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The boys on Newstalk also said Trap has suggested that if we beat Croatia, then Green will start against Spain. Had always felt the gameplan was to try and scrape a draw against Spain, but I really don't see how including Green, will do anything in furtherance of that objective.
Foley feels betrayed and rightly so. This can't help morale within the camp. We are good at creating drama before we play in major competitions.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...316915893.html
Reading that article, I know Foley is saying he should have been given more time to train and he was under the "illusion" that he had a place in the squad, but this decision doesn't really seem to have anything to do with his fitness, or him at all really, just what a different part of the squad needs in terms of depth.
That being said, I would be worried if the management team was possibly misleading a player into thinking he had a greater chance of going to Poland then he really did. The injury concerns of the defence are not a new development.
That's so disappointing to read. It's constant stuff like this that has me questioning Trap - the miscommunication is apparent every step of the way. We can joke about it when we like but this is where the joking comes back to haunt us. If Foley feels betrayed and/or lied to then I'm inclined to believe that he has good reason for feeling that way and it's just not good enough from Trap and the management team.
Well, it's easy to speak rashly (or be misquoted) so soon after being told such bad news. I'm sure more details will emerge at some point, when tempers have cooled.
Irish Times highlighting tensions and upset in the camp on the eve of a major tournament. That didn't end badly at all last time.
Quite so, anytime I've heard him speak or quoted he sounds dead on. His personality is not an issue and it's ridiculous to be profiling him based on wild assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Well in an interview with Eoin McDevitt he came across as particularly indignant when the infamous 7-1 defeat against Everton was raised, and the suggestion that he was culpable for the leaking the vast majority of the goals that day. Maybe its blind faith in his own capabilities, which is not necessarily a bad thing because I'm pretty sure if he paid heed to half the stuff written about him in the media, he would have packed the game in by now. I wouldn't call him arrogant, I'd say thick skinned is probably a better summation of his character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I feel very sorry for Kevin, and not just based on this, but for the guts of 5 years now he's not been given much of a break. He's not a kid either. (I'm biased - I do not like McShane, I don't think he's a good player, and think he's more of a liability than any of our other options in defence. Like POS, I blame him for Paris as much as that tinker Henry.)
We've Dunne, St Ledger, O'Dea and O'Shea as it is that can cover Centre Back. If any of them are gone, Kelly can give additional cover, and to be blunt I'd much prefer to move Kelly inside and play Foley at right back, than bring in McShane. And I hate making two changes where 1 will do. Versatility in a squad is a brilliant comodity, but to a point. If we've that many concerns about our front-line defenders, then bring in a proper centre-back, even Duffy, to train with the squad in case of a last-minute emergency.
Thankfully Foley has at least told Trap what he thinks rather than just running to the press. Nice to see.
I just hope we don't have to use McShane at all.
I think Foley has every reason to feel gutted and there is ambiguity over his injury, how he felt and how the medical team thought he was. This is what upsets me most.
But let's not get all hysterical.
As far as I see it he wasn't lied to. He was named in the original squad. Since that time injuries to centre-backs and centre-back cover require a squad member who can cover both full back and CB. Foley covers full back and CM. It's a pragmatic decision, albeit a hard one. I think Kingdom has rightly spelt out that it wasn't the only decision Trap could have made in this regard, but so be it.
Toashtie, I didn't see anything in that article saying there was disharmony in the team. A player has suffered a huge disappointment, another - his friend - has come in and everyone is sympathetic to the situation. Too often we're accused of just being there for the craic. Now when we make a tough decision at the business end we're accused of lies, creating unnecessary discord etc. Alternatively, you could say that the last time the manager made a tough call like this one, we made the WC Q/Fs.
I think it's good that Trap seems to be taking a hard line with O'Shea and even Given. No touchy feely favouritism there.
My fear is that McShane has leapt ahead of Kelly in the RB pecking order.
A bit more clarity from The Examiner
"We thought very hard about what was the best and most appropriate decision,” he said. “We based our decision on the fact that the centre-halves — Dunne, O’Shea, O’Dea — all have problems. We are not sure if they will be 100%. Paul McShane did a careful medical check and we decided to include him in the 23. The reason behind this if we need one more central defender, one more stopper. We also know they are more subject to bookings.
“I spoke to Kevin this morning and with regret I communicated my decision to him. Obviously, he was clearly upset. Also me. But I have a responsibility to our team and the Irish nation. It’s my duty to take this decision, disregarding personal feeling. It was very difficult because we hold him in a high regard."
St Ledger's and O'Dea's knocks / strains have come since the squad was announced - each only occurring in the last 7 days or less.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
I know I'm coming across all "Trapologist" as POS calls it, but I just think he's made a tough call and that's all really.
I'm pretty frustrated with the ambiguity of the situation - the idea Foley feels misled is more fuel to the communication breakdown fire. Ultimately it's gutting for someone who's an committed stalwart and someone who has never really had a proper crack. Plus a big strength of this group is consistency of personnel and harmony - it may not be particularly damaging or costly, but it's not helpful either.
Having said all that - it's clear this wasn't a fitness call, and even if Foley trained he was in danger of missing out due to other knocks.
I don't like McShane. I'd also apportion considerable responsibility for Paris on him. But he's there now, he's experienced and he has a good personality - a good traveller.
However, as has been mentioned, I think this decision casts considerable doubt over at least one of the defenders (most likely O'Shea). Trap's all about consistency and clearly didn't want to have to make that call - only a serious concern over centre back cover could've led him there imo. Moreover Trap appears very keen to have Foley stick around. That's possibly prudent - but just as likely they could be anticipating a pull-out. Watch this space.
If McShane has leapfrogged Kelly, I'll be furious. Surprised though too - Kelly is a firm Trap favourite, I still expect him to come in if O'Shea bites the dust.
have to agree 100% with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
hard as it is on Foley the decision has obviously been made for the right reasons. why do we always insist on looking for problems by bringing up disharmony in the camp, Foley allegedly being lied to etc? We have to fully trust Trap on this one.
kelly came on Saturday with his arm heavily strapped. Maybe he isnt 100% either after his arm break and the lack of game time over the last couple of months?Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
So basically, what we can sum up from this experience is, no matter what, like the leetle details, all the preparation you want to do, can't fix situations like those that happened foley. Can we take that all the preparation for our games(like italy in 2002 and 2004) will actually make any difference to how we fare out in Poland?
I really feel for Foley, the correct footballing decision was made, but the way Trap went about it was wholly wrong. HE said he didn't like naming 29 man squads and dwindling down because of morale and what not, had he done this, there wouldn't be any problem with Foley now. No matter how well you think you prepare, you can get it wrong, and very badly at that. I wonder will Il Trap go about things differently in the future?
Would foley really come back, after what has happened if someone pulls out? Its like the girlfriend or meeting friends, if she finds out that you wanted to meet the friends first, and she was second choice, its never a good thing :D
Foley is better than McShane or Green, but hardly to the extent it's going to change the result in any game...
Coleman & Clark have more right to be upset IMO. Even if they don't seem to fit into Trap's 'plan'.
Not quite squad related but worth a read if you have a few minutes to kill:
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/euro-8...61584-May2012/
Gives you goose bumps reading that. I was 6 at the time and struggle to remember that tournament. 2 years later I can remember everything. Look at that team photo.....some great players.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
jesus, im nearly in tears reading that. 24 years ago - i was 11 and i remember it so well. Thanks PI.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
Super stuff, except Fergus Mollen was mistaken. A win over Russia would not have seen us through. That old misperception again.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
given and o'shea return to training...
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...n-to-training/
George Caulkin of the London Times took this after training today. Good picture...
https://instagr.am/p/LSd8oNvFuD/media/?size=l
Not able to open it at work - what is it?
Looks like a massive red carpet was laid out for our boys while they trained.
no i think they just did a clean in job on Traps mattress in the background there after Foley left the horses head in it... :)
Oldest squad at the tournament.
Team Youngest player Oldest player Average age Germany M. Gotze (20) M. Klose (33) 24.52 Poland R. Wolski (19) M. Wasilewski (31) 25.13 England Ox-Chamberlain (18) R. Green (32) 26.04 Denmark J. Okore (19) D. Rommedahl (33) 26.57 France Y. M'Vila (21) A. Reveillere (32) 26.65 Spain J. Alba (23) Xavi (32) 26.78 Croatia D. Vida(23) J. Simunic (34) 27.09 Portugal N. Oliveira (20) R. Costa (31) 27.08 Netherlands J. Willems (18) M. van Bommel (35) 27.13 Greece K. Fortounis (19) K. Chalkias (38) 27.17 Czech Republic V. Darida (21) J. Drobny (32) 27.26 Ukraine M. Koval (19) O. Horyainov (36) 27.3 Italy M. Balotelli (21) M. De Sanctis (35) 27.91 Sweden M. Olsson (24) A. Svensson (35) 28.3 Russia A. Dzagoev (21) R. Sharonov (35) 28.34 Republic of Ireland J. McClean (23) S. Given (36) 28.35
At least we win something.
Our lack of young players is telling...
Which is why I'm so glad about McClean.
But we could do with a Trap clone in around 5 years time when many of our players really could be 'rubbish' and we'll be looking on the likes of even McShane, Green & Ward wistfully...
Why is it so telling?
The average age is 28. Our oldest player is a GK.
Most of our squad are at or near their peak, and at an ideal age for a major tournament.
We have young players in abundance close to making the next step up.
Yeah, an average age of 28 is hardly an old team.
Ardee doesnt make positive posts to the point of tedium. Mark you really need to get yer hole.
It would have to be some hole to cure that affliction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
There is more on here I could say that for. Actually a lot of the lads you meet away :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Junior
Its all McShane's fault. If he hadn't have been brought in we'd have an average of 27.99 and wouldn't have the crippling embarassment of being the eldest squad at the Euro's.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
As we already know, McShane is intrinsically linked with the Irish Banking collapse, the rise of Jedward and Ireland's loss to Cyprus 5-1, despite only making his debut 4 days later against Czech Republic.
thats the last straw, the household tax was bad enough, who does he think he is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie