Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

I honestly think Co Adriaanse would make a fantastic Ireland manager. He specialises in getting smaller teams to play above themselves, in a technical, attacking style. Was in charge of the youth system at Ajax for five years, then took a team called Willem II Tilburg all the way to the Champions League, took AZ Alkmaar to the UEFA Cup semi-finals and did the double with Porto.

I assume his English would be good. He's also a bit of an obsessive with an eye for detail. He wouldn't be forgetting players... He's on a break at the moment and we could afford his salary.

But would anyone at the FAI even know a manager like that exists... we'll probably end up with some celeb manager like Harry bleedin Redknapp.

Arsenal appointed a manager that would have been relatively unknown to most people in the UK & Ireland back in 1996. That worked out ok for them.

Came across this on Facebook via TheScore.ie:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...23770283_n.jpg

saw that too, was wondering if it could be redone for competitive games only

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Originally Posted by backtowalsall

He's got a good record. He won the Dutch and Turkish leagues, and did well with Marseille, and has experience of working in divisions where your midfields first job is to hold onto ball. He speaks English which has been a problem under Trap and he might take the job, having previously taken over the Moroccan national team.

I don't think it's like for like at all. The time has come for a change but we have been successful under Trap and we should resist the temptation the throw out the baby with the bath water by giving it to some 'give it a lash' merchant

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Quit with the stats and the records - thats how Trap got in - he is a very defensive minded manager, limited tactics, and wasnt he rubbish at a recent african nations (or did i imagine that?). Remember Wenger making a mug of him (tactically) when arsenal played Psv

I hope we don't end up with the typical names being trotted out. The English managers looking for a quick buck like Redknapp and Venables. The past players who had a decent season or two at a lower level English side (John Aldridge) and, of course, the continental journeymen that can point to mediocre records at international level (Phillip Troussier).

Howard Kendall put his name forward last time, and who was that German or Dutch chap that had his name bandied about via an interview on Off the Ball and who's record barely extended past bad Asian sides? I remember the tongue-in-cheek approach taken by Ken Early and Eoin McDevitt towards his candidacy.

I'd love to see a serious candidate take charge. Someone who actually cares about the furtherance of their career and their own future and the future of Irish football. Coyle, Hughton and McDermott are these types of managers. And Coyle is available.

The Ireland manager's job is not the poison chalice that some people are trying to make it out to be.

So, judging by DannyInvincibles chart there, we should be looking to bring back Brian Kerr?

Hard to believe Trap's played as many games as Mick at this point, he's a full campaign behind him.

Whoever is appointed as main man, I wouldnt mind seeing Kenny Cunningham having some serious input with the team, always seems level headed and would get along with the players

Cunningham is level headed and articulate far more than staunton and you need this articulation when speaking with players and figure out tactics. Basically you need a brain, any form of intelligence, which a lot of footballers lack, thats why mourinho, avb, ferguson all these types do so well, as much as having a football background with experience they have a brain.

I think Cunningham might be a bit too quite too as a manager and might not be great at handling individuals and motivating.

I can't figure out why Cunningham hasn't managed to find a job at some level yet. Surely with his badges he should at least be coaching a youth team or something.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I can't figure out why Cunningham hasn't managed to find a job at some level yet. Surely with his badges he should at least be coaching a youth team or something.

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I thought that was his plan. Looking for the right job? I remember there were rumours he was eyeing up work in the LOI initially.

Was he in the running for the U21 job post-Govens?

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Quit with the stats and the records - thats how Trap got in - he is a very defensive minded manager, limited tactics, and wasnt he rubbish at a recent african nations (or did i imagine that?). Remember Wenger making a mug of him (tactically) when arsenal played Psv

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And if Arsene Wenger is willing to take the job we should definitely appoint him. But The likelihood is that we will have to adjust our ambitions

I dont think Trap will be leaving lads in fairest ....... where are they going to get the money to get rid of him and in fairest we are not out of the qualifying race at all ..... ye getting to much liked the British media.

Tony O'Donoghue of RTE kinda made a boo boo when interviewing Trap saying that Germany hammer Swedan! ... he should get his FACTS right!

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Originally Posted by swinfordfc

I dont think Trap will be leaving lads in fairest ....... where are they going to get the money to get rid of him and in fairest we are not out of the qualifying race at all ..... ye getting to much liked the British media.

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The same place they got the money to hire him in the first place.

Noticed TOD's boo boo as well - the lads in the studio all seemed to think the game was over too.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

The same place they got the money to hire him in the first place.

Noticed TOD's boo boo as well - the lads in the studio all seemed to think the game was over too.

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From O'Brien ...... maybe .... time will tell i guess

Harry wants the job!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...eland-job.html

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Originally Posted by swinfordfc

I dont think Trap will be leaving lads in fairest ....... where are they going to get the money to get rid of him and in fairest we are not out of the qualifying race at all ..... ye getting to much liked the British media.

Tony O'Donoghue of RTE kinda made a boo boo when interviewing Trap saying that Germany hammer Swedan! ... he should get his FACTS right!

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sure RTE kept referring to "germany having beaten Sweden tonight" while the game was still going on. sloppy

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Originally Posted by Deckydee

Harry wants the job!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...eland-job.html

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i cant see this, id say harry is waiting for a job to come up in the PL before hed return to management. id say anything linking harry to this job is pure speculation.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

So, judging by DannyInvincibles chart there, we should be looking to bring back Brian Kerr?

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Should have never sacked him, the process of sacking him and replacing him with Stan put our team back many years. This is why a lot of people are worried about the prospect of Trap being sacked under these circumstances, our public are notorious for putting pressure on for sacking managers and later regretting it.
In retrospect most reasonable fans would agree that in the past 20 years Stan was the only one who deserved to be sacked and whose successor was a significant improvement.

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

Should have never sacked him, the process of sacking him and replacing him with Stan put our team back many years. This is why a lot of people are worried about the prospect of Trap being sacked under these circumstances, our public are notorious for putting pressure on for sacking managers and later regretting it.
In retrospect most reasonable fans would agree that in the past 20 years Stan was the only one who deserved to be sacked and whose successor was a significant improvement.

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Agree with this although Jack needed to go when he did. Even the most successful management tenures become stale after a while. Not sure Jack was sacked anyway, was he?

Replacing Kerr with Stan was mind boggling. My biggest reget over that issue was not putting large amounts on stan when I got a good tip from a reliable source it would definately be him about three months before he was appointed. Just couldnt give it any credance when i was told!

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Originally Posted by Deckydee

Harry wants the job!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...eland-job.html

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Originally Posted by Duggie

i cant see this, id say harry is waiting for a job to come up in the PL before hed return to management. id say anything linking harry to this job is pure speculation.

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posted about this in the other thread, it's hard to lend any credibility to the sun newspaper linking sun columnist Harry Redknapp to any position, available or not.

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

Should have never sacked him, the process of sacking him and replacing him with Stan put our team back many years. This is why a lot of people are worried about the prospect of Trap being sacked under these circumstances, our public are notorious for putting pressure on for sacking managers and later regretting it.
In retrospect most reasonable fans would agree that in the past 20 years Stan was the only one who deserved to be sacked and whose successor was a significant improvement.

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Don't think I've ever agreed more with a post on here. Good points all round.

Sorry if someone has suggested this already, but Don José Ramón Sandoval, miracle worker with Rayo Vallecano over the last couple of seasons, is available.
He has a track record of of moulding teams that are more than the sum of their parts and playing attractive football to boot. Great motivator although international management is obviously a different kettle of fish.
Communication could be a problem as I doubt he speaks English.

I think Kerr would have been lucky to have had his contract extended just based on merit.

Dull, listless performances when it counted. Obstinate selections and omissions (Dunne & Steven Reid were often overlooked). Failure to kill off games that were virtually won. Lack of conviction.

He worked a lot harder than Trap but was guilty of several similar errors and it seemed that he had lost the dressing room. Whether this was his fault or not, when that happens it's impossible to stay on. Kerr was brilliant in another role for the FAI but I don't think he did a particularly good job for the senior team.

I also think that once the meeja turn against you it's hard to stay on. It creates a poisonous negative attitude to the set-up and this affects the team. I know it's "trial by media" and it's not right, but it's how it is.

I think he was unlucky on occasion and it's a shame that his bridges have been burnt with the FAI. We need people like him at a senior level in our game.

He'd be an ideal guy to be in charge of all footballing operations in Ireland - development, league structures, joining the pyramid and ultimately being the guy that the senior team manager and all other team managers are accountable to.

The CEO should be in charge of admin, operations, finance and government / UEFA / FIFA relations. That's how I'd like to see it anyway.

I've yet to post properly on the speculation relating to Trap's future. To be honest, I'm generally bemused and just not sure what the solution is. It does appear that some sort of fix is needed though, because there does appear to be something wrong. We play very uninspiring football and don't appear to be going forward at all. We're leaking goals in a way we didn't earlier in Trap's tenure. We'll really know where we stand after we've played Sweden and Austria in a few months, but might it be too late by that point if things go pear-shaped?

I find myself disheartened and somewhat disillusioned, but not solely or specifically with Trap; the problem cuts much deeper than who's in charge of the senior team or the system to which the manager happens to adhere. You can chop and change managers all you like, but unless you have a proper developmental structure/pyramid in place - as has been mentioned in previous posts - you're not going to go far, no matter what system a manager wishes to employ. We've arrived on a plateau or hit a glass ceiling, if you will. Europe's elite sides have moved on a level and left us trailing. Changing our manager can't do anything about that.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I find myself disheartened and somewhat disillusioned, but not solely or specifically with Trap; the problem cuts much deeper than who's in charge of the senior team or the system to which the manager happens to adhere. You can chop and change managers all you like, but unless you have a proper developmental structure/pyramid in place - as has been mentioned in previous posts - you're not going to go far, no matter what system a manager wishes to employ. We've arrived on a plateau or hit a glass ceiling, if you will. Europe's elite sides have moved on a level and left us trailing. Changing our manager can't do anything about that.

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this hits the nail on the head. we used to produce some top top players but have not since duffer and keane. until we start producing players of this quality then we are doomed to remain at the same level we are at at best. since i started supporting Ireland 30 years ago we have always had one or two excellent players in every team who were big names in the league they played in. we have nothing remotely similar now

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

this hits the nail on the head. we used to produce some top top players but have not since duffer and keane. until we start producing players of this quality then we are doomed to remain at the same level we are at at best. since i started supporting Ireland 30 years ago we have always had one or two excellent players in every team who were big names in the league they played in. we have nothing remotely similar now

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no the problem is nowadays its much harder to break into a first team in England with all the technically gifted overseas players in England. we will always produce good enough players, getting them 1st team football at the highest level is getting harder and harder.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

this hits the nail on the head. we used to produce some top top players but have not since duffer and keane. until we start producing players of this quality then we are doomed to remain at the same level we are at at best. since i started supporting Ireland 30 years ago we have always had one or two excellent players in every team who were big names in the league they played in. we have nothing remotely similar now

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Were Duffer and Keane strictly products of an Irish footballing structure though or did we just get lucky, if you will (one or two gems will always pop up every once in a while), with English clubs doing the rest of the work for us? Feeding off the scraps of English football academies and over-relying on FIFA's eligibility rules in securing the allegiance of players for whom playing for Ireland is a secondary option is not an ideal way to continue "producing" talent.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Were Duffer and Keane strictly products of an Irish footballing structure though or did we just get lucky

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Ask yourself if any clubs in Ireland benefited from Keane's club transfers.

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Originally Posted by Duggie

no the problem is nowadays its much harder to break into a first team in England with all the technically gifted overseas players in England. we will always produce good enough players, getting them 1st team football at the highest level is getting harder and harder.

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My guess is also that we have produced a few players with enough ability and technical skill by age 15 over the last 10 years or so but they haven't been able to get the leg up they need at a big club because their scouting network and academies are now genuinely global. Without this break, a lot of promise can go unfulfilled. I don't fully buy into the theory that if you have the talent you'll find your level. I think a more accurate proposition is that if you have the talent, the support network, the dedication and the right platform you'll find your best level, not to mention needing a bit of luck.

I don't think Ireland has found an answer to this problem. Even in the case of Doyle and Long we were lucky they went to a progressive club.

Of course it could simply be that the big clubs look at our 14 year-olds and think they're not good enough. Other things being equal you'd probably pick an Irish kid over a south american kid simply because it's less of an acclimatisation risk.

The Airticity League has had an OK track record in being a stepping-stone league in recent years, but I think it needs work to make it better.

Crumlin got at least one solidarity payment in respect of Keane's transfers.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Ask yourself if any clubs in Ireland benefited from Keane's club transfers.

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I've often felt that we're de facto part of the British pyramid system, but without the financial solidarity mechanisms that transfer income downstream.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Crumlin got at least one solidarity payment in respect of Keane's transfers.

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But transfer fees between GB and Ireland are lower than transfer fees intra-GB (or intra-England anyway).

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Ask yourself if any clubs in Ireland benefited from Keane's club transfers.

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both keane and duffs schoolboy clubs benefited financially from their transfers over the years

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Originally Posted by Duggie

no the problem is nowadays its much harder to break into a first team in England with all the technically gifted overseas players in England. we will always produce good enough players, getting them 1st team football at the highest level is getting harder and harder.

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truth in this ok. but surely players we produced before foreign imports really took over the EPL like mcgrath, roy keane and others would get into a top 4 EPL team even in todays world?

Don't underestimate the murky world of player agents and bungs. Getting kids into the EPL and other leagues is a filthy business with all kinds of spivs and crooks involved.

I would watch quite alot of schoolboy football. I would say that the talent we are producing is to a reasonably decent standard (although much poorer than it was during the golden era of Kerr). Clubs like St Kevin's and Crumlin are a breath of fresh air. However, it is sad that the standard of some clubs like Home Farm has greatly diminished.

A major concern that I would have would be that our youths play in big goals with 11 vs 11. It is totally baffling that this has not been addressed. In the past, we produced a very consistent flow of technically brilliant players, who played in similar situations. You could say what has changed? Why aren't we producing a Giles, a Whelan or Brady anymore? In my opinion, the answer is that street football is now practically non-existent. Kids learned the type of tougness, instinctiveness and skill that often cannot be taught in academies from a young age. However, at least in the continental countries, they teach the kids properly and develop a skills set with them that hones similiar skills to street football, even if street football is becoming less common in Germany or Spain these days also.

To answer the question in the original post, I'd replace him with somebody who is willing to fulfill his obligations properly.

As I see it, any national team manager's role is to ensure that he extracts the absolute maximum from the resources available to him and that the tactics selected for each game are those most likely to bring about a positive result.

In the first case, I don't think Trapattoni has done enough experimentation with different players, and virtually no experimentation at all with different systems, in order to determine whether the defensive system we play is actually the most effective system with the resources available to us. The tactics adopted after the Stan fiasco were right for the period of stabilisation and recovery, but they haven't changed much if at all.

It's one thing to adopt a defensive approach in 2008, but there hasn't been any real attempt by Trapattoni since then to experiment with a more attacking approach or to develop a system which places greater emphasis on keeping the ball. It may be the case that the system we use now is the most effective available to us, but I would say that, because of the lack of experimentation, we really don't know if that is the case, but after 4 years in the job, there should be very little doubt as to what our most effective system is. Not enough consideration, in my opinion, has been given to players who have come through in the mean time, and their potential value to the side. That isn't good enough.

Secondly, I don't think that enough attention has been paid to developing tactics for each game and each opponent. We have one style and one style only, and we play that way whether we're away to the top teams or at home to the crap teams. Trap admitted during the Euros that he had no plan B - that should be absolutely unacceptable at Euro finals level. I don't know how much preparation Trap puts into each game, but it is very frustrating to hear him say that he lies awake at night thinking about how he can improve the Irish team, and yet the conclusion he come to virtually every time is the same old plan that sees us give up possession incredibly easily and use the ball woefully when we have it. I think he could do a lot more to prepare the team in terms of who the opponents are, and what their strengths and weaknesses are.

Having said all that, even though I thought he should have gone after the Euros, I don't think that the Germany result is cause for sacking hime. If we'd only been comfortably outplayed and lost 3-0, we'd be in much the same position as we are now, but without the kneejerk reactions. He deserves until after the first games versus Sweden and Austria.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

A major concern that I would have would be that our youths play in big goals with 11 vs 11. It is totally baffling that this has not been addressed. In the past, we produced a very consistent flow of technically brilliant players, who played in similar situations. You could say what has changed? Why aren't we producing a Giles, a Whelan or Brady anymore? In my opinion, the answer is that street football is now practically non-existent. Kids learned the type of tougness, instinctiveness and skill that often cannot be taught in academies from a young age. However, at least in the continental countries, they teach the kids properly and develop a skills set with them that hones similiar skills to street football, even if street football is becoming less common in Germany or Spain these days also.

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Think I read somewhere that DDSL will be addressing this from next year?

I wouldn't trust Harry one bit. The first time a team like Liverpool comes calling looking for a manager he'd be off.

I like the points Osarusan expressed but do you really expect Trap to alter his attitude to our players and his tactics by the time we meet Sweden and Austria?
I thought if Trap had put his mind to changing things after the Euros (as he sorta said he would or could), he would apply himself doggedly to the task, 100% sincerely. Not that we would be be a pass or die team but at least a work in progress.
Somebody remarked somewhere that Kazakhstan (after getting beaten by Austria) are not as good as we thought they were, but I say wait until they meet us in Dublin, we will make them look very good.
I use to think that it must be that our players were not technically competent but now I know that's a load of bollíx. Not that they are brilliant ball players but with a decent intl coach they have enough ability to play football and achieve results. Intl football has changed a lot in the last 6 years, but that change did not happen 6 years ago and stop changing, it has continued to change and changed a lot since since Trap took over.