Agree with all of the above especially the bit in bold. Way to risky from Trapp and think he will be caught out eventually. However 3 points is 3 points.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
thought Mageady justified his selection ahead of hunt tonite on the basis that Hunts workrate was used as the main argument for his inclusion.
Macshane v poor.
Again thought the RTE panel were ott in their criticism.
Gibson looked well out of his depth. Centre mid is a big problem if Stephen Reid is injured, I'd have himself and Carsley as my first choice, Whelan's not getting enough football and it showed last night. Mate of mine was late so had to wait to give him his ticket, was walking up the steps to the stand when the goal went on, missed it by 10 seconds!
Dunne was immense, impressed with Duff and Doyle, thought McGeady had his best game in green although he should have buried that chance. O'Shea had a couple of dodgy moments but was solid enough as did McShane who wasn't solid , Kilbane solid enough, Robbie put in a good shift. Given solid again, happy with the 3 points, plenty of
room for improvement though. Andy Reid deserves a run against Poland if Trap doesn't trust him enough to play in a qualifier. Believe Dunphy was in full on rant mode....!
Lovely few pints after, great bit of craic in the pub, there's definitely a feel good factor growing. I can remember Charlton's team scraping results with iffy performances (2-1 at home to Luxembourg for example) and they were all forgotten once we qualified, hopefully this is the same. Other results are going our way, sometimes being a lucky manager is as important as being a good one. Typical Italian style, early lead and then don't make changes and see it out....
there wasnt a selection issue of hunt over mcgeady. hunt isnt anywhere near the quality of mcgeady. he was class last night and unlucky didnt score.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
I wouldnt say he was class by any stretch of the imagination. But he did enough to keep his place. also think he got a bad ball from Whelan which he made the most of for that shot on goal.
I wont be getting over it, or moving on. I would like to see some semblance of a passing game introduced into this new solid set-up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's Son
Currently we are kicking the ball up to Doyle (or out of play if you are McShane or Kilbane) or our wingers are picking up the ball and trying to all our attacking on our own due to lack of support from the centre.
Football-wise, apart from our wingers play, this was atrocious football from us. Dunphy was right in a way saying Staunton would have been lambasted for this display. It's so unfortunate that the new driving force of the team going forward is so injury prone. Here's hoping for an injury free run for S.Reid.
I can understand Trapattonis reasoning for not playing Andy, but I hope he at least shows signs that he will give him a try when we play Poland.
Our biggest problem was players who have no confidence on the ball - due to mainly a complete lack of technique and touch.
Along with their terrible defensive displays, our full-backs, when they did get the ball more often than not put it over the touchline or gave it straight back to Cyprus. Absolutely woeful from both of them. McShane will have to do a lot at club-level to deserve a start again, and surely it’s time to stop the nonsense extension of Kilbanes international career.
The same can be said of Gibson and Whelan. 90% of their passes completed were short and back to a defender. They do look out of their depth as they barely touched the ball in the first half, and were not much better in the second.
I’d give O’Shea a 6 at best as his clearances and positioning were not as good as the last two matches. However, for once I will defend him, and say that he may have been affected by the headless chicken at right-back beside him, who seemed intent on coming inside to hang out with him when he should have been getting tight on Okkas or Garpozis.
The positives are enough to balance it out overall though, with the 1-0 win acceptable at this early stage. Excellent attacking performances but we will struggle against better teams if we keep getting our wingers to make their own space rather than creating it with the support of an attacking midfielder.
Also Kevin Doyle really is a legend, but lots of work needs to be done on how Keane plays with him. He keeps running into the same space and never picks up on Doyles frequent knockdowns.
the thing is under staunton we wud prob have drawn the game or worse. we ground out the 1-0 win, wasnt pretty but its 3 points. next up 3 more points against georgia. oh and the polski's in nov.
Agreed. I was sitting low down in the middle of the Hogan stand. Full backs were losing their men or having the ball pinged over their head and scurring back. I thought Kilbane had one of his poorer games.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I have said it on numerous occasions, Whelan will not alas make the grade having seen him for a few years at Wednesday. But Trapp likes him and he fits in to his plans.
Not sure why some people gave Doyle 8 or 9 ratings. He worked hard but never really looked like scoring. Robbie pretty much disappeared in the 2nd half (as did the team for the first 20 minutes of that half). I think he was tired after the amount of chasing he had to do.
Cyprus are no mugs. In fact there are no mugs in our group and every game so far has been close for all teams. So let's be grateful for the 3 points in a reasonable performance - on another day it might have been 1-1 with that last minute scramble. Such is the fine line between success and failure.
I'm happy with the three points in the context of Bulgaria's result. In the first half I thought we were very good but the second half we definitely could have done with more control from the central midfield particularly (but that extends to the whole team).
There are a number of things to work on but we have a friendly next, so things are good in that respect. We really need to improve our attacking set pieces and get our players to attack the ball in the box more. It's the same with crosses. There were plenty of times when crosses went into the box and there was either nobody in a good position or they just didn't attempt to get onto the ball.
I'm surprised by people giving McGeady such a high rating. I generally like him but last night I thought he was our worst player by a mile. He kept on losing the ball by not releasing it quickly enough. He beat his man numerous times and instead of passing it/whipping in a cross, he turned around and tried to beat the man again by which time he'd be surrounded. He needs to improve in that respect. Last night I thought he was a liability.
I'm very happy overall by how things have been shaping up under Trap, but the lack of substitutions surprises me. I thought numerous players were either tiring in the second half or were playing poorly and we could have done with some renewed energy to rejuvenate us.
All in all though, I'm very happy and had I been told that we'd be three points behind Italy with a game in hand after 3 games, and more particularly 4 points ahead of Bulgaria at this stage I would have bitten your hand off for it. That's the most important thing.
was i watching a different game? i thought mcgeady was tired and underhitting his crosses for the last half hour. he also continually chose the wrong option. his crossing was poor, and he kept running into the full back. late on in the game, there was a long ball forward which keane ended up in possession of and attempted to pass back to mcgeady, intending him to run onto it into the corner, but mcgeady was running towards the middle of the pitch! with two minutes left! what was obviously called for and what duffer did a couple of times was playing the ball into the corner and wasting time. robbie keane knew it, duffer knew it, but mcgeady didn't.
now i thought he had a good first half, but frankly he should have scored (had two good chances) and should have showed a little more football brain when his legs were tired (which they painfully obviously were) which he didn't. 8 for the first half, 5 for the second.
Pretty uneventfull game really, I never really worried about conceeding, they just didnt look like they were going to score... even with McShane.
The 2 lads in the middle were un creative but solid enough, it seems they went out with the no-nosense and no sloppy mistakes approach and to be fair the Cypriots didnt break through the middle even though they had a lot of the ball there.
I was pretty frustrated at the lack of substitutions. I would have liked to bring Reid and a quick forward on for Keane and Doyle, put Reid in the Tevez style role and try put their defence on the backfoot with a few nice through balls for the front man to run onto for the last 15 mins or so, I thought their defence was all over the shop in the last 20.
Doyle and Dunne were excellent, its the true mark of a good forward to make yourself a threat in a game where your teams not creating much. Doyle looks like he's pushing for a big club in January.
McGeady has the talent but his decision making is terrible, beat the man and whip the ball into the danger area and that's his job done, its up to the strikers to get on the end of it.... if he went out with that mentality he would be a nightmare to defend against. Last night he just slowed the momentum and either lost the ball or put in a poor late cross, his work rate was good though.
McShane has 2 bad feet, no matter which one the ball comes to it looks like its on his bad one..... no composure whatsoever.
I thought it was a poor performance....cyprus were missing three or four of their better players.
However, its a great start....as somebody pointed out above we at 1 point from 3 games when that other clown was managing us, we now have 7 from three.
In fairness, I think very few sides perform very well in qualifying tournaments.Last night was pretty poor, but I think under Trap that we will raide our game to whats necessary aginst the stronger opposition.Its all about doing enough to get there. The real performances come at the finals.
Whereas if you look back to the Clown's regime, the performances were not poor....they were farcical.
On another oint, what bugs me is the way a lot of media and Irish fans think that one/two good performances from a player means he is good enough.
eg Whelan - played very well in the opening two games(against very poor opposition) and everybody sdaying that he was the answer.I rem the same thing with Mcshane against Czech Rep. He was blown all out of proportion..(even though he was at fault for Kollers goal). Mcshane should not play again no matter how stuck we are. I would play around positionally with others to avoid having that calamity anywhere near our back four
I have just read all the whole thread and what I can only say to sum it all up is
WIN , DRAW , WIN .= 7 POINTS :):):)
While I agree with you on the fan/media reaction to McShane following the Czech match, I disagree with your view on Whelan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
I remember reading many posts here that were still a bit disgruntled with his selection in those two games.
While he received "man of the match" honours in both games (I believe?), I think the majority of us here had a feeling of what I would call "cautious optimism."
Even going into these games, a lot of people expressed concerns about his lack of first-team football, and the fact that he wouldn't be paired with Stephen Reid this time around.
Basically I disagree with your view that Whelan was ever blown up to be anything bigger than he was by more than a minority of the media/fans.
Most of us thought he was a serviceable player who could carry out a simple role alongside the more impressive Stephen Reid, but I didn't get the sense that anybody was expecting him to become a key player for us.
First half was entertaining enough. Second half saw a poor Cyprus team pretty much dominate an Irish side with no midfield. Only shocking finishing from Cyprus saved trap from his first embarrassment (and drawing at home to Cyprus still should be an embarrassment).
Whelan is a poor sub championship player. Gibson may not even be that good. How McShane earns a living from football I'll never know. As ever Doyle's phenomenal work rate and Dunne's ferocious leadership helped drag Ireland through. Nice move for the goal too. If Duff could finish, he'd be unstoppable
Tets can you be my official spokesman please! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I thought there was a lot of vision when we were on the counter-attack too.
One grumble though: the crowd. There was a stage in the second half when the team had calmed things and initiated the "keep-ball" phase that has been obvious (to me anyway) in the previous two games, yet as soon as the ball went back inside the crowd were baying for it to get hoofed up front.
There are a lot of idiots going to Ireland games.
Tets has to go pro :D
Yeah, that's a good point actually. The crowd was better last night but as usual there were too many people who couldn't be bothered to open their mouths. When we were struggling to retain possession the players really could have done with the crowd generating some atmosphere to lift their spirits but the crowd wouldn't do so until there was a good period of possession or an attack. It's a vicious circle. I guess I'm a bit peeved because it's particularly bad in the section that I'm in. For some reason the people around me are completely different each game yet I'm always in the same seat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
To be honest I would have been one of those grumbling but it was more to do with the fact that we were showing Cyprus far too much respect. Perhaps given the 2 results in the last campaign the players have built them up to be a bogey team. Cyprus were there to got at, as seen pretty much any time we attacked. We're at home here and should be pushing for at least that second goal to allow us a little room to breathe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Doyle was immense as was Dunne at the back. Once again Robbie did little, aside from the goal, but it's worrying that him and Doyle don't seem to be developing any understanding. Still, the group table makes for nice reading this morning.
this amazes me. did little aside from the goal, eh the only goal of the game by the way. FFS what about his 34 other goals dwn the years and his tireless running in every game. if robbie gets injured in the big games then we are in trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Docboy
The only time I would grumble was with the breakdown passback to Given and then the hoof upfield. We are still novices at the knocking it about game.
Soon I'd hope that Given can find his full back with a pass and then Midfield appear to receive.
Poor game overall but at least we won it.
McShane can't play full back and we need someone in midfield who can hold onto the ball. Duff and Doyle were great but I wish McGeady would get a cross in after making good runs.
San Marino?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoss
I don't get why so many people are saying Doyle had a great game and Robbie was poor. Sure, Doyle was the better player on the night, but not by much. Robbie scored the winner too. They both worked incredibly hard; Doyle was constantly chasing balls but Robbie was getting back and helping out the defence a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Docboy
Yeah I thought Doyle was man of the match with Dunne just behind him. Robbie played well. Mc Shane was the only one who had a very poor game. GIbson and Whelan, were carrying out orders but did not impose themselves on the game at all so basically we were playing without a midfield in a constructive sense, as they were both there to destroy and did that ok.
Duffer was great.
Crowd was not great again. It was one of my quietest games for standing up due to injury but I still tried but the atmosphere is still very poor.
Its probably down to the fact not enough people knowing how you are supposed to behave at a football ground.
i have found this for years. i didn't make it myself last night but in general i have found supporters at ireland (home) games to be less well educated in football terms than almost any grounds i go to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Lads all is going well , 6 games un beaten now (also the games against the clubs in Portugal and Notts) its all about getting a few results which we are now doing.
The 3 steves will be back for the next match and if we win that ( which I think we would) we are in the driving seat ! Gibson will improve and Whelan will need S Reid with till he develops a bit more...
On what basis are you sure that they will all be back. They could get injured or anything could happen.
hopefully between now and the georgia game whealan either starts more games for stoke or gets out of there. read in the papers last week that he said if he didnt soon get a look in he might look elsewhere. id say he'd get a game every week with most champs teams. better than sitting on the bench in the prem. key is to hope steven reid stays fit.
Got the three points.
IMO, the best thing a team can do is play poorly and win. Don't think Gibson is up to much at the moment. Whelan wasn't too bad. The main problem last night was that the players were very quick to get the ball out to Duff and McGeady. It didn't always come off. Both those players did well though, Duff especially. I think Robbie had a better game than people are giving him credit for. Defence still looks a bit shaky. McShane needs to be replaced. How he gets his game (for Hull or Ireland) is beyond me.
i thought kilbane was a bit dodgy with possesion at times last night aswell.
Was that Keanes first goal at Croke Park. ?
If injuries arent a problem then switch
Finnan for McShane,
S. Reid for Gibson,
J. O'Brien or A. Reid for Whelan (depending on the opposition).
That would be a very decent team.
Agree with the first two suggestions, but Whelan doesn't really deserve to be dropped unless Joey O'Brien really proves to us in a friendly that he can play at this level in central midfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by redobit
I'd be frightened of playing him in there after the Cyprus debacle.
I realize he's been doing well for Bolton in a 4-3-3/4-5-1, but I'm not convinced he is miles better than Whelan, and not sure he would work in our system.
qill take 1-0 victory and three points. Bulgaria drawing their third team really gives Ireland the chnace to at least get second place in the group
really worried about centre mid field though. Whelan was worse than Gibson. Yard off the pace was Whelan. Ireland as a team not enough ball retention.
They missed Finnan and S Reid. A Reid should be in team but will not be. Trap should be making subs too in the games. He is very very cautious, a bit too much I think
Taught McGeady was OK but why cannot he do things a little faster instead of taking 3,4 or 5 touches which gives the defenders the chance to get goalside in centre of defence then make clearances easier. McGeady looks to have low confidence too. I think he is over rated by a lot of people but he is improving...
Three points against Georgia and we are on 10 after 4 games. Its been years since we have had that many points after 4 games
I generally dont feel the need to post as its generally already been said, but waht were ye weirdos doing up till 4 in the morning writing essays?! :D
I will say this though, I thought Whelan was dangerous in possession, dangerous in the fact he could give the ball away if he didn't pass it backwards 6 yards. Gibson when he had hte ball sprayed it nicely, granted this was limited to about 5 passess. There is no excuse for sitting so deep outside your 18 yard line that you let wave after wave of attack and dont show for the ball from wingers. This happened continuously last night where duff and mcgeady were running down blind alleys becuase there was no support form midfield, in mainz i noticed how much off the ball running reid does to support both backs and wingers. Gibson has a football brain at least, whelan doesn't seem to have a brian or much else either. The simple fact of attacking is the best form of defense is true, if gibson was played further up then all the clearances (headers, blasting hte ball into the air forward from kilbane and oshea etc) then he may have picked up on some of these and held the ball up and sprayed it out to the wings. We didn't do this and therefore we invited cyprus to come onto us, we did defend well, but we also were lucky because we defended so deep that in other times(times as in managers/eras/games etc) we would have conceded(so maybe that in itself shows luck is on our side).
