The Steve Staunton Discussion thread

The FAI have left themselves in an awful position. All that sh*te about getting in a 'World Class' manager and we're left with someone with no experience whatsoever. The thing is we're in a worse position now than before - there was hardly a rush for the job last time around but who's going to want it now after that humiliation on Saturday?
Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with Stan. There'd be no point in sacking him with nobody lined up and the only way I can see him doing the honourable thing and resigning is if we get another hammering tomorrow night

Have you forgotten what this jersey really means?

Vincent Hogan
Unison.ie
Tuesday October 10th 2006


Or have you become so comfortable, cosseted and wealthy that you simplyjust don't care anymore?

YOU want to believe that the Disneyfication of footballers' lives doesn't pare away core honesty.

That, behind the obese bank account, there will always remain the essence of a fighter. That the simple purity of competition will never cease to matter, never begin to blur.

But, maybe, that's like wanting to believe in scratch-cards and in e-mails from Nigerian bankers.

How does a young man stay grounded while earning - in a week - more than the national average industrial yearly wage for being unexceptional?

What perspective can he have when his agent gets his groceries?

Some years ago, I interviewed an Irish footballer in London. He had been roughly seven years a full-time professional without ever playing regular, first-team football.

Yet, on the day we met, he had just taken possession of a brand new Porsche. With great delight, he detailed the wonders of his purchase, not for a second seeing paradox in the glow of wealth and the absence of achievement.

Fantasy

Maybe we presume too much with people. We are all part of the fantasy and the lie, you see, paying our Sky Sports standing orders, kitting our children out in shirts uncannily like their old ones, thinking nothing of the Far East hot-houses from where they come, of the sponsors' logos and what they represent, turning a blind eye to the culture of grab.

We are, endlessly, indifferent to the till in the corner.

If young professional footballers aren't the most rounded or accomplished of humans, we can't exactly go around nodding gravely, like it's someone else's crime.

Most players aren't bad people. They just exist in bad environments. They mix with their public only when hurrying from players' entrance to car where, once inside, the privacy glass comes in useful for facilitating a brisk getaway.

Playing for Ireland tended to cut through that nonsense.

Under successive managers like John Giles, Eoin Hand, and Jack Charlton, no-one was allowed play precious in a green tracksuit and, by and large, no-one ever tried.

Supporters and media mingled freely with team.

Some of the lobbies that Charlton's men had to famously wade through were busier than Wall Street trading floors. It wasn't entirely comfortable at times and it wasn't entirely practical.

But, always, there was this sense of union between the team and its people.

The feeling of something shared.

That's gone now.

It slipped away almost imperceptibly over the last decade or so, to be replaced by a green replica of the gated communities that most Premiership clubs have become.

The domain that Steve Staunton stepped into when making his international debut as a player back in 1988 would have been unrecognisable from the one he stepped into as Irish manager last January. Staunton may be no Dylan Thomas with words, but anyone who ever watched him play for his country could never doubt the pride of the man.

Could it be that he is now undermined by an assumption that that kind of pride is commonplace today?

There is, clearly, no reason to believe that he is a master strategist at this level. And he, certainly, doesn't carry Napoleon's luck, given the illness suffered by Bobby Robson.

But, as the zeal for a public lynching begins to heat up, is it not pertinent to ask a few home truths of his players?

Staunton is entitled to ask each and every one today what playing for Ireland actually means to them.

Footballers are polished at using expressions of remorse in times of crisis.

They are good at talking up their guilt without ever, necessarily, absorbing it. However unconvincing Staunton's preparation for last Saturday's game in Nicosia, however dubious his grasp of tactic or formation, when a team spills five to the likes of Cyprus, there's a lot more wrong than gameplan.

Burn at stake

We can burn Staunton at the stake this week if - as is eminently possible - the team falls heavily to the Czech Republic at Lansdowne Road tomorrow. But what then?

When Brian Kerr was jettisoned after the failure to qualify for Germany, it was done on the basis that he hadn't got the ear of the dressing-room. And he clearly hadn't. But are we running the risk of just re-heating lust for managerial blood, while the players, habitually, slip into a comfort zone?

They talk of "individual errors" in a strange, detached way, as if considering something abstract and unexplainable.

But when performance is retarded so consistently by indiscipline, it begs the question "WHY?"

Where does the difficulty arise in concentrating for 90 minutes when to do so is the most basic tenet of your day-to-day employment?

Football isn't complicated. It's about people and the chemistry with which they interact.

Most fundamentally, it is about honesty and moral courage.

You can't but wonder about the competitive hardness of players who earn more in a week that many white collar workers earn in year.

What exactly is their motivation in playing international football? Do they really want to be in Dublin this week?

What connection do they feel for the supporters, beyond the swift, trademark gesture at a final whistle?

In fact, what precisely does that gesture mean when they've just played like udder-heavy cattle?

No apology

This is no apology for Steve Staunton.

He may just happen to be a poor manager with a profoundly weak hand at his disposal. If so, the regime that put him in place should now be as vulnerable to condemnation as the manager himself.

But what of the players? Where is their outrage?

Last Saturday night, they should have been able to deal with what was put in front of them even had Mister Magoo filled in the team-sheet. Instead, their contribution was gauche and insubstantial. Again.

If the jersey means anything to them, perhaps tomorrow they might care to show it.

Thats a good article but surely its up to the manager and coaching staff to gte the players playing with pride and passion.

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Originally Posted by cheifo

Brave post Block G Raptor.I deard to think of the abuse Stan is going to get after Wed.No he cant to the job but lets not forget his passion and commitment as a player.I cant think for the life of me who will be a suitable choice to take over.John Toshack?:p

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There are good options outside of the EPL. Two good German coaches are available right now, Ottmar Hitzfeld (2 Champions Leagues with Dortmund and Bayern) and Christoph Daum (Bundesliga with Stuttgart).

Ottmar Hitzfeld (2 Champions Leagues with Dortmund and Bayern) and Christoph Daum (Bundesliga with Stuttgart).

keith this is fantasy football. who is practical and affordable ?. I said on a previous post we are not rich and have a ****y climate and are 4th ranked with players that are under performing

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Originally Posted by kingp35

Thats a good article but surely its up to the manager and coaching staff to gte the players playing with pride and passion.

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Its up to the manager to motivate the players to play in the manner/formation/tactic he sets out. Its up to the players to have the motivation and moral courage to perform to the best of their ability and win the personal battles on the pitch. Manager and players both failed miseribly.
Personally I think the players have as much if not more to answer for than Staunton. He has proved, without doubt over the years his passion and commitment to Ireland. He always gave 100% and never backed down from a challange. How many players in the current squad can you say that about.
We played Cyprus FFS those 11 players should have had the quality and professional knowhow to win the game with or without a managers input.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingp35

Thats a good article but surely its up to the manager and coaching staff to gte the players playing with pride and passion.

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Don't agree - that should be there already.

Papa-J

Hit the nail on the head.

If passion isnt there, I dont think anybody can instill it.

But I dont subscribe to the idea that players lose their passion simply because they get rich.

Anybody who starts playing and continues to play football, at whatever level, does so because they love the game.

And I believe that maintaining that passion is key to being able to reach the heights that professional footballers reach. Without passion, your career wont take off, or will fade away. (for example Nicolas Anelka).

I certainly agree that eircom league players (and those at lower levels) are as passionate about the game as players at the highest level, but it is wrong to think it doesnt work the other way too.

For every player who seems to have lost the passion for the game, I'm sure we can find one who has been passionate throughout a successful career.

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Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

...have you ever heard of anyone going from international management to a coaching role with a lower league team? no didn't think so. thats what stan needs to do but i cant see it

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Sammy McIlroy abandoned the NI ship after a truly appalling run, to manage a Stockport County team already on the slide. The slide continued and he was sacked. He was out of work for a period, before taking over temporarily at Morecambe FC in the Conference, when his old mate Jimmy Harvey suffered a heart attack. When Harvey recovered, he was not given the chance to resume his old job. McIroy took it permanently and Harvey has not spoken to him since.
On Saturday, Morecambe were beaten 4-0 by bottom of the Conference Crawley Town, in a defeat described by the Official Morecambe Website as "humiliating".

That said, there was some basis for appointing McIlroy to the NI job, considering his success in leading Macclesfield Town into the Football League and Sammy is still arguably a better manager than poor Stan will ever be.

(I've now seen the Cyprus goals, btw. Jaysus, I thought I'd seen some horror stories in 35 years of following NI...:eek: )

Passion is part of players' pysche but does not equate to everything. I have seen bad players play with passion and get turned over. And I have seen good players play without passion and get turned over. There is no black and white answer to this one, guys. Passion is not a constant thing. Having a passionate manager does not instil passion into players either.

Palmer hit the nail on the head with this:-

'There once was a fella called Stan, who claimed to have a four-year plan, but some trouble ensued and we came to conclude, he didn't know his bum from his hand'.

Full story here:-

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns...ro2008&cc=5739

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Originally Posted by osarusan

If passion isnt there, I dont think anybody can instill it.

But I dont subscribe to the idea that players lose their passion simply because they get rich.

Anybody who starts playing and continues to play football, at whatever level, does so because they love the game.

And I believe that maintaining that passion is key to being able to reach the heights that professional footballers reach. Without passion, your career wont take off, or will fade away. (for example Nicolas Anelka).

I certainly agree that eircom league players (and those at lower levels) are as passionate about the game as players at the highest level, but it is wrong to think it doesnt work the other way too.

For every player who seems to have lost the passion for the game, I'm sure we can find one who has been passionate throughout a successful career.

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Well said. For every Stan Colleymore who loses his passion when the money rolls in, there is a Frank Lampard for whom the money only keeps rolling in because the passion is still there.

I actually think a lot of people are confusing "passion" with "conviction". When NI were playing so badly under McIlroy, there was still a reasonable degree of passion (effort) on display. However, what they lacked was conviction, or self-belief.
I'm sure that the NI players looked at McIlroy and said to themselves: "Nice guy, Sammy, and I want to play for him, but he's not up to it".
I guess that it's the same in the ROI camp with Stan.

In fact, thinking about it, it's the same at every level, probably in every sport.
When I used to play Sunday League Football many years ago, no-one was more passionate and committed than me. But when I used to look at the succession of no-hopers we had as managers, deep-down, I knew we had no chance of ever doing anything. (Oh, and I was a pretty mediocre player, as well...;) )

Just heard on newstalk that Delaney has refused to give his full backing to Staunton.

so the rats prepare to leave the ship..........................

Judging by the way Delaney got where he is now and what happened to Fran Rooney i'd agree with you. He's out to save his own skin and Stan is now the perfect patsy. I say keep Stan until he does so much damage that Delaney can't escape either. That's probably too much to ask though, after all, it's the bleedin FAI. They could re-write the book on gorey bloodletting and sell it all over the world - Feck All Interest.

So who is going to be the new manager? This should be very interesting

Delaney Is ****** And Should Resign Is Stan Goes

Hey Dallas. How is Ronnie O'Brien playing?

He has been brilliant. He is rated as the best right midfielder in the league by the MLS And ESPN. His fitness levels are at an all time high after suffering a hamstring injury in mid season. Dallas just finished top of there group and have homefield advantage in the playoffs and Ronnie is again at the top of the league in assists this season. He stated he would not play for Ireland under Kerr due to problems between the two but would say lookin at our current status he would have been a good option tomorrow! Not sure why he was not called up for friendlys considering some of the people that were! Will post recent article in Dallas mornin news on O briens performances this season!