Ah right, didn't realise Heaney was playing. How did he get on? He's been playing left full when he's featured for Rovers but plays centre half for the B/LSC team.
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Ah right, didn't realise Heaney was playing. How did he get on? He's been playing left full when he's featured for Rovers but plays centre half for the B/LSC team.
Report on the game.
http://www.fai.ie/international/unde...-tallaght.html
Beaten 2-0 at Dalymount. We're improving!
Scotland's u17s just won a semifinal place against Holland by following up a 1 nil win over Germany by beating Switzerland 3-1. England are to play Portugal in the second semi, despite losing 2 nil to the Dutch.
Impressive stuff from the Scots. I long for some similar success for our lads again.
The Scottish senior team is well accustomed to getting similar results against teams of that stature. Meanwhile we have become conditioned to accept draws against teams the stature of Slovakia and Sweden as huge successes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
This isn't an insurmountable problem in a group where Italy are the only strong team (that Bulgaria team is in a huge decline) or where Russia and Slovakia are the only traditionally strong teams, but we are now in a group where Germany - as evidenced - are a step above Italy and Russia in terms of an obstacle for us and Poland and Scotland are two teams with strong performance records in qualification campaigns.
Thank God for the two automatic qualification places and the possibility of a third.
There is a chance that Scotland could do us a favour and drop points against a smaller team/s and replicate their past performances against Spain, Italy and France and we could get perhaps benefit from that.
I've kind of progressed past the point where I expect us to take the initiative and grasp the nettle.
Since when?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
This the same Scotland who have never come out of their group at a major finals ?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
This isn't debating the merits of the two teams records in major tournaments, not that Ireland have anything to brag about.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
I'm merely saying that Scotland have had over half-a-dozen galvanising performances against teams the caliber of Spain, France, Italy, Croatia and Czech Republic and several wins to reflect that. You can count the number of good Ireland performances - against any team - in the same period of time in a thimble. Surely, I must not be the only person demoralised by how we utterly failed to match our performance in Paris in the subsequent competitive games?
We have plenty to brag about if we're comparing our record at finals to Scotland.....Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
And if those performances by Scotland were, indeed, "galvanising", why did they never follow them up by qualifying for anything since 1998 or even getting their act together to beat the weaker teams in their group?
Yes. Ireland perform better against smaller nations than Scotland. Scotland perform better against bigger nations than Ireland. I didn't say anything to dispute this. I suggested that this could work out in our favour, if as expected, we lose twice to Germany; as Scotland on past performances and results are more likely to take something from them - Poland too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
We're all guilty of licking our wounds -myself included - over Paris but Scotland have had their misfortune in not qualifying for a major tournament when they had decisions go against them when they played Italy in 2007.
There's no need to be so defensive when I bring up the fact that Scotland and Northern Ireland play better against big teams than we do. I don't like it any more than anyone else but it's indisputable fact backed up by over a dozen matches and results between them. Underperforming against the smaller nations doesn't make those accomplishments any less impressive.
Not being able to beat teams the calibre of Israel, Bulgaria and Slovakia has been a hindrance for us and the length of time it's been a problem is remarkable.
I agree and can't help feel that opposition to your view is framed by some previous strong positions you have taken. But if we had the same run of form that Scotland have in the last 12 months we would already have mentally taken qualification for granted. I'd much rather their form than ours and I think there is huge pressure on the new management to kick our asses into gear and quick.
It is 12 years since we put in a credible performance at a finals. Both Scotland and ourselves have wiped the slate clean since then.
And, btw, I'm not ridiculing our 2012 performance. We were up against 3 top ten teams. The Dutch did just as bad. Scotland would have done too, if not worse.
Are you pair on drugs, because, sorry, I'm confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
In WC2014 qualifying they were beaten twice by Belgium and Wales, with a loss and a draw against Serbia.
In Euro 2012 qualifying Spain beat them twice and they lost one and drew one with Czech Republic.
In WC2010 qualifying they lost to Holland twice, lost and drew with Norway and lost one to Macedonia
In Euro 2008 qualifying they did beat France twice but lost twice to Italy, once to Ukraine and once to Georgia........so.....is that it? We're supposed to be envious of Scotland beating France 7 and 8 years ago????
They beat Croatia twice a year after they soundly beat us. But overall, I don't see where they've become accustomed to big results against better teams. If anything, our solid record of draws up until recently is far more consistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
They have also beaten Ukraine, Norway and Slovenia in the years since we have achieved any kind of credible competitive result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Any way you want to put it, that is 7 more wins against decent teams than we have achieved since 2001. They have also beaten Iceland 4 times and Iceland are probably stronger than any team we have beaten in qualifying since 2001. Their performances against teams the caliber of Spain and Croatia are arguably more impressive than ours too. Contrast our performances in the "Group of Death" with Scotland's Euro 2012 Qualifying performances against Spain and WC 2014 Qualifying performances against Croatia.
We've achieved results equally as credible as those. Unless I've fallen into some parallel universe where Ukraine, Norway and Slovenia are European powerhouses. The Scots had one very good campaign and outside of that they've been rank. We've been fairly awful too but we've been a level above them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
I see you are at the bottom of the barrel already on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
We can't even beat "the bottom of the barrel". What does that say?Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Apart from Slovakia in the 2008 campaign, we haven't beaten a team on a par with any of those sides.
So you agree your creme de la creme powerhouses used to parade the Scottish revival are now in fact a bit *hit ? Within about three posts. Is that where we are ?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
What's your baseline here? Armenia were better in 2011 than Slovakia were. We drew twice with Slovakia and beat Armenia twice. Yet you seem to have decided that only the Slovakia results are worthy of being counted.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Look CD, his base line should be, if Robbie Keane, did, could have, or indeed might have scored against them, they aren't worth counting, surely ?
Hasn't that got to be the way ?
What on Earth are you babbling about now? I originally said Scotland are well accustomed similar results against teams of that stature i.e. Germany i.e. x2 wins v Croatia and x2 wins v France i.e. 4 times the amount of wins we have got against teams of that stature in over twice the amount of time Scotland got those results. Scotland have also fared better (ditto Northern Ireland) against this Spain team we were trumping to mythical proportions in Euro 2012. Are people honestly going to tell me that our performances in Euro 2012, Russia, Germany, Austria, Sweden, Slovakia and Bulgaria were anything other than a joke? We had a semi-coherent performance against Italy in Dublin and got outplayed by them in Bari even though they played virtually the entire match with 10 men. We had one good performance against France in Paris which was a complete and utter aberration.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Ukraine, Slovenia and Norway ("sh*t" though they are according to you) are traditionally stronger than any team we have beat bar Slovakia in 2008 campaign.
Armenia quickly went back to being sh*t in the 2014 Qualification campaign when Malta defeated them. We couldn't do the job ourselves. We had to rely on Armenia to do it over an equally sh*t Slovakia team. We got to Euro 2012 without a single win over our two direct rivals and lucked out with the Playoff draw. Anyone honestly believe we would have qualified if we didn't play Estonia? Maybe if we drew twice and won a penalty shoot out but that's the only scenario I could envision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
If we go through the next campaign without beating Germany, Scotland and Poland and relying on draws and other teams doing favours for us, then I think we are up sh*t creek without a paddle regardless of the changes in dictum for qualification.
Armenia beat Denmark and the Czechs away and drew in Italy so they were hardly crap, just inconsistent in a very tough group where they were disadvantaged by their seeding. They lost to Malta and it was a poor result but if they'd won as expected they'd have come second as fifth seeds. The fact is Armenia were the third best team in that group and we beat them twice and qualified for the tournament. You can talk down the Ireland team all you like but the fact is we got some good, consistent results against the best teams in our group and made the finals. I wouldn't trade places with Scotland, for all their pyrrhic victories in failing to qualify for anything.
After most of that post I've withdrawn my qualified support for your earlier argument!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
I see it in simple terms: they have got some results recently and not so recently that we'd be delighted to have got. They mixed this up with some results that we'd have been mortified by. During the same time we have got consistent results against the tricky middle and lower seeds but have mainly drawn blanks against the better teams, a notable win over a number one seed notably absent since 2001 and a really good away win since 1987.
I think we could have given a better account of ourselves against Bulgaria, Slovakia and others at home but we were restricted by Traps caution and lack of confidence in our ability. I don't think those performances mean we are rubbish. We secured second place each time anyway suggesting that the overall approach to the campaign was the right one.
There's no point belittling Bari or other performances for the sake of a petty argument. Playing Spain in a Euros is not the same as playing a shambolic Spain on a cold winter night in Windsor. And it'd be nice if Artur Boruc lets in a back pass against us too if that'd count as a win over a good team. We were out of our depth against Spain, pure and simple. Most teams are.
Just like to point out that the France team Scotland beat twice, the best part of a decade ago, subsequently finished bottom of their group at Euro 2008, with 1 point.
TOWK, you've outdone yourself for ridiculousness here. (I still don't understand your "galvanising" thing, btw).
I would say over on fitba.co.uk they would secretly love to have our consistency (along with James Mc and Aiden). I wouldn't swap our results for theirs in a million years.
Scotland have had a very good number of months and have had a number of really good victories. I dream of an Irish team one day beating a team like Croatia home and away. We on the hand have been poor in that period. Undoubtedly, they are more of an in-form team and a team for us to keep an eye on.
