroying to even think of it!
If we are hunting, for me Robbie Keane is the only choice
Ban him!Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman