The Kevin Nolan saga

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Hmm, maybe not...:o

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Here's a bit about him:
http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysing...sp?newsid=9579

I doubt he'll declare for us though.

According to this page - http://www.breakingnews.ie/2003/08/01/story108267.html - he was in the U-19 squad in 2003 to play Norway in 2 friendlies.
He didn't play in the first game, according to this match report - http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysing...sp?newsid=7046 - but I can't find a match report for the second game

Thanks. Part vindication so!

PS: is Colin Doyle on the bench for Birmingham these days? I thought he started the season as sub goalie.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

I don't care how applied he is on the field, Clinton Morrison never had the slightest thought of being Irish until he realised that England were never going to cap him.

And as a player that you clearly rate so highly it must have amazed you to see the Premiership turning a blind eye to his availability when Birmingham decided he was surplus to requirements. :)

So he works hard. Big deal. I've seen any amount of journeymen players at every level under the sun, it doesn't make them any good and it doesn't make them Irish either.

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Such a statement. suppose it didnt bother you when the policy of bringing in players like Aldridge, Mccarthy, Townsend, Cascarino, babb, mcateer, morris etc got us to the euro champs and world cup finals.

You cant just pick out one person like clinton morrision and criticise him. any player would rather play international football than not play it.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Here's a bit about him:
http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysing...sp?newsid=9579

I doubt he'll declare for us though.

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On the ball as always EB....

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Hmm, maybe not...:o

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Kilkenny is also in 4-4-2 this month saying he wants to play for England so I think we can forget about him.

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

You're entitled to your opinion on selection but for me it's what a player shows after he declares is the most important. The application of the like of MacAteer and Morrison should be the benchmark for commitment of international footbal players.

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I liked McAteer. Have quite a bit of contempt for the likes of Kelly and Carr too. But if you expect me to apologise for harbouring resentment towards players who declare for this country purely 100% to advance their career we're gonna fall out my friend. As far as I'm concerned Ireland means no more to Clinton Morrisson than Crystal Palace does (or indeed Birmingham City did). I think Morrison is over-rated by Irish fans anyway. He does a job for us and, as I've said in threads before, now that we have him I'm not suggesting that we cull him, but for me he's a mediocre footballer who's found his level in England's second tier and has delusions of grandeur above his station. And his application is all well and good now that he's tied to us but I've not forgotten his conveniant injury when first he was called up. I'm not suggesting that we pack him back from where we came at all but at the same time I think people should acknowledge that Clinton Morrison is a citizen of convenience. That's all. :D

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Originally Posted by garykelly

You cant just pick out one person like clinton morrision and criticise him. any player would rather play international football than not play it.

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I agree. In fact I'd love to play international football. However it looks unlikely that I'll ever reach that level with my country. However I haven't been desperately looking for American Samoan citizenship to bring that game to life. Nor would I. The whole idea of international football is about nations putting their best team together. Now maybe I'm some old before my time fogey who harks back to the days when international teams were full of players who actually considered themselves to be from the country they're representing but I can't help that. :) I take your point about the Houghton and Morris types from the golden era. The likes of Mick McCarthy and Phil Babb deserve better though, they were always aware of and took pride in their Irish roots. And of course I was a young, naive child back when all that occured and paid precious little attention to things like place of birth! :o

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Yeah If only we had more true paddies like Gary Kelly and Stephen Carr abandoning the cause while playing at the top level at an age when they should still be at thair peak playing power.

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Whatever about Stepher Carr but your reckless opinion on Kelly is way off the mark and its not as if it was a big secret nor such a long time ago. Kelly was 3rd choice, some years beyond his peak, injuries have taken a toll off him. Let his entire international career rest in peace. Too young for the 94WC past it for 2002WC

i seen the nolan rumors in the papers. Hopefuly Sven wont do the dirt and give him a full cap in the meantime. Kerr did make a few mistakes with him and S.Ireland.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

i seen the nolan rumors in the papers. Hopefuly Sven wont do the dirt and give him a full cap in the meantime. Kerr did make a few mistakes with him and S.Ireland.

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He's not going to get pushed over by a couple of teenagers. Neither would Ferguson, Mourinho, Benitez, etc. That jobs left to Sven.

He has played for England at U21 level and is now over 21 so he cannot declare for us under current FIFA rules.

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Originally Posted by colster

it really annoys me the way people go on about 2nd/3rd generation players. The fact is that they have a right to play for us. They also have the right to choose between those countries they are elligible for. The fact that Nolan has stated a preference for England is not surprising. He was brought up there. Of course his ties to England would be strong. But he still has the right to choose Ireland. And if he does so and is selected he should be judged on his ability and performance.

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i strongly disagree with you there, he does indeed have the right but the mans constantly expressed england as his first choice,and as dissappointed as i was when i first heard this some years back, i thought 'good luck to him' but the way he has touted his 'irishness' since then has sickened me and i wouldnt want him within an asses roar of international honours for my country,because thats what its meant to be....an honour, and all it would be to Nolan is a consolation prize.

i have absolutely no problems with people playing for us who wernt born in ireland as long as they feel irish,Nolan does not. i believe each of these cases should be judged individually. i know children who come into my local over here wearing irish tops to whom you have to go back to their grandparents to hear an irish accent,but i would consider those little ones as irish as myself. on the other hand i also know lads with one irish accented parent who will happily wear an england top,and if thats how they feel,then good luck to them.......but dont come running to us if england dont want you.

i would even like to see the fai take it a step further by issuing a statement saying once you have been made aware of irelands willingness to consider capping you, if you play for Any other country from then, you will never be considered for international honours with us.

make these guys pin their colours to the mast early and stop devaliung the honour of representing us.i actually believe we would be pleasantly surprised by the results we would have from a move like this as it would prevent their clubs from pressurising them to keep multiple options open by telling them they can always play for ireland later on.

i believe the clubs do this as a player will be worth more on the market having england honours and also the academies are a big drain on resources and having a guy representing england at underage level will carry more weight, rightly or wrongly.

anyway,i think the days of having Townsend performing minor miracles in our midfield while england had to be content with Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas, Andy Sinton and the likes, are long gone, they are wise to it now and will do whatever is necessary to string lads along as has been done with Zat Knight and now with Nolan.


thats my 2 cents on it anyway boys and girls

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

I liked McAteer. Have quite a bit of contempt for the likes of Kelly and Carr too. But if you expect me to apologise for harbouring resentment towards players who declare for this country purely 100% to advance their career we're gonna fall out my friend. As far as I'm concerned Ireland means no more to Clinton Morrisson than Crystal Palace does (or indeed Birmingham City did). I think Morrison is over-rated by Irish fans anyway. He does a job for us and, as I've said in threads before, now that we have him I'm not suggesting that we cull him, but for me he's a mediocre footballer who's found his level in England's second tier and has delusions of grandeur above his station. And his application is all well and good now that he's tied to us but I've not forgotten his conveniant injury when first he was called up. I'm not suggesting that we pack him back from where we came at all but at the same time I think people should acknowledge that Clinton Morrison is a citizen of convenience. That's all. :D



I agree. In fact I'd love to play international football. However it looks unlikely that I'll ever reach that level with my country. However I haven't been desperately looking for American Samoan citizenship to bring that game to life. Nor would I. The whole idea of international football is about nations putting their best team together. Now maybe I'm some old before my time fogey who harks back to the days when international teams were full of players who actually considered themselves to be from the country they're representing but I can't help that. :) I take your point about the Houghton and Morris types from the golden era. The likes of Mick McCarthy and Phil Babb deserve better though, they were always aware of and took pride in their Irish roots. And of course I was a young, naive child back when all that occured and paid precious little attention to things like place of birth! :o

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I agree with where your coming from on this. But unfortunately this is the route Ireland must take becuase we simply dont have the players to make up a squad so we'll have to root around for Irish linked players. I know when players openly say they want to play for say England and then end up playing for Ireland, it has a sort of diluting effect. I remember Ronnie Whelan saying Ireland should scour the planet for players of Irish heritage but this isnt the way to go. Unfortunately it could well be the case. Unless Irish football starts taking interest in actual and real development of players from the top down then this is the situation we're faced with.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

i strongly disagree with you there, he does indeed have the right but the mans constantly expressed england as his first choice,and as dissappointed as i was when i first heard this some years back, i thought 'good luck to him' but the way he has touted his 'irishness' since then has sickened me and i wouldnt want him within an asses roar of international honours for my country,because thats what its meant to be....an honour, and all it would be to Nolan is a consolation prize.

i have absolutely no problems with people playing for us who wernt born in ireland as long as they feel irish,Nolan does not. i believe each of these cases should be judged individually. i know children who come into my local over here wearing irish tops to whom you have to go back to their grandparents to hear an irish accent,but i would consider those little ones as irish as myself. on the other hand i also know lads with one irish accented parent who will happily wear an england top,and if thats how they feel,then good luck to them.......but dont come running to us if england dont want you.

i would even like to see the fai take it a step further by issuing a statement saying once you have been made aware of irelands willingness to consider capping you, if you play for Any other country from then, you will never be considered for international honours with us.

make these guys pin their colours to the mast early and stop devaliung the honour of representing us.i actually believe we would be pleasantly surprised by the results we would have from a move like this as it would prevent their clubs from pressurising them to keep multiple options open by telling them they can always play for ireland later on.

i believe the clubs do this as a player will be worth more on the market having england honours and also the academies are a big drain on resources and having a guy representing england at underage level will carry more weight, rightly or wrongly.

anyway,i think the days of having Townsend performing minor miracles in our midfield while england had to be content with Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas, Andy Sinton and the likes, are long gone, they are wise to it now and will do whatever is necessary to string lads along as has been done with Zat Knight and now with Nolan.


thats my 2 cents on it anyway boys and girls

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I still don't see the validity of the argument. It is possible to be both English and Irish, and as such he has a right to choose. We have no right to say that he can't. We've already had players who had stated a preference for another country but still performed to the top of their ability and with pride for us. Ray Houghton always stated that his preference was Scotland!!!

What is the point of international football if players can pick and choose who they want to play for. It used to be about representing your country but all that has long since gone out the window replaced by greedy footballers trying to add a few coffers to their transfer value. Enough of it I say, either abandon the granny rule or international football will slowly kill itself by constantly diluting its own worth!

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

What is the point of international football if players can pick and choose who they want to play for. It used to be about representing your country but all that has long since gone out the window replaced by greedy footballers trying to add a few coffers to their transfer value. Enough of it I say, either abandon the granny rule or international football will slowly kill itself by constantly diluting its own worth!

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Since when can they pick and choose? They can only choose between those nations they are eligible for.
It is possible to be both English and Irish. The granny rule is there for a reason. The world is increasingly a smaller place. People live and work in other countries. Does that mean that their children cannot claim to be Irish?
Nolan has stated a preference to play for England but if he declares for us then he should be judged on his ability and performances.

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Originally Posted by colster

Since when can they pick and choose? They can only choose between

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You seem to be contradicting yourself there before you even begin. Which is it, they can't choose or they can only choose?

As for you line about being both English and Irish:D

Nolan is an English man and will be judged as such for ever.

• Noland is English!
• He was born in England!
• He was reared in England!
• That makes him English!

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• That's his story!

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

You seem to be contradicting yourself there before you even begin. Which is it, they can't choose or they can only choose?

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Read the next sentence. I said they can only choose between countries they are eligible for!! It's not as if he can choose to play for Brazil, San Marino or any other country he does not have roots in.

Being born in England may make him English but not exclusively so. Part of his families origin is in ireland so that makes him part irish too.

Definition of nationality from dictionary.com
1. The status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization.

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Originally Posted by colster

Definition of nationality from dictionary.com
1. The status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization.

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Origin - Where you're from
Birth - Where you're born
Naturalization - Which ever country will have you!

Appears Mr. Nolan is going down the naturalization road so cause he don't qualify through origin or birth!

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

Origin - Where you're from
Birth - Where you're born
Naturalization - Which ever country will have you!

Appears Mr. Nolan is going down the naturalization road so cause he don't qualify through origin or birth!

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Origin doesn't neccessarily mean the actual place of birth. It also means your ancestory.
Birth, this can mean that which you inherit from your family e.g. nationality.