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Posted about O'Shea on another thread but just saw this. Agree totally on the Miller score with regards to favouritism but i'm beginning to wonder if i watched a different game last night with O'Shea. I thought he was one of our best players in both positions he occupied.
In O'Sheas case I'd say his versatility actually helps him to make squads, given the variety of positions he can cover. Thats the same versatility that also hinders him though as he has no definitive 'position'.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyP
Failure as a left back, was worse in midfield last night, hadn't a clue what was going on.
Will get his game because Kerr won't consider any other options.
Im not sure about the Mourniho comment there. I think a lot of our players are confidence players and need lots of time and engergy, like clinton has been getting from kerr. I dont know if Mourniho does this kind of thing (if he does all fair & good) but kerr has taken the right approach with all the players.
As for Josh, I think he defintely has a lot of abilty, its just that mentally he doesnt seem very strong to date. I think he will come right in the end though, he will break through to the first team in Man U and he will be a solid player for us in midfield for ireland.
Miller on the other hand looks like he is going backwards
Only a failure if you're expecting him to live up to all the hype written about him in 2002/03.
If you take him for what he's worth, he's a good player well worth his place in the Ireland squad.
He is not a failure he just isn't as good as some media quaters think he is ! Some players just don't cope well with International football and he seems to be one of them :(
Its too early to say. He is still young and has a lot to learn , but you dont play central midfield for United if you are a bad player. I think he is far better in midfield than defence and a season alongside keane and co playing regular football and starting a few champions league outings could be the making of him.
Dont forget that Phil Neville was the one that Fergie let go and JOS is now playing that position so he cant be that bad !
I thought he had a good game last night and was very comfortable on the ball (which is his failing ironically at left back because of his reluctance to 'hoof it').
Didn't see last night match but my opinion is - he's not getting any worse :D
dont think that would be possible ...Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Couldn't agree more with what you say in the last paragraph. I tend to take a pessimistic approach to Irish games as some manner of a buffer against the abject disappointment when you've expected a win - it doesn't really work though. Israel away and more particularly at home were gut-wrenchingly painful. Like you say, the manner of performance and Kerr's seeming nonchalance about what are substandard performances has me very worried - to an exponential degree now that a stronger French side are coming in 3 weeks. I know it doesn't help for an international manager to criticise his players to the press, but Kerr appears nothing but cheerful and unworried about our repeated failures to finish off weaker opposition and now, in the Italy game, to mix it with bigger teams. Case in point is his refusal to dismiss out of hand the suggestion that he might use the 4-3-3/4-5-1 system of last night against the French. Did he not see our central defence getting cut open at will every time the Italians came at us in the first half? Did he not see the amount of space allowed to Italian danger players in midfield, the Irish markers either unsighted or backing off? I tread to think what Zidane, Vieira and Henry will do if we allow them anything like the mockery that was our porous performance in the key areas last night. I remain to be convinced about our seeming ability to produce a world-beater performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyP
You can't call him a failure when he is playing for Man U and has won trophies, plus being a full international. However, he is hugely over-rated and I can't understand how he is still at Utd, I guess it's a perfect example of how Fergie has lost it as a manager. Against Italy I thought he was average. He's a disaster at left-back. In midfield he did ok, but if he's serious about playing there he needs to start doing so for his club. One of the most brainless players when it comes to keeping possession and passing the ball, I'd rather see him on the bench to be honest. However, Kilbane was worse. As for Liam Miller..........why in gods name is he in the squads? Waste of space :rolleyes:
The thing is he's not that young anymore, he was 24 in April. Roy Keane was 22 about to turn 23 when he was our player of the tournament at the 94 World Cup, Robbie Keane broke our nations goal scoring record at 24. Using the age excuse for O'Shea and also Miller just doesn't cut it anymore, Miller is 24 also now. What we need is a manager like Cloughie who's not afraid to give players a good kick up the arse, which is what both of them need!Quote:
Originally Posted by wallis
What player in their right mind would take that from an international team manager?Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito
Duff Robbie Josh and Miller are all the same age. The first two have done alright, the last two have been far below expection. Miller has some serious work to do if he wants to rescue his career. He needs to drop to a smaller club and get first team football.
As for Josh, I blame Mc Carthy for wrecking his career. He missed out on a WC while Robbie and Duff played. I cant belive Mc Carthy never brought him, for that alone I was glad Mc Carthy got the sack.
As for the 4-3-3 formation Im delighted that Kerr tried it the other night, 4-4-2 is dead, its too static and if you dont have all your strikers your screwed. We a team with lots of wingers and usually a strong midfield. 4-3-3 is well suited to us, its just that the players have to get used to it.
Full marks to Kerr IMO. We should have won against Israel but I still think we will beat the French.
I cant see him going with anything but a 4-4-2 against the french. The 4-3-3 was probably a ruse to baffle their spies, as Stapleton so eloquently put it on tv later..Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
I agree. 4-4-2 is our strongest formation and its what kerr will probably play. At least we will have a bit of a surprise up our sleve when we face the french.
Its gonig to take a right few more goes at in in friendlies for ireland to master 4-3-3. Other formations do have their advantages though and 4-3-3 is really good if you have lots of possession and want to put teams away (AFAIK)
Is this a serious comment? O'Shea was nowhere near the squad for Japan. Unless I am mistaken at the time the WC squad was picked he had only played 6 minutes at international level (against Croatia, when he gave away a penalty!). He had only played a handful of games for United at that stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
How did McCarthy ruin his career? When Mick was in charge O'Shea club career was only starting.
I thought O'Shea played allright when he moved to the middle the other night. He's an O.K left full, i think he gets forward and support the wingers well. I'll reserve judgement on his career just yet.
But he was nowhere near the World Cup squad for '02..... What are we, Northern Ireland?? Capping every Man Utd reserve player.... He didn't deserve to even be considered for the squad despite with "His Corkness" said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
Ask Roy, O Shea should have been brought , he was in top form back then and would have solved our left back nightmare.
Playing at the world cup for players really makes them a lot better than their colleagues who havent. Their concentration has to be better, the play has to be better, everything. it improves them no end.
Look at duff who was captipulated to chelsea after the wc. josh has gone from mediocre to mediocre
Ask who?Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
On what basis do you claim that O'Shea was in 'top form'? In the whole of the 2001/2002 season leading up to the WC finals he played 9 league games and 3 CL games for MU. Hardly World Cup form!
There were plenty of opportunities for McCarthy to bring him into the team after we had qualified. We played four games in Dublin in 2002 before the WC against Russia, Denmark, USA and Nigeria and also Niall Quinn's testimonial at Sunderland.
Q. Why was he not selected for any of these games?
A. He was not good enough.
I would be interested to know who you think should have been dropped from the squad that went to Japan to make way for him?