However, I wouldn't swap our results for their's over the past number of years. They may have had some morale-boosting away wins etc but we have consistently done the bread and butter in qualification racking up impressive results in Georgia, Cyprus, Armenia and Kazakhstan. We have been generally ****e against any decent team - personally I rate the Armenian's highly. We may have been arguably the worst team ever to qualify for the European Championships but we got there. In my lifetime, many a very good Irish team packed with great players failed to qualify for tournaments.
I'm sure the Welsh, Scottish and the North would have been more than happy to have qualified, even if it meant that they were roundly beaten in all 3 games, including a hammering from possibly the greatest international team of all time.
First of all, I don't care for the condescending and patronizing tone from one or two of ye i.e. "my posts are ridiculous" and "I must be on drugs". It's not that I particularly mind that but it's the double standards applied whenever I say anything mildly as bad as that. I could accuse others of making ridiculous statements like "Ukraine and Norway are sh*t teams"!
Second of all, I am aware of the fact that Scotland's record against smaller teams is significantly worse than ours just as I'm aware that our record against decent teams is significantly worse than theirs. I'm not sure why people keep bringing this up as I haven't said anything to contradict it. Of course, I also wouldn't swap qualifying for those two tournaments. Frankly, I would swap the way Ireland set out to play against big teams with Scotland.
People can dress up that group of death at the Euros all they want but Scotland beat that Croatia team twice and both Scotland and Northern Ireland gave Spain a much harder game than we did - and this wasn't over a decade ago.
I think people are also cherry picking when it comes to Scotland's performance in Qualifying groups. They made the Playoffs for 2004 and were within arms reach in 2008, 2010 and 2012.
I think if we fail to beat Germany and Poland over four games, Scotland's ability to get wins where we can't, could - the more I think about it - be a worry. Qualification is not a gimme but it's going to make for great TV.
They don't really have that ability though. Since the wins against France 7 years ago they've only beaten Croatia. They've lost or drawn (mainly lost) all their other games against the strong teams. On top of that, they've failed to be consistent against weaker teams. I'm not being patronising or condescending but there is simply no basis other than a couple of wins over Croatia to back up your argument. They lost twice to Belgium and Wales. Even a bad Ireland team in the throes of a break-up with Trap should've beaten Sweden in Stockholm and were 30 seconds away from beating Austria in the last campaign. And that team was still able to get the job done against the Kazahks and the Faroes.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Well it's the constantly shifting goalposts that gets me. Ireland beating Armenia twice doesn't count as a good result against a decent team because Armenia lost to Malta and are therefore ****, yet Scotland beat Norway and Slovenia five years ago and these are somehow great results. You say Scotland gave Spain a tougher game than we did, yet you've spent the entire thread talking about how they're able to get wins against the bigger teams, but now a moral victory - something we specialise in - is being held up as a virtue as long as it's Scotland and not Ireland who achieve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Squad named for the elite phase games against Iceland, Serbia and Turkey at the end of the month, including five home-based players.
Eric Grimes (Leeds United FC)Liam Bossin (RSC Anderlecht)Noe Baba (Fulham FC)Sean Long (Reading FC)Sean Heaney (Shamrock Rovers FC)Dylan Barnett (Brighton & Hove Albion FC)Kyle McFadden (Norwich City FC)Bobby Moseley (Birmingham City FC)Alan Browne (Preston North End FC)Steven McCarthy (Sunderland AFC)Ryan Goldsmith (Cobh Ramblers FC)Dylan Connolly (Shelbourne FC)Ryan Robinson (Shelbourne FC)Thomas Mulroney (St Patrick's Athletic FC)Liam Kelly (Reading FC)Alex O'Hanlon (Liverpool FC)Sam Byrne (Manchester United FC)Alan O'Sullivan (Aberdeen FC)
Dan Cleary dropped from the friendly squad against Mexico. Dimaio out after getting concussed yesterday.
No sign of Hallahan either, who I was impressed with on Tuesday
Aside from Sam Byrne, has anyone heard of any other players from that squad being released in the annual end-of-season clear-outs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Fantastic to see so many home-based players in there. And, of course, Alan Browne was with Cork City up until January before signing for PNE and making a seemingly good contribution to their path to the play-offs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94k5...ature=youtu.be
Interview with two of the lads ahead of the qualifiers. Refreshing to hear an eclectic range of accents.
McFadden seems to be an old head on young shoulders, in a few ways. He speaks very well and looks much older than 19.
I couldn't grow a beard like that 4 years ago and still can't now!
You need to hang out with Bonnie.
should be at the game tonight, work permitting.
weather is lovely in Dublin at the moment (he said, jinxing it for later)
They moved the early game to Bray to preserve the pitch for the Ireland game.
Assume no streams! Certainly no shortage of England U20 games on offer!
Ireland 1-0 up through Sam Byrne.
Makes a change from digging it up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge