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Ignoring the fact there was no wage cap when Kevin Doyle left, you honestly think he would've left solely because one was in place ? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Boh_So_Good
Or might it not have been the allure of a vastly larger pay package, playing football at a significantly higher and more professional level, and cementing a place for himself in the International squad...?
Nah - it's all the wage cap's fault.....
I think the point he was making is that if they introduce a wage cap then we will never in the future be in a position to offer an alternative to players like Doyle ie: consigning ourselves to the fact that we'll never at anytime in the future have a league structure to rival cross channel leagues instead of aspiring to catching up
Well we've been unable to sustainably grow the League in the past to rival cross channel leagues so whats the loss in trying to grow organically within defined rules rather than in frequent boom and bust cycles?Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
The financial naivety on display here is truly shocking. Or not, given the way most clubs are run.
The national league has never been in a position to offer an alternative to a player like Doyle, who are wanted at the top couple of levels in England.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
It's not like the wage cap is going to mean that clubs can no longer offer 20,000 quid a week like they used to.
And if I'm not mistaken, it is possible for this wage cap to be removed in the future, at a time when it is no longer beneficial/necessary.
I think allowing clubs to pay as much as they want (and sometimes more than they can afford) to players has done nothing to create a league structure to rival cross channel leagues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
However, the introduction of a wage cap will generate funds which can be used to improve the clubs in other ways - improving the ground, helping the youth team etc, in fact, doing things that might, in the long term, help to create a league structure to rival cross channel leagues.
Here's the scoop people. The highest level of Irish football will NEVER be able to compete with the highest level of English football. For a whole host of blindingly obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
Even if Cork had offered Doyle the same money as Reading, I'm convinced he would've gone anyway. Stephen Kenny went to Dunfermline for LESS money than City offered him, for example. It's not just the money - other leagues offer intangible positives to players and managers that we just can't compete with.
Trying to throw money at the problem as a misguided solution would therefore be total insanity.
The root causes of this is failure of the league and Clubs to a lesser extent to sell themselves to an Irish football mad public. better facilities, better product marketing,and winning hearts and minds is what is needed to improve this league Not a self-Hindering debilitating wage capQuote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
So where does the money to do all these thing come from then ?
Especially as any money a large number of clubs gets blown on paying staff to chase the dream, and never does anythign for marketing, facilities etc.
Very few clubs will take jam tomorrow over jam today, as that is the problem with football. The 'dream' is all consuming - particularly for the bigger clubs that face constant pressure/expectations re success. If they were capable of beign sensible and investing in all those things you mentioned yourself, then there wouldn't be a need to regulate. But time and again, clubs in Ireland (and indeed elsewhere) have shown themselves incapable of converting money into anything other than an improved playing squad.
As I posted on another forum, it is not just the Eircom or Carnegie Leagues, combined or separate, which cannot compete with the English Premiership.
The 72 English and Welsh clubs which make up the Football League cannot "compete", either.
However, that is no reason for them just to give up and go and try something else. Instead, they have learned sometimes harsh lessons from the Premiership and elsewhere about the need to administer their affairs and finances properly, to market their game professionally and to provide modern, acceptable stadia and facilities.
And whilst there are always some clubs who are struggling for survival within the set-up, overall, the League clubs are in better shape than they've been for a long time. Indeed, in terms of attendances, the Football League is now the fifth most successful in Europe (behind the English Premiership, La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga, but ahead of France's Ligue 1 and the rest).
Therefore, if domestic football in Ireland, both North and South, can sort itself out, there will always be a space for the "product" (hate that word), even in the 21st Century. Which, after all, is only what the FAI proposals re spending restrictions, or the all-Ireland League etc are all about. (Or should be!)
For starters from a proper sponsorship deal, one where the sponsors actually play an active roll in promoting the league which carries they're name. secondly the league/Fai need to start seriously pumping cash into marketing their product and thirdly the clubs do need to market themselves to their communities but I dont think say Bohs advertising their friday game on radio/tv would have the same impact as the entire league being advertised properly in the media. if setanta were to come on board official sponsors, show more games and advertise the way sky advertise the premiership (they do it for the setanta cup) you'd be surprised the difference it would make. Most people think the premiership is the be all and end all because its rammed down their throatsQuote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
All reasonable points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
Which are completely swept away when clubs don't keep control on their finances, and we end up with "Shels on verge of extinction" stories. It doesn't matter how much window dressing you do, if the foundation are built on sand, it is a waste of time.
Clubs have to take responsibility for their actions and a wage cap will not a panacea for all the ills, but it is a start.
Let's assume for the sake of arguement that that answers the marketing question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
How about facilities then ? Do you want other people to take responsibility for that as well ? :confused: How about all the otehr off-the-pitch things - establishing proper back-room set-ups, professional staff, youth academies etc. Where would the money for all of these sensible things come from ?
Sounds like you're happy for clubs to pump all their money into playing staff -and expect everyone else to take the lion's share of responsibility fro all the other activities a sport's club should be involved in. If not - then how do you suggest clubs are weaned off 'chasing the dragon' of success, and indulge in some cold financial turkey instead ?
Ok fair point Steve. but it is painfully obvious to clubs now just what is at stake if they chase the dragon as you so eloquently put it that a wage cap is not necessary. the main thing that worries me is if the wage cap is in place then how can we keep players here instead of them going to scunthorpe or accrington stanley et al for more money. also it will keep small clubs small and do nothing to break the top clubs stranglehold on the league. people say that it will level the playing field when in fact all it will do is ensure the status quo big teams with more money have a higher wage potential and so attract the better players whilst the so called smaller clubs can't spend so cant attract players so stay crap and won't attract new fans thus not earning extra money and so forth in an ouroborous fashion
If small clubs spend more than 65% of their turnover on wages they won't even be small, they'll be bust, ask Ronan Seery. You don't seem to get that clubs spending over that level are not working on a sustainable spending structure that will let the club stand on its own two feet. Fiscally prudent clubs would try to spend even less than that on wages. I think Celtic operate under a 50% figure as per the last financial results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
Yes I realise that. but let's hypothetically say that Robbie Keane decided to come home from from england and sign for his local team (rovers Obviously) for whatever mad cap reason. but he want's 2,500 a week but rovers are only allowed 2,000 a week.Now Obviously a high profile signing like this would see rovers crowds swell exponentially there by boosting their turnover except they cant sign him cause they're not allowed to break the wage cap so he fcuks off the merthyr Tidfyl or wherever. I know its fantasy to think a such a high profile transfer would ever happen but I'm sure you see where Im coming from. I think a Wage cap will effect clubs like rovers(who have a huge dormant fan base that could be re-awakened) and Galway / Limerick who are from big cities with a large population and could generate a whole new fanbase from bandwagon jumpers in the wake of a surprise high profile signingQuote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
or in short Let the clubs decide how much they can SAFELY pay players based on projected returns, not hinder clubs in ever having the opportunity to make the one high profile signing that could transform a club
Can you go away and read how the wage cap works, other League it is in operation in etc before wasting everyone's time?
Err, simply do what any sport with a wage cap does and structure the payments in a back-end loaded fashion which allows you to remain within the cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
This isn't a maximum wage being implemented. In this situation, Rovers could cut €500 off their wage bill from somewhere else (release a mid-ranking player or a couple of reserves) to fund the extra part of Keane's wages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
My understanding is that a club may spend 65% of there turnover on wagesQuote:
Originally Posted by Maribor
the example i gave above was taking that into account ie the player was demanding a salary that would have pushed the club above the wage cap based of the previous years earning's, however signing him would have allowed the club generate vastly more money with said player in the team than they had the previous year there by improving said clubs position both on and off the park but instead because of the wage cap they missed the opportunity
Great so a wage cap is not only going to hinder clubs it's also going to lead to a lot more unemployed footballers if they can just be off loaded at the drop of a hat to allow for decent signingsQuote:
Originally Posted by Schumi
How exactly does it change footballer's rights in any way?Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor