20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

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Originally Posted by Elfman

Thanks for this cobhlad, good to have them all in one place.

I enjoyed reading them, hoped for more detail but just the fact that info about the provincial leagues is becoming more widespread is a positive.

Side note - does anyone know the facility requirements for teams in the MSL or LSL? I assume the new National League will have the same requirements.

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for intemediate level, the LSL officially requires a privately owned, fenced off pitch, but it's not enforced. A number of sides play in astros owned by the local authority (including in the top division last season) , and in other cases the fencing is just a series of poles stuck in the ground with some rope running in between, which gets taken down at full time

separately, I heard that one of the more storied and successful amateur clubs, TEK United, have folded their intermediate team.

Thanks Burnsie, good to get clarification on that. And sorry to hear about TEK - always a sad day when a club has to fold a team.

What's your own thoughts on the National League - a step forward or another false dawn?

I've always been a fan of the idea in principle.

But I've seen first-hand over the many years the sheer parochialism and self-interest of the blazers who will ultimately have to promote (or at least acquiesce to) the plan.

And unless the FAI can produce a pot of gold to incentivise the clubs to join, I would imagine the third tier will be an odd backwater of B-teams and university sides with a handful of provincial clubs propping up the table

Anyone burned by the A Championship will be very sceptical of the proposed Third Tier. What's more - Mayo, CK and Kildare have put in the hard yards at academy level. Seems a weak foundation to bring in clubs who haven't put in those hard yards.

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Originally Posted by cobhlad

Series of articles looking at the current football system across the country.

We have anything but a football pyramid at present..

Connacht - https://extratime.com/articles/35139...-3---connacht/

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The Sligo Leitrim and District League is the only league within the province that operates across multiple counties, although unsurprisingly Sligo constitutes the majority of its clubs. Finally Roscommon operates its own league.

Just on this there are numerous teams from Galway playing in the Roscommon League. Ballinasloe Town, Shiven Rovers, Moylough, Dunmore and Ballymoe in the top 2 divisions are all from County Galway.

I think the biggest barrier to a Connacht Senior League is cost. To me, it would make sense for the likes of Mervue, Salthill and Athenry in Galway to want to play against Castlebar Celtic, Westport, Boyle Celtic and the best sides in Sligo to play at a higher level. I really don't think the attraction of playing Corrib Rangers or Galway Hibs would be too much to give up but obviously travel costs, in particular, would increase.

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Originally Posted by Burnsie

I've always been a fan of the idea in principle.

But I've seen first-hand over the many years the sheer parochialism and self-interest of the blazers who will ultimately have to promote (or at least acquiesce to) the plan.

And unless the FAI can produce a pot of gold to incentivise the clubs to join, I would imagine the third tier will be an odd backwater of B-teams and university sides with a handful of provincial clubs propping up the table

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It's the biggest challenge for sure. My silver bullet suggestion for both was to make the national league strictly amateur with the attraction being the title of best amateur club.

I'm pretty sure that would work for Junior clubs like Mervue and Cockhill but is it naïve to think that intermediate clubs would go for that carrot?

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Originally Posted by legendz

Anyone burned by the A Championship will be very sceptical of the proposed Third Tier. What's more - Mayo, CK and Kildare have put in the hard yards at academy level. Seems a weak foundation to bring in clubs who haven't put in those hard yards.

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Of course and rightly so. However, although I'm a big fan of the national academy leagues, I would think the next step for them is to start encouraging existing clubs who want to play nationally to set them up.

Hopefully, an amateur 3rd tier would be the place to do that. Well, that or fill in the missing age gaps at U19, U18, U16 & U14!

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Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

[i]

Just on this there are numerous teams from Galway playing in the Roscommon League. Ballinasloe Town, Shiven Rovers, Moylough, Dunmore and Ballymoe in the top 2 divisions are all from County Galway.

I think the biggest barrier to a Connacht Senior League is cost. To me, it would make sense for the likes of Mervue, Salthill and Athenry in Galway to want to play against Castlebar Celtic, Westport, Boyle Celtic and the best sides in Sligo to play at a higher level. I really don't think the attraction of playing Corrib Rangers or Galway Hibs would be too much to give up but obviously travel costs, in particular, would increase.

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Good spot JC. I'm told there's no maternity ward in Roscommon so the argument could also be made that all the teams in that league are full of Galway lads! ;)

Just on the point about costs, I wonder how much is to do with prestige - ie. the big fish don't want to give up their small pond. No hotel needed if you're up and back same day, and am I right in saying 2hrs would be the furthest distance?

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Originally Posted by Elfman

It's the biggest challenge for sure. My silver bullet suggestion for both was to make the national league strictly amateur with the attraction being the title of best amateur club.

I'm pretty sure that would work for Junior clubs like Mervue and Cockhill but is it naïve to think that intermediate clubs would go for that carrot?