On mcgeady, lads he overran it so many times agani, where he took one touch too much, because playing in the SPL he gets the chance to do this and retains the ball, but in international football you cant get away with this. His end product is very poor too, his crossing is poor, he did show for the ball though and his pass to duff for the goal was great. The one thing I will say for him is that he is getting better with every game, and all that should be required is Trap to say to him when exactly he needs to release and where he neeeds to be putting his crosses in, then practice it in training sessions. I think he can get better, and hopefully stronger.
We proved last night that we have 4 very good attacking players, we also proved that we have a solid CB pairing. We were also shown how a right back is not meant to play, McShanes positioning is terrible(its already been mentioned though so not going to repeat whats been said), and his tackling was poor yesterday, but lads the balls kept going over Kilbanes head too, reminds me of harte when he used to keep getting caught out as he was coming too far infield and not quick enough to get back out to the full back area. Both our full backs were poor yesterday. I think with finnan back and stephen reid back we are two players short of a seriouslly strong team, a team that could compete with anyone else. If we can find those 2 by the end of the campaign and we are on our way to SA then we could do very well out there.
Oh and bringing on Hunt would have been even worse, mcgeady and duff made breaks and held the ball up well, even created chances on teh counter attack, Hunt would have been dangerous as well except dangerous for cyprus rather than us, giving hte ball back.
The space in the midfield is worrying though, Trap wants us playing so deep that we dont have anyone cutting out that space.
''but lads the balls kept going over Kilbanes head too, reminds me of harte when he used to keep getting caught out as he was coming too far infield and not quick enough to get back out to the full back area. Both our full backs were poor yesterday. ''
Exactly what I was thinking Paul. It was real head in hands stuff at times from both fullbacks. McShane should not get another chance as from where i sat behind him in the first half in the Davin Stand he really did look like he was not a professional footballer. Kilbane has also always been a liability in possession with possibly the worst first touch I've ever seen in the top flight and really needs to be given his well deserved testimonial and retired.
People need to realise that football is a results business. It is a good sign that we are grinding out results without actually playing particularly well.
We are certainly a lot more robust and determined in our approach to defending and closing down the opposition. Every team is built on a solid defence and we have only conceded 1 goal in 3 games. We carved Cyprus open on a number of occasions and with a bit more composure we could have been 3 nil up.
At this moment in time we are a team in transition .i.e. we are adapting to a new tactics and system, this takes time. I believe we are fortunate to play the so called weaker opposition first to enable us to fine tune our game for the more difficult games against Italy and Bulgaria.
I think Gibson and Whelan do not deserve the flak they are receiving. These two are young players who need to gain experience and could become vital components of the team in years to come. By giving these young players experience we are increasing the depth of our squad.
I think it is unfortunate that neither Gibson nor Whelan could play with a more experienced midfielder such as S Reid or Carsley. Most promising young players require some guidance.
I also believe that if it was not such a tight game, Trap would have brought on Andy Reid. If we were 2-0 up I’m sure Andy would have been brought on. He also has the chance to stake a claim during the Poland friendly.
Yeah I think Reid will play against Poland.
too right, I'll whore myself out for anything!Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
yeah, it was. they mentioned that in the report on Sky Sports NewsQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Post match interviews and analysis on rte.ie: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/
1994/95 I reckon. 3 wins to start, draw at home to NI then beat Portugal. We finished with 1 win (Latvia H), a draw (Liechtenstein) and 3 defeats and lost out in a playoff.Quote:
Originally Posted by conlonn
Still a good start. We need to improve though.