Potentially eligible players thread

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Originally Posted by donnymark

just to add that we foreign born Irish are a mixed up bunch.out of the 3 of us born to tipp and cork parents 1 is totally Irish and into Irish things-me, 1 is half Irish half english-me brother and the 3rd is purely english-me sister.all had exactly the same upbringing and holidays and all the other connections here and back in Ireland.this of course doesnt mean that either of them wouldnt be delighted as well to have a child grace a Ireland shirt one day.
similarly a mate of mine at work has only begun to 'feel' Irish in the last 5 or 6 years.his folks are from cavan and it wasnt until his late 30's he threw away his england gear and got himself a cavan top and a london irish tattoo.
so you see it takes many forms and you cant simply dismiss someone for being plastic or not being Irish.i'd ask people who do this to check out the bit in the constitution dedicated to us...

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Welcome aboard Donnymark. Your situation isn't at all uncommon. I have a lot of first cousins in and around London and though the demarkations are by househould they are nonetheles similar to those under your roof. One set (both parents Irish) will say the only thing English about them is their accent and address, another set (1 Irish + 1 English parents) will say they half Irish half English while yet another set ( similarly 1 Irish + 1 English parents) will tell you they're English of Irish extraction.

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Originally Posted by Junior

International football is already scoffed at by many fans of club football, this type of rubbish, whore'ing your country around to any guy who cant get a game for his 'chosen' country is embarassing and imo devalues the committment the likes of Breen, Kilbane etal.

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I'd hope the irony does not pass you by.

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Originally Posted by donnymark

i'd ask people who do this to check out the bit in the constitution dedicated to us...

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or go to James Connolly's grave and tell him he wasn't irish because he was born in Edinburgh.

Fact is any person with an Irish parent or grandparent is as entitled to an Irish passport and citizenship as anyone born here, its their birth right, if they chose to exercise this right and subseuqently chose to represent or even support Ireland at any part of their life then I welcome them with open arms irregardless of their past...sure it isn't ideal but we've got a limited player pool as it is without excluding sons and daughters (grand sons & grand daughters too) of the diaspora, I'd even go as far as suggesting that any Ireland team that excluded players not born in Ireland would not actually be wholly representative of Modern Ireland

can someone tell me why, in general, are the female members of these families always less likely to value their irish heritage?! Maybe the wording there is not quite correct but you get the drift.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

can someone tell me why, in general, are the female members of these families always less likely to value their irish heritage?!

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No, no, you're looking for the misogyny thread.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I'd hope the irony does not pass you by.

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Im afraid it has - what am I missing?

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Originally Posted by Junior

Im afraid it has - what am I missing?

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You were referring to club fans of the professional and semi pro game earlier? To whom any new recruit, financially induced to come to the club, contract loyalty, usual first photo is the club scarf waved in the air for the satisfaction of simple minded fans that they have a genuine club man. Throw in a decent badge kiss now and again. Two years later they are off following the best offer.
Those fans complaining about a dual national whoring on a limited either/or choice.
Doesn't that strike you as rather odd?

Of the players mentioned, Noble is not interested, O'Hara is more interested in hanging out with a footballer bike (D.Lloyd), Nolan is a championship midfielder (of which we have many) and the Ferdinands probably arent bright enough to point out Ireland on a map, let alone play for us.

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Originally Posted by geysir

You were referring to club fans of the professional and semi pro game earlier? To whom any new recruit, financially induced to come to the club, contract loyalty, usual first photo is the club scarf waved in the air for the satisfaction of simple minded fans that they have a genuine club man. Throw in a decent badge kiss now and again. Two years later they are off following the best offer.
Those fans complaining about a dual national whoring on a limited either/or choice.
Doesn't that strike you as rather odd?

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Ok, I see what youre saying now. Its a very valid point.

So are footballers, in the main, mercenaries whether it be the club or country they choose? I think we kind of expect it a club level nowadays with the financial rewards that are available but not at international level surely? Maybe you could only throw that accusation at the small minority of 'Vinnie Jones' but they appear to be on the increase in number.

If that is what International football has become or is becoming and these rule changes are assisting in that process, then Im not in favour.

I want the 11 men in Green to be in no doubt, that they are out there, representing their country for the nation. I dont want it to be anything less.

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Originally Posted by Wangball

Fact is any person with an Irish parent or grandparent is as entitled to an Irish passport and citizenship as anyone born here, its their birth right, if they chose to exercise this right and subseuqently chose to represent or even support Ireland at any part of their life then I welcome them with open arms irregardless of their past...sure it isn't ideal but we've got a limited player pool as it is without excluding sons and daughters (grand sons & grand daughters too) of the diaspora, I'd even go as far as suggesting that any Ireland team that excluded players not born in Ireland would not actually be wholly representative of Modern Ireland

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We're all aware of that fact. There's a distinct difference imo in mindset of the likes of Kilbane or McGeady/Leon Best declaring for us at a young age and some chancer deciding that yeah Oi'm Oirish at 28 just to give their career a boost or because England doesnt want them. E.g Clinton O'chancer Morrisson.

Oh and yeah he gave 100% on the pitch. So bleedin what.

Irish Blood, English heart, This i'm made of...............

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Originally Posted by as_i_say

We're all aware of that fact. There's a distinct difference imo in mindset of the likes of Kilbane or McGeady/Leon Best declaring for us at a young age and some chancer deciding that yeah Oi'm Oirish at 28 just to give their career a boost or because England doesnt want them. E.g Clinton O'chancer Morrisson.

Oh and yeah he gave 100% on the pitch. So bleedin what.

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I wouldn't put Leon Best in the same bracket as Kilbane or McGeady. He dithered around before he fully committed himself to us. He even appeared in a couple of England underage squads a few years ago after pulling out of some Irish squads a few months beforehand.

Reality differs somewhat to your interpretation of the Leon saga.
Best's story is much more accurately relayed on the Leon Best thread by Livehead and his account has been verified by events and other sources.

Why do Irish managers of the modern era not look at LOI talent.
There are many very good players whom would aptly fit within the current crop of players, I think its was crazy when we have a goalkeeping crisis that Murphy (Bohs) doesn't even figure in the thoughts of the management, instead they choose two sub-standard keepers who have only played a handfull of games all year. Why don't good professional Irish players in Ireland not get a look in.

Do you think Kevin Doyle would have been called up if he hadn't have signed for Reading ??

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Originally Posted by geysir

Reality differs somewhat to your interpretation of the Leon saga.
Best's story is much more accurately relayed on the Leon Best thread by Livehead and his account has been verified by events and other sources.

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I'm aware of his interpretation. I'm also aware of a number of facts. Best was named in an England U20 squad while he hadn't made himself available for Ireland squads for one reason or another for a long period even though he had been appearing for Southampton in Youth Cup games and reserve outings.

Of course now that Best is a full international he will always claim that he never had any intention to play for anyone other than Ireland. That goes without saying. Westwood I'm sure would say the same as would St Ledger if asked. That doesn't mean it's necessarily 100% true, it's just the way of the world.

i wouldnt include mcgeady in any of these brackets. yes he was born in scotland but hasnt he stated he was only ever going to play for us surely knowing full well the stick he would get. hes 100% for me.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

I'm aware of his interpretation. I'm also aware of a number of facts. Best was named in an England U20 squad while he hadn't made himself available for Ireland squads for one reason or another for a long period even though he had been appearing for Southampton in Youth Cup games and reserve outings.

Of course now that Best is a full international he will always claim that he never had any intention to play for anyone other than Ireland. That goes without saying. Westwood I'm sure would say the same as would St Ledger if asked. That doesn't mean it's necessarily 100% true, it's just the way of the world.

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I will admit having not had any communication with Leon for about 8 years (and then I wasn't his friend by any means) but based on the experience I had of him and his family at school, I will vouch for his commitment to Ireland above England. Not saying I can explain his appearance in the England under-age squad, but I believe he never played for them, whereas he did for us on many occasions. Maybe Livehead can back me up here - he knew him far better than I did.

This isn't fact, so I could be totally wrong - just my opinion based on what I knew of him and his family which, as I say, isn't a huge amount.

i'm born in England but raised as Irish. no way I would play for any other country if I was good enough at any sport in which we have a team.

anyone in this situation who choses another country over Ireland is the result of bad parenting.;)

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Originally Posted by youngirish

I wouldn't put Leon Best in the same bracket as Kilbane or McGeady. He dithered around before he fully committed himself to us. He even appeared in a couple of England underage squads a few years ago after pulling out of some Irish squads a few months beforehand.

