he hasn't even started his first full qualification campaign yetQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
he hasn't even started his first full qualification campaign yetQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Ah, the old "people only remember the score" argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
I'll tell you what though, people remember more than that. I remember John Sheridan hitting the crossbar, and that didn't get recorded on the match report. That was a brilliant pass and move play involving Townsend, Keane and Sheridan.
Some class players in that team. Kenny would kiil for them.
I don't know what else we would be other than hurlers on the ditch, or are you managing some international football team whilst moonlighting as a ROI fan on internet chat forums? You've definitely a far more organised mind than me then. But for the rest of us on here that aren't at that level, we'll still give our opinions whether or not you agree with them:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottle of Tonic
I amn't one passing or hoofball only either, I am for whatever works based off the players we have available, and using the best skills of those available, but at the sametime getting the most out of what we have as a core unit. THere is no doubt we have more possession over the last few games, and no doubt we have looked to pass the ball more, so what? People seem to be comparing this Georgia away game(s) that we drew as some stick to measure how far we've come, well for hte last two away games against Georgia we had 6 and 3 shots on target V 4 tonight. No one is disputing that we didn't play well in those games though. But everyone is acting like things are so much better now because our possession , and passing, is so much greater/better.
You can call criticism or differing opinions or those who offer them whatever you like, the reality is we have always been relatively solid defensively - i do think our shape is very good at the moment out of possession especially on counter attacks - but offensively we are very poor and over these 3 games that didnt and doesnt look like changing.
I'd say everyone remembers that one, and it was definitely in any highlights reel and any report. I'm sure it would have been remembered universally had we drawn or lost the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Give Kenny a chance.. judge him after the WC qualifying campaign..
I think even those registering mostly negative comments here aren't calling for his head. Well, except one guy, who mentioned Nicosia! Kenny's not about to be sacked. Maybe if he loses badly to Bulgaria, he'll be under real pressure, but not yet otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
Seems to be a lot of lads that revel in misery on here and are delighted to see Kenny not getting the results. We've be sh1te for years now, I dont understand if they want this to continue with the crap football or should we actually try something different and see if we can progress in the long run.
Jurgen Klopp finished 8th in his 1st season at Liverpool. Im sure there were plenty of idiots saying it wasnt working or calling for his head while he was trying to change the way Liverpool played after they had been unsuccessful for so long. He was working with the players every single day and it still took him a couple of seasons to get it right. Kenny has had 5 effin games while also dealing with a COVID crisis. Some one saying its as bad as the Staunton era where we lost 5-2 in Cyprus is just ridiculous.
We had years of managers telling our players that they are not capable of passing the football and to basically hoof it out from the back every time. Do ye not think it might take more than 2 months to get it right when Kenny is trying to get rid of that mentality. We are still tight at the back for the most part which is what previous managers set up to do. We are probably creating more chances than we have done in years. The fact that we are struggling to put the ball in the net will change. Its been a mix of bad decisions, bad luck, lack of confidence and a couple of ridiculously bad missed sitters. We could very well have scored 2 or 3 in every game so far.
A little bit of perspective of where we have been and what we are trying to accomplish would be brilliant.
Spot on. Another thing I'd like to nail is this idea that we're playing tiki taka football. Maybe in comparison to what we were doing before, but that was such a low bar. In reality all we are trying to do now is play football that way practically every other team in the world does, I.e actually looking to pass the ball. Radical I know. It's very early days to start labelling Stephen Kenny a complete flop. If we lose 5-2 to someone like Cyprus then you can start comparing him to Staunton. But sure if we lose a few more games maybe some people will get their wish. Big Sam to the rescue it is then!Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Just the Tonic!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottle of Tonic
I'm back having watched the highlights. There wasn't much in it. Connolly reckoned we should have won, which is maybe a bit strong, but it was a close match.
I'm typing this post while watching the full replay so it's changing my mind as I type. The first thing that strikes me is that the abuse Jeff Hendrick has been getting simply isn't merited. From what I can see a lot of what we do goes through him. Other pluses are O'Shea and Connolly. I suspect the calls for him to be dropped are more about getting the darling of the League Of Ireland into the team, rather than Hendrick having done very much wrong.
Talk of sacking Kenny at this stage is premature in the extreme. The games have been thick and fast, getting a squad of any description together has been a challenge with Covid, it's all had to be done with one eye on not weakening the u21s too much, and despite all that we've not been outplayed by anyone. He'll have a few weeks to regroup now and watch all 3 games back.
For now the U21s should be allowed the use of the likes of O'Shea, Molumby, Idah and Parrott to see off Iceland and Luxembourg (although in an ideal world the next round of games would be postponed, and the World Cup draw would happen with us as a second seed).
Kenny was probably honour bound to give the guys in the squad Mick left him a chance, but he's done that now. For me the next step is a to wield the axe. For a sapling to find space in the forest, it often needs a storm to blow down one of the other trees. Stephen Kenny needs to be that storm.
Even without any of the u21s, there are guys who can be replaced now without the squad looking much weaker.
Randolph, Kelleher, McDermott
Doherty, Coleman, Duffy, Egan, Long, Clark, Stephens, Manning
Arter, McCarthy, Cullen, Hourihane, Hendrick, Browne, Mulraney, O'Dowda, Byrne
Robinson, McGoldrick, Hogan, Collins, O'Brien, Maguire, Curtis
Those guys, with perhaps a sprinkling from the League of Ireland, would allow him to look at a few new options, while ditching passengers like Brady and Long who don't offer anything apart from a reputation.
It seems odd to be saying this given how the goal was scored tonight, but our back 5 are sound. Further up the pitch, bringing in someone like Jake Mulraney would perhaps encourage Irish players to go the the MLS of other leagues in Europe. Daryl Horgan has offered very little this week, and playing for Wycombe isn't a superior standard to Atlanta United in my opinion. Even if only for one game, it would be super to have a squad with players based half a dozen countries, instead of our traditional choice of 23 guys based in England, and one playing for Celtic.
If McClean is available I think he's still worth having, but as an option from the bench.
So no need to panic. Whether Kenny was the right choice or the wrong choice, he was the choice. This is a step up for him, and he’s going to make mistakes, but the thing that matter is if he learns from them.
If nothing else Chris Hughton isn’t available, and the FAI is skint anyway.
we have no excuses for not playing Shane LongQuote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Kenny got the team wrong again, unless he is using this games as friendlies.
after these games we have to try new guys, we need to beat Bulgaria and see how it goes
Cillian Sheridan has to be in the team, Idah is learning his trade, maguire as winger only.
I.want him to field Ryan Manning, Cillian Sheridan and Jon Gallagher
You'll need vodka with that if we continue as we have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Why do you overlook Eunan Kane?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bielsa´s irish
A very cultured player.
unfit but greg cunningham is coming backQuote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
No need to get salty, brine.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
People remember the scoreline first and foremost, but they also remember the performance, and that includes chances created.
Not how much the ball is passed around amongst the back four. And Saxa fact.
Read we might play England, dont think is a good move right now, can we play a minnow? Or a team from concacaf or asia?
If we play England and we lose by a big margin, thats goodbye Kenny.
I hope Kenny is not that naive, lets play bosnia or a minnow at home
I have 33 excuses for not playing Shane Long. Every one of them is a candle on his last birthday cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bielsa´s irish
doesnt matter the age!!! , kids are not ready yetQuote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Look, the Welsh did us a huge favour tonight.. them winning in Bulgaria makes things simple.. no matter what happens next round of games in Wales, if we beat Bulgaria at home, we remain in Group B.. that has to be the target for now.
Staying in Group B for 22, means that like finishing bottom in the last NL, we were almost assured of a play off place because practically all the A sides will either qualify directly, or end up in the A play off... so will a huge chunk of the B sides.. so even a 3rd place in Group B would almost assure us a play off place.
By then, we'll have played these 6 NL games.. maybe 3-4 friendlies.. and 8-10 WC qualifying games.. so even if we dont get to the next WC.. we'll have 6 NL games.. and the Euro qualifiers to get to Germany in 2024.. that's loads of time to bed in new players, ease out older players.. and fine tune a playing style
MON got that opportunity and time with the 6.. give Kenny at least that too
Start learning German lads.. zwei Bier bitte, und Kurrywurst.. the craic will be 88 again
I hope we dont end up playing England away next time. better off to Bosnia or a minnow at home
I like the balanced posts. It's a new manager trying a new approach through formation, playing style and personnel. We have drawn 4 and lost 1(edit: drawn 3 and lost 2) and scored only a goal. That is not great. But we have outplayed most of the teams. That is great but there are still flaws to the performances and goals are obviously integral.
I am finding that social media and cousins thereof like this forum are mirroring Irish society and becoming quite extreme with contrasting views, like the States and the UK. Vote for Sinn Fein or Fine Gael. Open up or lock down. Hendrick is crap or Hendrick is great. Kenny is on a hiding to nothing or Kenny is the saviour.
There are a lot of balanced posts here with people accepting it isn't perfect but at least it gives hope for something better. The truth sits in the middle.
So I'm disappointed that he started Maguire and Horgan. They're not up to it and won't deliver goals. On the other hand, he put O'Shea in centre half when Long was apparently fit. I can't think of another manager we have had in a while that would have given a young centre half his first cap away to a decent side like Finland in a competitive match.
We've drawn 3 and lost 2. Finland beat us twice
I thought we were the better team - just didn't take our chances and make poor decisions in vital moments. O'Shea was excellent - looked like he has been in the team for years, and Stevens looks to have become a steady solution at a position that has been a problem area for us for years. Molumby and Connolly should be good senior players for years to come - helping to address the ageing profile of the team. Their RB was really struggling and that's something we could have exploited more but other than putting the ball in the net for us and possible selection choices, not sure what more Kenny could have done to win the game. Maybe we should play Duffy as striker and keep sending it long into the box to appease the TV commentators?
Cognitive dissonance.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
There was one stage where Pukki was coming through in the second half, very close to the 6 yards box and O'Shea ran across him beautifully and put a toe to the ball. It was very easy in that case to foul him but he stood him up, anticipated well and the chance was over for Pukki.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
O'Shea is very confident on the ball. You could tell Molumby and he had played together for the under 21 side. They were constantly looking to create angles to break the lines in their passing out from the back. Molumby would pull left or right of a Finn or two to take them out of the game and O'Shea was comfortable enough off either foot to give it to him. On the other hand, Hourihane was rarely and outlet for the defence and went missing a lot. He's disappointed me so much.
One thing I will say is that I thought Finland created more chances against us than any of the other teams did. I don't know if that's a worry in terms of teams adapting to our new style of play - or maybe it was just a factor of them having a home crowd behind them.
But covid aside, there was a lot of new players involved over the past couple of games, which was essential of course as the team was getting quite old again. Connolly, Idah, Knight, O'Shea and Molumby are all 21 or younger. You simply can't put out half the 21s and expect them to step up immediately.
As mentioned elsewhere previously, there is no compelling justification to have Hourihane and Brady on the field at the same time. Brady seems to have seniority over Hourihane for set plays so Hourihane should have given way when Brady came on. Hourihane wasn't directly bad - just decidedly average, but reason enough to give Cullen a go in his position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Agree with the O'Shea comments. Positively surprised with how comfortable he was on the ball and the speed at which he was moving the ball.
Agree there is no reason at all to have both on the field, but Hourihane offers more in all departments. Injuries have taken their toll on Brady. He isn't the same player he was, and whoever told him he is good at free kicks has a lot to answer for.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
What to say? We can't buy a break. I thought that was our best showing yet. I was watching that game and thinking it was shaping up as a game where we'd score, I just couldn't see it any other way at one point. We were brave on the ball for the most part and our play between the thirds was quite accomplished. Wales' goal last night was both lovely and, more importantly, an example of what can happen when you trust yourselves to build from the back. Did anyone see it?
Of course we can’t deny that apart from the brainfart goal we did get opened up twice and could have been behind in more normal circumstances but then again I’ve rarely seen a game of football where you don’t give up a chance or two away from home.
I can’t believe some in the media are saying O’Shea’s header was a mistake. I had some reservations about starting him over Long because I thought he had looked shaky for (a generally shaky) WBA so far this season but he looked a seasoned pro last night.
I actually think Horgan did OK in the first half. He’s far less predictable than others and showed nice touches. I also thought Hendrick had a good game yet he is getting hammered on social media and the Irish Times gave him 4/10 and called him “Mr. Anonymous”. Hendrick was very far forward at times and I think as an attacking unit we offered more last night than at any time in the first 5 SK games. Direct running by Connolly and less so Horgan contributed to that.
It does seem really clear that the team is playing very differently already and Kenny’s ideas are getting across. I personally think it’s a good thing. With a bit of luck we’d have had better results and the heat would be off. Of course we played quite good football under Eoin Hand and got nowhere, but I think we owe it to the exciting crop of kids coming through to stick with it and who knows, in 1-2 years’ time we could be in a very good place. Anyone who thinks otherwise should go back to the MON NL campaign and friendlies that were as grim a period in our history as I can remember.
ah yeah but how many remember Ronnie hitting the bar in Stuttgart or Quinn failing to score when an inswinging cross missed his head by a gnat's whisker? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Exactly this imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
i till remember quiinns miss on a 1v1 against Spains zubizarreta, as i remember thinking that was our goal to ensure qualification or at least thats what i thought at the time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
http://soccernostalgia.blogspot.com/...ireland-1.html think this was it but cant open at work
Hi everyone! I've just been authorised to post. I've read these forums for a long time, now I get to add my wisdom. :D You'll soon realise that I ain't got none.
Just a quick summary of my views. I really want Kenny to do well. There have been encouraging signs such as last night. I'm all for giving him time but also, the excuses need to be calmed a bit. This is not some big rebuilding job like after the Charlton era. He has a squad full of premier league players and the most exciting set of youngsters we've had in a long time. I really thought the fixtures were set up perfectly for him to make a barnstorming start. We've have had chances but we've given away chances too. It hasn't been a good start but there's time to turn things around.
I really think we need 2 up front. Sticking with 4-3-3 seems to be the way we will go but hopefully some flexibility can be shown. I have more details on my thinking but I got to go. Chat later foot.ie.
BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!
...yet a highlights reel of the second half would show we had our best chances then and gave up no chances other than the self-inflicted wound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly
Only Latvia, Andorra, San Marino and Ireland are yet to win a single Nations League match in their history.
Of the 55 UEFA nations, 53 have scored more goals than Ireland across the two iterations of the competition. Only San Marino, who are still waiting for their first-ever goal in this competition are beneath the Irish.
From Opta: Of the Republic of Ireland's last 20 matches, 16 have been goalless at half-time, including each of their last six. Indeed, Ireland themselves have scored just three first half goals over their last 24 internationals.
I agree with most of this. Apart from the Horgan bit. He offered nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I fear for Kenny that he will end up bringing a load of young players through to the u21s, become MNT manager before getting the credit for u21 success next summer, then bring a lot of the same players through to the senior side and end up out of the job because of results during the inevitable transition period over the next few years.
The advantage of trying to play a bit of football over the next while is that we have the traditional way in our footballing DNA. We showed towards the end last night that it can be turned back on again as required. If we try to play the way we've done recently against Germany or Spain we would be beat by 5 or 6, but our trouble over the last few years has been our inability to do both depending on the demands of the situation. Thinking back to the game against Gibraltar with Easyjet landing in the background, the way we played last night would have been a much better way to go about things against those lads, but it goes back years through games we have struggled in against micro-nations and tiny former soviet republics.
100% percent agree with this, versatility and adaptability are they key for me, we go out with a variable set of requirements depending on the opposition and the game itself. We showed yesterday that we can play more direct, down the channels like in the first half, and also mix it up with the old lob it in there boss towards the end of the second half. The only sad bit with that is we seemed to create our best chances with the old long range missiles as opposed to the other ways of playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
You see, I think if Kenny really does go for a more revolutionary approach and bring in the younger lads like Kelleher, Dunne, O'Shea, McGuinness, Collins, Manning (when he's back playing), Knight, Cullen, Byrne, Gallagher, Coventry, Smallbone, Harness, Ogbene, Obafemi, Parrott etc, a chance, then people will be more patient and inclined to give him the time to turn things around. And, yes, I appreciate the process has already begun with the introduction of Molumby, Connolly and Idah.
I understand he took over at a difficult time, coming towards the end of another manager's qualification campaign, and needed to give the older players a chance as well as lean on their experience for these crucial games. But it's time to put his own stamp on things now. Bringing back Williams, a bit-part player at a midtable Championship club, and Horgan, who proved himself not even up to Scottish Premiership standard, really doesn't help his cause.
For example, O'Shea looked very accomplished last night for a debutante. He's playing every week in the Premier League as he was in the Championship last season. Why wasn't he in the squad from the start? And Knight looks good enough already to me.
I think it's time to be bold.
Hi, first post.
I want Kenny to do well and I've been encouraged by some stuff that we have played in his first few games but I think the excuses being used will wear thin soon. He has inherited a squad with numerous premier league players and has some of the most exciting young players coming through than we've had in a long time. Also, McCarthy's recent reign was very disappointing but we were still very close to qualifying automatically, beating Denmark instead of drawing was all we needed and the performance against Denmark that night was better than anything so far under Kenny.
It's early days through and Kenny should be given a chance. I do feel that he needs to have more flexibility with his system.I know it's been said numerous times but we need to change our formation I think. 3-5-2. Kenny is a 433 man and I think he'll stick with it but 352 looks ready made. We have a number of options for the 3 centre backs. Duffy with Egan and Clark, maybe O'Shea who looked very good last night. Then Coleman on the right, Doherty has been a let down. Stevens left. Molumby has looked decent, can have him with McCarthy, Cullen or maybe Hendrick in the middle. McGoldrick just in front and then 2 up top. I think we need that, 1 alone is not working for us as we don't really have goalscoring midfielders. You could go with Connolly and Idah, Parrott maybe or Robinson/Long.
_______________Randolf_________________
_________Egan___Duffy___O'Shea__________
Coleman_________________________Stevens
_________McCarthy_______Molumby________
_______________McGoldrick_______________
_________Robinson________Connolly_______