The suspension tool often relates to government intervention in national associations.
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The suspension tool often relates to government intervention in national associations.
So....let's petition the government. It does after all involve the people of Ireland who are being deprived of an opportunity to see the best players in the world play in Limerick by a near tyrannical despot who runs the organisation. It certainly is in the economic interest of the mid-west region and in the national interest of the development of the game, which is partly funded by government grant money.
OK I've thought about this a bit so I've finalised my theory on it.
1) Limerick, through an agency, agreed to play Barcelona in Thomand Park.
2) The League refused on the basis that there were other LOI games that night
3) Limerick went to media to complain
3) League said it was because of a) other games b) they were looking to bring Barca over themselves and c) the mysterious "3rd party agreement"
4) Limerick complained some more. Media cited friendlies played only last year that clashed with league fixtures
5) League said the agreement covered friendlies over 20,000 attendees.
6) Clubs and media said "huh?"
7) League said agreement actually covers crowds of 15,000+ but their friendly v Man Utd is not covered by agreement.
8) League adds that a reason why the game wasn't sanctioned was that it would benefit only one club. Then lists several friendlies that only involved one club including some organised by 3rd parties)
9) Limerick, along with other clubs, state they have never heard of such agreement
10) All hell breaks loose
We know some things.
1) The FAI clain to have signed an agreement with a 3rd party relating to friendly games.
2) The clubs in the league were never informed of such an agreement
3) The FAI has refused to name the 3rd party
4) The FAI is in financial ****s due to Aviva
5) The FAI wanted to host Barcelona in the Aviva stadium
Some reasons the FAI list for the refusal can be easily dismissed
1) Clash with league fixtures. The friendlies last year did (Waterford v Ipswich for example).
2) Only benefits one team. All friendlies granted in that last 10 years have been similar.
3) FAI won't allow other 3rd parties involved. In the last 3 years Platinum One have organised friendlies for Pats and Rovers.
4) FAI won't allow games played on non FAI pitches. Cup Final was played in the RDS in 2008 and Pats v Hertha/Steaua likewise. Tallaght is of course a municipal stadium too.
The only possible answer is that the FAI need the Aviva Stadium to host every game that could possibly make any substantial money and rather than be truthful with Limerick, they thought they'd fob them off with the "clash" excuse. When Limerick cried foul, the FAI were genuinely shocked and went into a tailspin spewing out several different possible excuses, hoping one would be accepted by clubs and media. If it was simply a case of a legally binding contract (which didn't affect LOI v Man U), then they'd have no problem at all in producing it for the clubs. Particularly as the clause in the league's participation allows the FAI to sign commercial contracts "for the good" of football here (and they have no bother in announcing other positive commercial agreements). The only query is whether such an agreement exists at all
Now granted this post is a long winded way of saying what I thought when the story first broke (FAI were being greedy swines) but can anyone think of something I've missed or a reaosn why my theory is wrong?
The only difference in my thinking is that I'm far from than convinced that any third-party agreement exists at all. I'd say it's more likely that it is another of the excuses coughed up by the FAI as a response to their other reasons being discredited. It basically means that Thomond is ruled out, and therefore any friendly generating the kind of revenue worth something to the FAI will be at the Aviva.
As i said previously, Limerick have gone legal on this, and I'd expect a legal request for the third-party agreement to be made soon enough (I should state that I have absolutely no connection or position with Limerick FC, and all of this is just speculation on my part - as in, that's what I'd do if I were the solicitor - get the agreement out in the open, and start hounding the agent, whoever they are (presumably Kentaro)).
Not to mention Ireland v South Africa in Thomond last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I think your logic is broadly correct alright. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if the FAI agreed to the friendly in principle and were then told by this third party that it contravened their agreement, unbenownst to the FAI. When this was pointed out, the FAI realised they'd screwed up and are now in a very embarrassing situation, so they try and fob it off with strong-handed nonsense excuses in the hope that no-one complained. The FAI strike me as the kind who'd find it very hard to put their hands up and say "We messed up here, sorry".
dodge you have far to much time on your hands...unless of course you work for a local authority, then its a proper use of your time
Bang on the money summation there Dodge
Anybody else think one lie by the FAI is just one too many? (not to mind the numerous ones they seem to have been spurting out)
I also remain to be convinced, as there can surely be no legitimate reason for not showing this contract to FAI member clubs if it does exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I think it has got the to stage, if the FAI grant the game, they look fools and if they continue to not sanction it, they look fools aswell. They are in a real mess at the moment.
I have a question pertaining to the Sunderland friendly at Thomond Park. The FAI say that it was allowed because it was a charitable event, but it involves neither the national team or a LOI team so what business is of the FAI?
If 10 mates and I invite Milan over for a kick about in front of 15,001 of our nearest and dearest friends who we are charging to get in for our own monetary gain, will the FAI step in?
Also, is Limerick FC a charitable body? (I know UCD AFC is, but that may be due to college links). If so, then this game is technically for charity too.
Just re-watched it and he said,Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldofmarkets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran Gavin on MNS
http://www.3tsbroadcasting.com/_data/docs/smashy.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
sorry, too soon? ;)
I agree with you that there'd be very little benefit to the domestic game in either case. From a personal point of view, I'd rather see Barcelona face stronger opposition in a larger-capacity venue.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
You don't think a game played in front of 50,000 in a venue co-owned by the FAI would bring in more money than one in front of ~25,000 at a venue Irish football has no stake in? I have to say I disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
My bad, the IRFU.Quote:
Originally Posted by KevB76
Not that date, but I'd be surprised if Barcelona would visit Ireland twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by KevB76
In any case, it certainly looks like the FAI is looking after itself at the expense of a club.
yes, and rightly so. All games played by professional require tha sanction of the country's governing body. Doesn't matter if its Limerick hurler v Barca or Pats v Clliftonville. If Limerick were to play barca in the Nou Camp it'd need the consent of the Spanish FA (insurance, refs etc etc). Its usually just a tick the box type thing, and in my memory no game has ever been refused.Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
osarusa, sorry if I didn't make it clear enough. I too very much doubt the existence of such an agreement.
Don't think it is the IRFU either, well to a certain extent not the IRFU anyway. I am a ten year ticket holder in Thomond Park and they made a point at the time of opening of saying "Thomond Park Stadium" is its own company that will be looking to not only host Rugby but also Football, Concerts, Wedding Receptions, Private Functions, to raise money to pay for the stadium. It is in Thomond Park Stadiums interests to get this game played also. This is where the FAI holding all the cards and making sure all the big games are held in the AVIVA would affect "Thomond Park Stadium" the company and bring the competition act ive seen mentioned here already into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
And if the Dublin footballers play Kerry infront of 84000 at Croke Park it will bring in even more money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
If The Rolling Stones play Hyde Park in London, it will bring in even more money again.
What in the name of God is your point man??
You basically said you didn't know enough to comment then went out to spout a load of rubbish about Munster Rugby making all the money. That's all.
Anyway, where do you think the moneys going if Oireland ever play Barca in the Aviva?? Are we all going to get shiny new stands out of it??
John Delaney earns more than Limerick FC's squad FFS.
That would make sense - from what I can gather Thomond Park Stadium Company Limited (awful name) is a 50/50 partnership between Munster Rugby and the IRFU, but the IRFU obviously calls the shots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofspring
You're right that the FAI hold the cards, but were they to sanction a game in Limerick, there'd be no option other than to have it in Thomond, so the Thomond company would be able to drive a really hard bargain. Maybe they would be more receptive than I give them credit for, but they have to look after their own interests and Limerick would definitely need them more than they'd need Limerick FC.
You're the one who questioned my take on the finances. I'm just saying the net financial gain from having a game at the Aviva is greater than having it at Thomond. Fairly basic point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
I don't know enough about the exact contractual details to comment on the exact contractual details. I do know that playing a game in the Aviva is going to bring more money to Irish football than playing it in Thomond.Quote:
You basically said you didn't know enough to comment then went out to spout a load of rubbish about Munster Rugby making all the money. That's all.
Anyway, where do you think the moneys going if Oireland ever play Barca in the Aviva?? Are we all going to get shiny new stands out of it??
John Delaney earns more than Limerick FC's squad FFS.
The Financial Arrangements for this particular game. You know NOTHING about them. Zero. Zilch. Nada. You're just blindly speculating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Define "Irish Football"Quote:
I do know that playing a game in the Aviva is going to bring more money to Irish football than playing it in Thomond
Could mean anything from putting jacuzzis in Abbotstown to building a clubhouse for Ballymun United to paying off the FAI's Lansdowne debts*
*That last one is actually quite likely.
Almost 100% sure Thomond Park have a charge (€100,000 last i heard) and thats it so they wouldn't be trying to drive a hard bargain. Relations would also be good between Thomond Park and Limerick what with Limerick being involved in some way in the Shane Geoghegan Trust Day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Of course I know more than nothing. More tickets sold = more income. Own stadium = no rent. It shouldn't be difficult to extrapolate that a fixture in the Aviva will generate more money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Two sides of the same coin. The quicker the Lansdowne debt is paid the better, as far as I'm concerned. Again, I'm not sure what arrangements the FAI has to service its debt - it may well be that they are currently on schedule and they wouldn't need to put the proceeds of a hypothetical game towards servicing it - but at the end of the day it's a few hundred grand that will help improve the organisation's financial standing.Quote:
Define "Irish Football"
Could mean anything from putting jacuzzis in Abbotstown to building a clubhouse for Ballymun United to paying off the FAI's Lansdowne debts*
*That last one is actually quite likely.
As much as I'm sure money is wasted on junkets and the like at the FAI, it is a not-for-profit organisation that puts a lot of money into the game at grassroots level, and I'd expect a cash injection from any fixture would filter down to the clubs and underage game in some form. I don't have an awful lot of faith in the organisation, but I don't think it's the worst in the world either.
That's interesting, but seemingly counter-productive in this case. If that's true, I can definitely see why the FAI chose to play South Africa and Australia in Thomond if they were asking for a fraction of what the GAA was asking for Croker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofspring
You know nothing about the financial arrangements for the proposed Limerick FC v FC Barcelona game in Thomond Park on the 31st of July.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
All you have done here is compare the potential revenues from this game with the potential revenues from another game which only exists inside your head.
It's not even about Limerick FC anyway though is it. There's a bigger picture here, somewhere in this thread.......
Why on earth are you comparing two completely different games?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Because it's not feasible for both to take place...
There is no Barca game in the Aviva. It's pie in the sky. There's no point comparing it to anything.
It was never ever feasible for Barca to play in the Aviva this year as the only day they're available is the day the IRFU have a rugby doubleheader in the Aviva.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
And it's perfectly feasible for Limerick to play them this year, and an airtricity/Ireland XI to play them next year.
This is why the possible Limerick friendly isn't taking much-needed funds out of the game - it's either Limerick or nobody on July 31st. The FAI have gone for nobody.
And i'm no mathematician or accountant, but even if Limerick's friendly had generated 1 euro for domestic football, it's 1 euro more than no friendly at all on that day will generate.
Well the FAI have said they're in active negotiations with Barcelona so they must have some date in mind, unless they're lying about the whole thing. If the FAI doesn't organise a corresponding fixture, I'll admit that they fudged it (admittedly they've fudged just about everything so far) but as a fan of a Dublin team and Irish football in general I think a fixture at the Aviva is vastly preferable to one in Limerick.
They said they were looking at next year from what I read
I think the vast majority of loi fans would prefer fixtures anywhere than limerick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
But in fairness it's probably a better place for limerick to stage a home fixture than dublin.
I don't recommend holding your breath waiting on the fai to announce a game vs barca, rumor would have it at least a year off.
In that case they've probably screwed up. I guess we'll have to wait and see what this contract business involves then.
What was that about the clubs banding together?
Fear of adverse reaction from the powers that be by the looks of thingsQuote:
A meeting of the Airtricity League Clubs took place yesterday prior to the FAI Cup Draw. Discussions on the continuation of the current League Merger with the FAI was the sole purpose of the meeting. It was accepted that the merger with the FAI has been an overwhelming success and has addressed many difficulties of the clubs and the league in general.
The sentiments expressed at the meeting were very positive towards continuing with the Merger and the Clubs acknowledged the positive role that the FAI has played in developing the game at Senior level in this country. The outcome of the meeting was that a postal vote would be undertaken to confirm the Clubs intention to continue with the merger with the FAI.
As the meeting was breaking up a representative of Limerick FC addressed the meeting and detailed their current difficulties concerning their proposed friendly with FC Barcelona. On listening to Limerick FC’s viewpoint, the meeting agreed to contact the FAI seeking clarification on matters that may preclude a friendly match being sanctioned.
At no stage was a formal vote of the clubs undertaken.
The Clubs feel that some of the sensational reporting that followed this meeting is not truly reflective of the context of the meeting. Portrayal of the meeting in this light was not envisaged and was certainly not intended.
Or at least holding fire until they get a reply
if they get that, then we'll see
FAI most likely made it clear that clubs should wind their neck in on this or they will pull out out of the LoI
I know a lot of people are hoping that happens but I still think a national league needs to be run by the national association (preferably a more competent one but this is the hand the cloubs have been dealt with)
Fran Gavin needs top resign however after his performance on MNS, clearly stumbling over his half-truths and trying to shift 100% of the attention on to Limerick so the hard questions about this 3rd party agreement aren't asked
Au contraire. They haven't screwed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
They've done exactly what they wanted to do, and if Limerick had rolled over like the FAI presumed they would, we wouldn't know about any of this.
Of course the FAI had no agreement with Barca. Their name may have been on an FAI short or a long list to consider a friendly at some future date (along with AC Milan and various other footballing superpowers) but its clear that the FAI are pre-emptively laying down a line in the sand as to how things will work in the new Aviva world, where cashflow to the Association is the overwhelming concern.
It will be interesting to see which clubs crumble first. I'm actually surprised they got as far as signing a joint statement. Over half the clubs wouldn't either have the demand/wherewithall or contacts to organise a big-name friendly anyway, so they are the easy targets for the FAI. Once you get a couple onside, its divide and conquer and before you know it Limerick are left sitting on their own like chumps.
I think you're being a little fanciful. They're unlikely to go to all this trouble unless somebody was telling them they couldn't sanction the fixture.
Then you would have to wonder why our national association has made such binding agreements that work against the best interests of the individual clubs no?
You've got to consider the possibility that the 3rd party agreement doesn't exist...at least one that precludes any other games by a LOI side of 15/20k attendance. I want to see the clubs force disclosure of this agreement. If it does exist, I suspect its the Aviva sponsorship deal. 15k may be the breakeven point for attendance at that stadium. In order to get value for their sponsorship money, they want it open for as many game days as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Its one thing for the FAI to hold all their games there....its quite another for them to prevent individual clubs from holding games elsewhere. While Dublin clubs could potentially host a glamour friendly there....none of the other clubs could..although I doubt the FAI would allow say St.Pats bring Mourinho's Inter to the Aviva anyway as not enough of the revenue would go directly to Abbottsown, prefering instead to bring Inter themselves.
Now this whole mess could only happen in one place, Limerick. As there's no other suitable stadium for marquee teams to visit with attendance over 15/20k. So I guess it won't effect most clubs. Removing of this facility from Limerick FC's potential revenue is a huge shame for Limerick FC and the city. I wonder if the FAI or Aviva foresaw the possiblity of Thomond Park taking revenue from the new Aviva in the long run.
The bigger picture however is that all clubs now know they have limits placed on how much they can grow by the FAI. Better hope nice stadiums don't get built in a town near you. The clubs need to have all commercial agreements and restrictions aired out in front of them before they agree to re-upping the PA. The current setup facilitates the moving of potential revenue from the clubs to the FAI so we can pay an Italian €2M to fail with a team from the English Premiership. Admittedly the potential revenue of the clubs was historically low...but as we've just seen, could be much much higher. Those limits are now the same for all our LOI clubs.
If it is due to their contract with Aviva I'd be interested to know if the clubs were informed of a change to the participation agreement as obviously the Aviva deal was only announced last year. Yes you could still blame the clubs for overlooking it if that turned out to be the case but it would seem quite shady of the FAI to just insert it and not inform the clubs.
That of course is going under the assumption that the Aviva deal is what has caused this, but I think it's a fair one to make at this point, especially considering the silence from the FAI on the matter
It's worked against the best interests of one club in this particular instance. If this clause does in fact exist, it's an unusual one for a company like Kentaro or Platinum One to put in unless they had an intention of actually invoking it. You'd have to take into account the fixtures organised by Kentaro or whoever in judging whether the deal was beneficial or detrimental for Irish clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Well a game at Thomond wouldn't interfere with that as the FAI doesn't appear to be arranging a game on that date. I hadn't considered the possibility Aviva could be the third party, though. It's an interesting possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldofmarkets
I suspect the RDS may be the intended target as its capacity is just a notch over 15,000 and Kentaro have two upcoming fixtures there.Quote:
Now this whole mess could only happen in one place, Limerick. As there's no other suitable stadium for marquee teams to visit with attendance over 15/20k. So I guess it won't effect most clubs. Removing of this facility from Limerick FC's potential revenue is a huge shame for Limerick FC and the city. I wonder if the FAI or Aviva foresaw the possiblity of Thomond Park taking revenue from the new Aviva in the long run.
I'm not sure how much Limerick FC would grow as a result of Barcelona's visit. It would be a windfall payday and a massive coup for the club but in all likelihood it would be a once-off.Quote:
The bigger picture however is that all clubs now know they have limits placed on how much they can grow by the FAI. Better hope nice stadiums don't get built in a town near you. The clubs need to have all commercial agreements and restrictions aired out in front of them before they agree to re-upping the PA. The current setup facilitates the moving of potential revenue from the clubs to the FAI so we can pay an Italian €2M to fail with a team from the English Premiership. Admittedly the potential revenue of the clubs was historically low...but as we've just seen, could be much much higher. Those limits are now the same for all our LOI clubs.