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He didn't even know about the call up to the England squad, and was injured at the time anyway
From http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/be...k-1752299.html

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"Ireland and England called me up for the same international dates, but I was on loan to Sheffield Wednesday at the time, I had broken my fifth metatarsal so I wasn't able to play for anyone," Best told the Evening Herald after training with Ireland's senior squad for the first time at Arsenal's training complex in London yesterday. "Ireland have always shown me loyalty and I wanted to show that loyalty back. England called me up as I was doing well at the time, but I always wanted to play for Ireland and Ireland only. It wasn't a case of me making a choice or a career move -- I was injured at the time I was called up by England, so that's why I missed some Ireland games as well.
"When England did call me up for that game against Russia, they didn't contact me or ask me, they just named me in their squad for the game. I didn't know what was happening at the time, but I have always had a strong relationship with Ireland.

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Trapp passed a comment in the original posts about "Two or three players"

I wonder does he have anyone in mind already??

Thanks Tets, but as we all know there'll still be plenty of cranks here who'll let the facts get in the way of a good moan about him not being committed down the line.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Thanks Tets, but as we all know there'll still be plenty of cranks here who'll let the facts get in the way of a good moan about him not being committed down the line.

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As I previously posted there are no facts there just statements from a player after he's made his Ireland debut saying exactly what you would expect him to say regarding his appearance in underage England squads. Where are the facts? Do people on here seriously expect him when asked such questions to say he wa unsure whether he wanted to play for Ireland or England at the time. Don't be ridiculous.

The facts are as I stated previously, he had made himself unavailable for a number of underage Irish squads over a long period and then appeared in an underage England squad before getting injured and being unable to take his place in that same squad.

Best wasn't injured when he first found out he was in the England squad. The squad was named on the 4th of August. He didn't get injured until the following week (the 9th). Livehead didn't seem too sure back then whether Best would be open to playing for England or otherwise even if it was only to further his career (he was very highly rated back in 2005 after a great run to the final in the FA Youth Cup and a couple of appearances in the Premiership for Southampton so England were a very real possibility for him back then even though now he wouldn't get near their squad).

A word from the wise - question the information that is fed to you don't just take it as gospel.

http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=27940

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Best

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Originally Posted by youngirish

As I previously posted there are no facts there just statements from a player after he's made his Ireland debut saying exactly what you would expect him to say regarding his appearance in underage England squads. Where are the facts?

The facts are as I stated previously he had made himself unavailable for a number of underage Irish squads over a long period and then appeared in an underage England squad.

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The facts are that the statements were made before his debut, not after
The facts are that he played for the U-21s since that call up to the England squad: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...k=view&id=3020
The facts are that Worthington approached him to declare for the North, but he didn't switch allegiances: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...135052,00.html
The facts are that 6 months before making his debut, he gave this interview to the Coventry Telegraph: http://www.coventrycitybanter.co.uk/...lic-of-ir.html

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"It's frustrating (that he wasn't called into the B squad) but I'm still quite young and if they want to involve me in the future then I'm there."

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The facts are that the statements were made before his debut, not after
The facts are that he played for the U-21s since that call up to the England squad: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...k=view&id=3020
The facts are that Worthington approached him to declare for the North, but he didn't switch allegiances: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...135052,00.html
The facts are that 6 months before making his debut, he gave this interview to the Coventry Telegraph: http://www.coventrycitybanter.co.uk/...lic-of-ir.html

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Read the full post and try to understand what it plainly implies. At that stage he already had decided who he was committed to and he surely understood he'd have no hope of making it near the full England team in the forseeable future, if ever. He's almost 23 now and still only a bit player for Coventry hardly the sort of talent England looks for in their strikeforce.

However, this was not the case when he was one of the most highly rated youngsters in England at Southampton. Also why would he play for the North what's that got to do with it? He as far as I'm aware has no allegiance whatsoever to the North. Undoubtedly he has some connection to ourselves and England so that point is moot.

He probably wouldn't have declared for outer Mongolia either if asked.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Read the full post and try to understand what it plainly implies. At that stage he already had decided who he was committed to and he surely understood he'd have no hope of making it near the full England team in the forseeable future, if ever. He's almost 23 now and still only a bit player for Coventry hardly the sort of talent England looks for their strikeforce.

However, this was not the case when he was one of the most highly rated youngsters in England at Southampton. Also why would he play for the North what's that got to do with it? He as far as I'm aware has no allegiance whatsoever to the North. Undoubtedly he has some connection to ourselves and England so that point is moot.

He probably wouldn't have declared for outer Mongolia either if asked.

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where are all the facts gone YI? All i see now is speculation... dont really understand where youre trying to go with this or why youre trying to belittle Best's commitment to us. It seems more than genuine to me.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

where are all the facts gone YI? All i see now is speculation... dont really understand where youre trying to go with this or why youre trying to belittle Best's commitment to us. It seems more than genuine to me.

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I'm actually not trying to belittle his commitment. I'm just pointing out that he shouldn't be compared on here to the likes of Kilbane or McGeady who have been always commited to us 100% without first knowing his history as a player.

Read this link Tets posted. It actually states he refused to rule out switching allegiances so it seems to imply he wasn't always fully committed to us. Thanks for that Tets:

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...135052,00.html

I can only talk for myself but I'd have to be threatened with having my ba*ls cut off with a rusty blade while being forced to watch a 24 hour TV marathon of the X-factor, Big Brother and Britain's Got Talent (without Kelly Brook on the panel) back to back before ever considering the possibility of representing NI or England. And even then once I agreed to do it and was released I'd kill myself first before putting on the jersey.

...I almost feel like giving Nigel Worthington a call about your eligibility....;)

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

...I almost feel like giving Nigel Worthington a call about your eligibility....;)

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Do you think he would be that desperate for me to play?

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Originally Posted by youngirish

I'm actually not trying to belittle his commitment. I'm just pointing out that he shouldn't be compared on here to the likes of Kilbane or McGeady who have been always commited to us 100% without first knowing his history as a player.

Read this link Tets posted. It actually states he refused to rule out switching allegiances so it seems to imply he wasn't always fully committed to us. Thanks for that Tets:

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...135052,00.html

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It is your speculative interpretation of news stories to support your point, which is in question.
Best says nothing in that article to support your interpretation.
Or do you just swallow wholesale any journalistic scribble as opposed to the spoken words of the player.

For what it's worth, Leon Best getting called into, and subsequently being unavailable for, an England U-20 squad almost 4 years doesn't particularly bother me. It doesn't bother me that he doesn't remember what date he was called into the squad, or that he was actually injured 5 days after, instead of sometime before, that date. It doesn't bother me that he didn't know anything official about Worthington wanting to know if he would declare for the North. It doesn't bother me that since he didn't say "I'm refusing to rule out switching my allegiance", some journalist chose to put those words into an article for him. He's a full Irish international now, and I will support and cheer for him on the pitch, that's just what I do.

I registered on this board 5 and a half years ago, and I've never added anyone to my ignore list before this, and I really wish I didn't have to. Ordinarily I'd prefer to debate this out, but I've had enough. Life's too short.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

For what it's worth, Leon Best getting called into, and subsequently being unavailable for, an England U-20 squad almost 4 years doesn't particularly bother me. It doesn't bother me that he doesn't remember what date he was called into the squad, or that he was actually injured 5 days after, instead of sometime before, that date. It doesn't bother me that he didn't know anything official about Worthington wanting to know if he would declare for the North. It doesn't bother me that since he didn't say "I'm refusing to rule out switching my allegiance", some journalist chose to put those words into an article for him. He's a full Irish international now, and I will support and cheer for him on the pitch, that's just what I do.

I registered on this board 5 and a half years ago, and I've never added anyone to my ignore list before this, and I really wish I didn't have to. Ordinarily I'd prefer to debate this out, but I've had enough. Life's too short.

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The last act of a desperate man who's point was proven to be wrong.

Just found out this guy could play Ireland.

what do you think?

http://backofthenet.wikia.com/wiki/Joey_Barton

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs

Just found out this guy could play Ireland.

what do you think?

http://backofthenet.wikia.com/wiki/Joey_Barton

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Very good player.

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Originally Posted by Den Perry

Very good player.

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When was the last time he had a decent game. Reckon he will be finished playing very shortly.

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Originally Posted by drummerboy

When was the last time he had a decent game. Reckon he will be finished playing very shortly.

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Agreed. I never understood the hype around Joey Barton's ability.

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs

Just found out this guy could play Ireland.

what do you think?

http://backofthenet.wikia.com/wiki/Joey_Barton

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Hasn't he played for Englad already or do friendlies count?

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs

Just found out this guy could play Ireland.

what do you think?

http://backofthenet.wikia.com/wiki/Joey_Barton

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Absolutely not!!!

(I take it you were being sarcastic anyway) :rolleyes:

He has always wanted to play for Ireland; if you refer back to that old thread which you quoted me on; I was confused as to why he had been called up. That said, when I saw him last he said no-one had been in touch from Ireland for a long time but he was still hoping.

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Originally Posted by livehead1

He has always wanted to play for Ireland; if you refer back to that old thread which you quoted me on; I was confused as to why he had been called up. That said, when I saw him last he said no-one had been in touch from Ireland for a long time but he was still hoping.

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What's his connection to Ireland Livehead is it that his mother is from Ireland or her parents?