France V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 7th September 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calcio Jack

Well I can’t stand him …. Like Kenny a spoofer of limited talent over the years , who never was up to much even at his peak, and more often than not was a liability as gave away the ball continuously, couldn’t cross the ball and collected yellow cards - his only talent seems to be his almost obsessive pride in playing for us which may somewhat admirable but adds nothing to the team - it’s an insult to the shirt that he’s managed to accumulate so many caps…. Hopefully soon he and Kenny will be gone

---

utter nonsense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crosby87

We need a fiery meet up like we used to have at Crackbird to sort things out.

It was like a 1930s German beer hall.

We will start with 50 manager names and whittle it down to 5 before sun up.

---

Crosby, you might want to sit down
I have some bad news about Crackbird.

Tonight went about as well as it could: our goal difference isn't hurt too much, and Greece got spanked. I wish we could scrap with France, but we can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fixer82

Thought McClean was excellent tonight. One of our best performers in a match where we were seriously out of our depth.
Him and Ogbene did really well

---

Yeah I don’t get the McClean hate at all on this one was a significant improvement on our left flank and put in at least 3 good balls (at least two of which lead to headers on target, Ogbene and Duffy).

For all that having a 4th tier in England player called up is embarrassing and hard to take (although I feel James might be the first but won’t be the last)there isn’t too much to fault him on from last night.

Ogbene's continued development in an Irish jersey, with 2 MoM performances against France, is the only major plus from these games. He could have passed earlier a couple of times, but he was still the danger man.

Bazunu looked jittery. Hopefully a blip, but I get the sense that his confidence has been dented by his experience at Southampton.
Stevens was out of it. Debutant didn't shine. Knight industrious. Collins good. Duffy's return a good thing. The rest a bit meh, neither good nor awful.

Defnitely, absolutely, categorically, Kenny's last chance saloon on Sunday. (And even if we win, I think he's done his best and had long enough.)

Why would Kenny be fired if we lose against the Dutch?

I'd expect the same again - another defensive performance where superior opposition eventually get a goal and we don't have the quality to get back into it.

A loss to the Dutch (unless it's 7-0 or something) wouldn't be even close to our worst result under him.

The mildly viral social media images of an Irish fan taunting French fans with an Argentina Messi shirt is some sad stuff.

That's generally my sentiment too. I think the goalposts for this campaign were decisively moved in the minds of too many people in charge after the draw was made. Third is the real aim now, even if the usual types in the media are already talking about the team potentially beating the Dutch. As long as Kenny is in a position to get third he'll be safe. Which I don't agree with at all of course, but this is how the FAI seems to want to play it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by osarusan

Why would Kenny be fired if we lose against the Dutch?

---

The way we still talk about that home victory over the Dutch when McAteer scored shows how rare these moments are for Irish teams.. and much better, more experienced teams than out current one at that. So I tend to agree.

But nothing about Kenny's tenure is rational any more.

So, I'm thinking a loss to the Dutch, despite that being predictable at any stage in Irish soccer history will be the final nail for Kenny. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part coz it's really time for someone else to come in and I'd like the new manager to get a few games to experiment with in a group that we're already out of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by texidub

I'd like the new manager to get a few games to experiment with in a group that we're already out of.

---

That part I'd agree with. Let a new manager have a few games to experiment with, but after the two games against France.

I don't see Kenny leaving before the end of the campaign though.

Btw on a side note
If you are looking for a big screen venue we watched the game in " the Camden"
It's not a classy joint, but does exactly what it says on the tin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by osarusan

That part I'd agree with. Let a new manager have a few games to experiment with, but after the two games against France.

I don't see Kenny leaving before the end of the campaign though.

---

If Israel beat Romania tomorrow, as I understand it we have a real chance of a playoff and we obviously need a new guy to have some time before those playoffs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by osarusan

That part I'd agree with. Let a new manager have a few games to experiment with, but after the two games against France.

I don't see Kenny leaving before the end of the campaign though.

---

Nations League doesn't start until next September though. We won't be in the Euros playoff in March (or it's increasingly likely anyway as other results aren't working out) and we won't be at the Euros in the summer of course.

So looks like March window - two friendlies. June window - probably two friendlies against sides warming up for the Euros. That all ties in with Kenny quietly moving on after the New Zealand game in November.

I still maintain McCarthy should have been allowed see out his campaign. It's been all over the place since Kenny took over

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Nations League doesn't start until next September though. We won't be in the Euros playoff in March (or it's increasingly likely anyway as other results aren't working out) and we won't be at the Euros in the summer of course.

So looks like March window - two friendlies. June window - probably two friendlies against sides warming up for the Euros. That all ties in with Kenny quietly moving on after the New Zealand game in November.

---

Yeah, even though more time for a new manager is better, there's enough time for a new manager to experiment without cutting Kenny's time short.

It's not looking good for the play offs

Yep
If Israel lose tomorrow its curtains

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by osarusan

Why would Kenny be fired if we lose against the Dutch?

I'd expect the same again - another defensive performance where superior opposition eventually get a goal and we don't have the quality to get back into it.

A loss to the Dutch (unless it's 7-0 or something) wouldn't be even close to our worst result under him.

---

All the talk after the Greece game was that he had a break clause in his contract that meant we could get rid once qualification was gone. I really hope this is the case.

I wonder sometimes what we expect. The squad despite their best efforts are weak. Compare them to the team that beat Holland years ago. The idea that a change of manager will somehow bring about a transformation is delusional. We are not great and will not be for the next while.
The real change has to come at home and (again a subject battered to death) a realistic academy program put in place by the FAI (LOI clubs cannot afford it) in order to maximise the talent in the country. This has been done by English clubs in the past.
This is a project that has to be addressd if we are to progress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stav

I wonder sometimes what we expect. The squad despite their best efforts are weak. Compare them to the team that beat Holland years ago. The idea that a change of manager will somehow bring about a transformation is delusional. We are not great and will not be for the next while.
The real change has to come at home and (again a subject battered to death) a realistic academy program put in place by the FAI (LOI clubs cannot afford it) in order to maximise the talent in the country. This has been done by English clubs in the past.
This is a project that has to be addressd if we are to progress.

---

Agree about the change of manager not being a magic fix. That said it is long past time Kenny should have departed. And then what? Do we keep fighting with our fingernails as a nation or do we study how other successful small nations do it and emulate?

If you look at the first goal, Stevens, Browne, and Collins are standing in a straight line in front of Tchouameni, he has a clear line of sight to the far post. Duffy is standing on the other side of this "corridor", which further helps him because he knows he can't hit it too far to the right, otherwise Duffy clears it.
It's the only shot he has, and he takes it.

Also, on the recent rugby talk, the way Mbappe lays it off is a textbook set up for a drop at goal

I'm glad we avoided a hiding. France were an absolute joy to watch, just so accomplished. I thought we did alright in parts. Knight's footwork on occasion was top class and some of our moves (one or two breakaways and at least one move built straight from a short goal kick) were quite accomplished. I liked Duffy being back. I'm not sure Ferguson's loss was that impactful but missing our best full backs was a big factor imho. We looked vulnerable on both sides, especially the left in the first half, throughout the game.

They clearly identified shots from distance as a tactic. Ken Early described it as like a rugby team setting up a deep lying out half for a drop kick. But like Latvia's first vs Kelleher, last night's first goal was unstoppable from a GK perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stav

I wonder sometimes what we expect. The squad despite their best efforts are weak. The idea that a change of manager will somehow bring about a transformation is delusional.

---

You're right that there's huge problems with the squad and the development structures in general, and I don't think Pep would have done a huge amount better last night.

For me (and others I'm sure) the bigger is still games like Greece away, where we were well shown up. That's where we can hope for improvement (while still noting Greece have some good players of course)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

It's not looking good for the play offs

---

Just on the playoff chances( which is our only chance)

The lads in ybig said that Albania v Poland is "a massive game for us"

Can anyone shed any light on that?

This post is probably helpful. Poland had a surprise defeat in Moldova and are behind Albania in the standings. Albania are behind us in the playoff chase so we don't want them qualifying automatically. We need three teams ranked below us and currently in the top two of their groups to drop out of the top two, and Albania would be one of the better chances.

You can see current playoff standings here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

This post is probably helpful. Poland had a surprise defeat in Moldova and are behind Albania in the standings. Albania are behind us in the playoff chase so we don't want them qualifying automatically. We need three teams ranked below us and currently in the top two of their groups to drop out of the top two, and Albania would be one of the better chances.

You can see current playoff standings here.

---

Thanks a mill

Just in terms of injury news for Sunday -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stephen Kenny

“Enda looks like a calf injury and Will an adductor so we'll have to see," said Kenny. “It wouldn't be looking good for either of them in short proximity of course. At this stage, we’d have to say it’s extremely unlikely they will be involved. We've got to consider that and see what we add to the squad, who we add ahead of Sunday, which is a massive game for us.”

---

Hogan or Armstrong maybe next in line up front? I'm assuming Parrott isn't match fit yet. Not sure who'd be next left-back in line but we can probably get by with McClean and Manning anyway?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crosby87

Its not James fault. I love the guy, but I love Diana Ross too, and she would also be too slow at this point.

---

Well, you can't hurry love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You're right that there's huge problems with the squad and the development structures in general, and I don't think Pep would have done a huge amount better last night.

---

Pep can only win with a blank checkbook

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Just in terms of injury news for Sunday -



Hogan or Armstrong maybe next in line up front? I'm assuming Parrott isn't match fit yet.

---

Yep. Obviously if Armstrong plays tonight, it kinda rules him out. Good luck calling Jim Crawford today and taking Armstrong when Carty is already out and Cannon isn’t answering calls.

Options below that are Afolabi and Georgie Kelly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

This post is probably helpful. Poland had a surprise defeat in Moldova and are behind Albania in the standings. Albania are behind us in the playoff chase so we don't want them qualifying automatically. We need three teams ranked below us and currently in the top two of their groups to drop out of the top two, and Albania would be one of the better chances.

You can see current playoff standings here.

---

I assume we need the teams ranked lower than us to be replaced by teams ranked higher than us?

Which basically means we need 3 of Bosnia, Israel, Poland and Croatia to get into the top 2 spots in their groups so we would scrape into the playoffs?

Yep - because for example Poland will get a playoff spot ahead of us, but we'll get in ahead of Albania

Specifically we need to reduce the number of teams qualifying but ranked below us to 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Yep. Obviously if Armstrong plays tonight, it kinda rules him out. Good luck calling Jim Crawford today and taking Armstrong when Carty is already out and Cannon isn’t answering calls.

Options below that are Afolabi and Georgie Kelly

---

Kelly's injured at the moment I think.

Maybe Mandriou instead? Lincoln's game at the weekend is already postponed, and he's scored a few this year

The U-21s are playing San Marino, aren't they?

Not sure that Sinclair Armstrong is absolutely essential to their securing victory.

It seems that only Ireland fans view the promotion of a young player into the senior ranks as something negative and to be avoided. It's not something I've ever come across amongst fans elsewhere at club or international football.

Sinclair's a first team player in the Championship and is being lauded for his performances. What's to be gained by holding him back?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Yep. Obviously if Armstrong plays tonight, it kinda rules him out. Good luck calling Jim Crawford today and taking Armstrong when Carty is already out and Cannon isn’t answering calls.

Options below that are Afolabi and Georgie Kelly

---

The senior team come first so sorry Jim if kenny wants him he gets him

He might be better off calling up Scott Hogan. I know he hasn't done well but he's not a bad player

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

If you look at the first goal, Stevens, Browne, and Collins are standing in a straight line in front of Tchouameni, he has a clear line of sight to the far post. Duffy is standing on the other side of this "corridor", which further helps him because he knows he can't hit it too far to the right, otherwise Duffy clears it.
It's the only shot he has, and he takes it.

Also, on the recent rugby talk, the way Mbappe lays it off is a textbook set up for a drop at goal

---

None of the Irish Players were near enough to the Shooter for the French Goal ~ You can't give players of that quality ( or maybe even lesser quality ) that much time and space because you will concede goals to those kind of shots ( as we have being doing ).

I don't think Kenny has worked this out ~ That some of his defenders are defending too deep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brine3

Well, you can't hurry love.

---

Don’t. You’ll start a chain reaction.

Stop Stu, in the name of love!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Kelly's injured at the moment I think.

Maybe Mandriou instead? Lincoln's game at the weekend is already postponed, and he's scored a few this year

---

Afolabi being touted as a possible by some one of the usual suspect socials pages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seanfhear

None of the Irish Players were near enough to the Shooter for the French Goal ~ You can't give players of that quality ( or maybe even lesser quality ) that much time and space because you will concede goals to those kind of shots ( as we have being doing ).

I don't think Kenny has worked this out ~ That some of his defenders are defending too deep.

---

Yep, and even when the Irish player closest to him (Stevens I think) realised he was lining up to shoot it, all that was done was a kind of meek "blocking from a distance", like shepherding sheep or something. The defending deep dance. At least sprint at him full steam. You might get there in time, and even if you don't, you'll at least put mental pressure on him.

Better yet, make sure he isn't left unmarked in the first place. Stevens could have moved ahead and somebody else could have moved on to help with the double marking of Mbappe. We were defending too deep and there were about three or four in the Irish box marking the five meter line with no Frenchman around them. When the ball was struck there were eight Irish players in the box and five French. Seven Irish if you don't include Bazunu. Was our plan to double mark the entire French team? Because then you'd need 22 players on the pitch.