Could you really see Keane going to those kind of lengths for someone though?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
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Could you really see Keane going to those kind of lengths for someone though?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
remember when Jack Charlton appeared on late late after the season ofter Saipan and he asked what Keane said to Mccarthy and Kenny whispered into his ear like a school snitch? now this spoon will probably lick the hole off Roy tonight
Nothing too juicy thereQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Why was it pre-recorded? Is it just me or does RK look like a cartoon satan?
Presume he needed to be getting back to England to take care of business. Don't see the resemblance really!!
Then Roy would have said 'don't waste it, like I did'.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
I'd say your thoughts are more what you would like to believe.
Roy says 'don't waste it when you have a good manager'.
In this context he regrets missing the WC but blames the bad manager.
I think a question that Keane should be asked is this.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
If you had a top player in your set up who wanted preferential treatment as in coming in late for games or leave a little early after games, what would you do and how would you approach it.
Secondly if this said player then questioned your authority in relation to the set up of the team and the preperation of the team, and wanted more professional attitude and set up but went mouthing to the press about it, how woud you deal with it.
i cant back up what i think but between yesterdays stuff and interviews over the last year or so i have formed an opinion that he regrets it, including his own part in the whole mess at the timeQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Can I suggest a third question to complete this theme:
If in front of his teammates you accused your captain and a player who never ever gave anything less than 100% when playing for you of feigning injury when you knew he'd never done so.... what response would you expect from that player ? if his response was to call you a liar , would you (a) come clean and acknowlege that you had indeed lied or (B) feign hurt, go to the media and whinge and also demand an apology from that player and banish him from playing for you if the player didn't apologise.
Forthly.... having chosen option (B) on mature reflection would you agree that you exhibted poor management by confronting your player in front of his teammates instead of having a one to one conversation with him amd ensuring that you didn't banish him but maintained a working relationship with him to ensure that your team could compete to its maximum potential or would you still insist that you made the right decision in confronting him in an agressive manner by falsely and knowingly accusing him of 'cheating' in front of his peers to satisfy your own immaturity and inner self doubts....
:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
Are you serious here???? Are you honestly saying he never missed Ireland games through injuries which seemed to clear up in time for him to play for Man u the following week? Think back now.....
Hey I agree that Mc Carthy was wrong once it got as far as the meeting. But I think it would be much more interesting to hear Keanes opinions on how to deal with a professional dedicated great player who set high standards that sometimes came across as criticising the manager in public. That is the point I was trying to get across. The two questions I have asked are neither pro or anti Roy Keane or pro or anti Mick Mc Carthy as I think both were at fault for various aspects of it. Just wondering basically how would Roy Keane deal with a smilar player to himself or would that be possible.
Q: Was sneaking off at dawn after the home Iran game without wishing the rest of the team luck or offering words of advice or encouragement behaviour fitting of a team captain?
You could go on and on. On the feigning injury issue, I reckon it was in response to RK's tirade in the first place, not a slowly calculated insult. You know the way, someone insults you, you can't think of a quick retort so you just say something hurtful.
And if there's anyone here who has never suspected MUFC players of missing internationals because of spurious injuries they're naive. How many friendlies has Giggs played for Wales?
There is a difference to be fair, in feigning injury and missing an Ireland game on the Wednesday and playing for the club on the Saturday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Did you accuse Aiden Mc Geady and Damien Duff of feigning injury recently when they missed the Italy but both played on the Saturday for their clubs. Steve Finnan did the same recently and Steven Gerrard did it also for England in the recent past.
That's fair enough, point is that it happened regulalry with Roy so for the OP to state that MM knew that RK had never feigned injury is laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
You'd swear he was a saint and turned up for everything the way some would have histroy re-written, we won't even get into him not bothering to turn up at the airport or notify anyone that he wasn't coming on a trip where he was captaining the side for example.
is this theoretical question? if not, how do you know this is how it happened?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
I think the accusation against Keane for feigning injury for the Iran game is harsh and over the top and I think Stuttgart is right that probably Mick Mc Carthy said it in the heat of the argument, he probably regretted saying it but would not back down on just one point.
Did Keane take liberties with Mc Carthy as the manager, yes he did, was McCarthy right to allow this, it is hard to know.
That is why I think the questions I would ask Keane are along the lines of how would he deal with a player similar to himself, basically a great player and leader on the pitch with some questionable behaviour off the pitch but with a proven ablility to lead teams to victory.
As I said both Mc Carthy and Keane were wrong in Saipan but I think the interest for me in this woudl be how would Keane deal with a smilar player and character to himself. I suppose his comments in relation to Stephen Ireland offer us some sort of insight but how it would pan out in practice is another thing.
Yeah Ipswich are playing Sunday so he probably does not want to fly in on Wed and then fly back in again on the Friday and fly out Friday night after the show etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
I do see a slight resemblance with Robert deNiro playing Satan in Angel Heart:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs
http://epltalk-e7.simplecdn.net/uplo.../roy-keane.jpg
http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/u...ngelheart1.jpg
If what Keane says about that meeting in true then I back Keane and I can't remember reading anyone contradict what he said.
He said he had his temper fully in control as McCarthy ranted about his article and he was letting McCarthy have his say and would pull him aside on his own later on. He said when McCarthy accused him of faking injury he just lost the plot.
Paul McGrath said it was like waving the red flag to a bull.
If Roy didn't start shouting abuse until McCarthy made that accusation then as I said I'd be fully backing Keane. Getting wrongly accused of something makes the blood boil to my head in an instant. :)
/I was genuinely accused earlier today by a family member of gambling my wages this month. I bet €30 and a huge dental bill has me screwed. My reaction wasn't nice.
Is being accused of feigning an injury worse than been accused of running an unprofessional side and no preparing properly for a World Cup and this being done in the full glare of the media. I think both of them had every right to feel hurt in this and as I said both were wrong in many areas of it.
Fair point and I actually can't remember much of this at all. But it all depends on whether McCarthy thought what Keane said was untrue. Is that article actually still floating about?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Paul McGrath wasn't there though was he?Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
And given that the likes of Brian Kerr have said that an awful lot of what was put out by the RK media machine about Saipan was untrue so who's to say that Roy's own account of the row hasn't been somewhat embelished.
Have you forgotten that RK walked out 2 days before and had to be talked around? So to me it's obvious he wasn't in his 'happy place' (not sure whether his happy place is throwing darts at a picture of Alfie Halaand for having the temerity to injure Roy by being kicked in the air by him or if it's out walking Triggs?) long before the meeting.
From what others that were in the room have said it was obvious that RK didn't want to be there period, from all accounts he was behaving like a royal pain in the arse the whole time.
McCarthy's biggest mistake was bring RK on what was an R & R stopover, he'd have been better off letting him join them at their top of the range training facility in Japan. Personally I don't think the incident would have happened had RK not seen Arsenal do the double (winning the league at Old Trafford) and hadn't seen his efforts in the CL semi come to nothing against what he considered a far inferior side in Leverkussen. He wasn't a happy man....
On the Halaand issue I can see where he is coming from, having a similar thing happen to me and people saying there is not much wrong with you.
Obviously what he did after that was terrible and I would not condone it
Have you had a similar thing if you're playing and someone goes through the back of you with a deliberate kick and you give them some verbals back seeing as they've just kicked you? Is it reasonable to think that if the other player is down after he's comitted what was a red card offence against you that he might be staying down to make things more difficult for the ref?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
I'd have no problem with saying something along the lines of 'What the fukk are you staying down for, you kicked me you c##t!' in that situation in the heat of the moment. Hardly pre-meditated and no one knew how bad that injury was at the time.
Anyway, time to log off, off to Dalyer for now!
Ironically I believe the reason Roy assaulted Haaland was the shouting while Roy was on the ground injured, obviously accusing him of faking it... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Agree with both parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
In Keane's defence I think he had his demons and we've got to make allowances for that.
The great irony of course is that Ireland's Japanese base was supposed to be one of the best set-ups in the whole tournament. According to the FAI anyway :)
How about, the reason to inflict the reckless, pre meditated assault, was Roy's basic lack of common sense, an inability to get over it and grow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
I wonder why the fake slur was such a sensitive one? Obviously the whole world knew he wasn't faking it.
Me thinks, he protests too much about these "fake" accusations.
Believe Roy Keane due to appear on Late Late tonight.
As I said it's the one thing that gets me going. Being accused of doing something I didn't. I'd certainly have a hatred for Haaland if I was Keane after the shouting he gave him while he was decked out. I wouldn't go out and try to injur him but I would've got my own back throughout the game on the sly. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Maybe you hadn't done it that time.......... but?
Didn't he say to Haaland "Tell your mate Woodgate there's one of them for him too"?
Woodgate's crime? Keane tried to tackle him, missed and tore his knee ligaments in the process.
And don't tell me Keane never shouted at an injured player to get up.
Funny thing is that after he retired Keane admitted that the tunnel-visioned-winning-is- everthing image was just an act, one he needed people to believe.
And he also said McCarthy was top class in their meeting pre-Wolves v Sunderland.
Weird character, strangely compelling. Probably a nice guy to the few close to him, and probably a superb family man. It's a pity the biggest stories in Irish football are about the guys who didn't play. There's enough good things going on that people could look at.
I think Keane is very conscious of creating an image.
If someone watched his guide dog interview with no previous experience with the man, you'd say he was a charming, nice guy.
The media machine would have you believe that this was one of the toughest men alive, and this is largely because of Roy fueling this image himself.
I love football, I love playing football, but when I hear the talk about "hard men," and people shouting "it's a man's game" I have to laugh.
Obviously there are moments in a match that require genuine courage- going up for a header against a goalkeeper who is trying to punch a ball; maintaining your focus while dribbling as you know someone is trying to lunge at you with a sliding tackle; going up for a header against a guy who's been swinging elbows throughout the match, etc.
But the point I'm trying to make is that football for the most part is not violent nor what I would call typically masculine.
The media would make you think Roy was the toughest guy in the world, but I'd pick one of the Irish rugby guys of a similar height/weight to beat Roy in a fight any day.
I dont remember hearing that Keane said that to Haaland, and his beef was with Haaland for accusing him of faking injury when he was down with a career-threatening one, I dont recall him having a problem with the actual incident that led to the injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Saw the interview on the late late tonight(man I hate that Kenny) and have to say it didn't disappoint. Roy as usual was spot on with most of what he had to say.
No bull about the guy and very believable. Not everyone's cup of tea, sure, but I believe they're the ones without the spines. I think he's a class act.
Does anyone have a link to the Roy Keane interview from earlier tonight? Cheers.
Er...Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis The Red
You'd want to be his friend, but would hate to be his enemy.
For me a class act is someone that everybody wants to be friends with, but if he was your enemy you wouldn't fear for your life because he's a goddamn sociopath.
To add to my last post- there's nothing manly about the challenge he made on Haaland.
Cowardice personified- his jumping ship from Sunderland during their time of need in a selfish career saving move only adds to his growing reputation as a bottler.
Hey, I never condoned his challenge on Haaland but it seems you took it worse than he did. I was referring to the interview and thought he spoke a lot of sense as he has done throughout his career. Some people are obviously too shy to hear the truth sometimes and when it comes it's dismissed becaused it came from a thug like Keane.:rolleyes: Give me a break.
There should be more guys like Roy in the game, it wouldn't be as bland and as boring as you like it to be.
Spot on Stuttgart. Missed the interview as I was out with Saint Tom and Paul but will watch it later. I think you have hit the nail on the head with most of what you have said. Lads here is an insight. When you have gone down with a serious injury and somebody saying there is nothing wrong with you, it is hard to hold back the feelings. It is very raw and I can certainly see where Keane is coming from havin been in a simillar place. Funnily enough Brian Clough was in a very similar place also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
It was not Woodgate it was Wetheral Stutts, but that is neither here nor there.
There's nothing bland about Shay Given, Robbie Keane, and Richard Dunne.Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis The Red
They wear the green with pride, and bring the right kind of personality to the game.
I'm not saying I hate Roy Keane as a person, and I appreciate his achievements as a player- but I would object strongly to calling him a class act.
I call people classy or a class act because of their actions in the real world, and not because of their conduct on a late night talk show.
Anybody can be polite in that situation- however, it takes a man to maintain that kind of dignity when the going gets tough, and as we've seen with Roy time and time again, he lacks that calibre, and therefore is in no way a class act.
For the record, I don't wish failure on anybody, and I hope he does well with Ipswich and helps the Irish players develop there by proxy.