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Frankly it'd be madness for the 3rd tier to be anything but amateur with small expenses at most. There's no way sufficient income would be there for clubs to be part-time or anything approaching what First Division clubs are now.

Agreed but my understanding from earlier in the thread is that the Leinster Senior League already has part-time teams, which checks out with what I've heard.

I'd be of the view that this level should be focused on paying their coaches, maintaining youth teams across every age group and building infrastructure instead of paying players. I don't blame the players for taking a paying gig but would an LSL team show interest in a 3rd tier if they had to stop this practice?

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Originally Posted by BigEars

Frankly it'd be madness for the 3rd tier to be anything but amateur with small expenses at most. There's no way sufficient income would be there for clubs to be part-time or anything approaching what First Division clubs are now.

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There are lads getting paid in probably every junior league at sometime or another too. Maybe not that much, and not systematically, but it definitely happens at levels you might be surprised.

I know one club in Louth were using registration fees of the schoolboy section to pay a couple of players NECL.

I am aware of a few clubs split the underage sections from the men's team organisationally , as the men's team can be an absolute black-hole for money.

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Originally Posted by Elfman

It's the biggest challenge for sure. My silver bullet suggestion for both was to make the national league strictly amateur with the attraction being the title of best amateur club.

I'm pretty sure that would work for Junior clubs like Mervue and Cockhill but is it naïve to think that intermediate clubs would go for that carrot?

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Two problems I'd invisage with that. Firstly the reality is that some clubs will always want to pay at least some of their players, whether they're labelled or told to be amateur or not. Either because they're ambitioius to climb the levels, or just because they want to be top dogs in their patch. So there'll always be a local business man willing to provide a few Euro that can be slipped into players' boots to help attract better ones. Secondly - what happens when a team goes up from the amateur level and another team comes down into it? If the team going up can only be amateur when promoted then they'll struggle when moved into a semi-pro league. Likewise the club coming down will face a lot of upheaval if it has to get rid of any paid players etc. It's feasible that the same teams could yo-yo up and down between the 2nd and 3rd tier fairly regulalry, and switching constantly between amateur and non-amateur would be a bit of a comercial and administrative rollercoaster.

Thanks for giving your view EYG. The first problem I'm grand with because, as you rightly say, such a club sounds like they value short term gains ie. neglecting the youth teams for a semi-pro men's team.

The idea would be for clubs to cut their cloth accordingly and only go semi-pro when they have paid coaches, decent facilities and youth teams at every age group.

I'm more concerned with the second problem you mention. To a degree, early struggles are natural (it's a big change after all) but I do worry that there aren't enough clubs who make sure they have a solid base before they go semi-pro. Do you think there's many clubs like this in the LSL and MSL?

It would be cheaper to offer senior players a few quid to play than to operate a youth system. Realistically how many youth players go on to be good enough at senior level

Exactly, that's the problem. A rich local throws the club a few quid to pay players then cuts it out when he's bored. Not the best way of building a sustainable club/fan base.

The idea would be to reward the clubs who have put the hard yards in, built a presence in their communities like LOI clubs are now doing.

What's the point of having an amateur third tier if players can get paid playing at a lower level?

Who - players or clubs - is going to be interested in that?

I think you'd be just hamstringing things with such a strict rule. If a new club can afford to pay players a few quid, let them

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

What's the point of having an amateur third tier if players can get paid playing at a lower level?

Who - players or clubs - is going to be interested in that?

I think you'd be just hamstringing things with such a strict rule. If a new club can afford to pay players a few quid, let them

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I think this is the only sensible approach tbh, as it deals with the game the way it is rather than the way it would be idealistically.

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Originally Posted by Elfman

Good spot JC. I'm told there's no maternity ward in Roscommon so the argument could also be made that all the teams in that league are full of Galway lads! ;)

Just on the point about costs, I wonder how much is to do with prestige - ie. the big fish don't want to give up their small pond. No hotel needed if you're up and back same day, and am I right in saying 2hrs would be the furthest distance?

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Maybe in very competitive league like Limerick there's an element of that. I don't think Mervue United and Salthill Devon are too bothered about winning the Galway & DL but maybe there's an element of then not being one of the best teams - if a new Division is created obviously some teams have to be at the bottom, though presumably there would be relegation to/from the CSL to the local league.

I think the Kerry FC project is the way forward for most teams.
I believe the new Mayo FC model is another interesting project.
I think the FAI have to put this out there for all clubs, but itis the clubs that have secure facilities and have developed good structures in place over the years will be better suited for this type of league.
The idea will attract those clubs which will be looking for a new outlet or level for their player development to achieve.

I think the FAI will be looking at clubs like the above to form this league with a definite regional format.

With new TV & Radio deals, let's hope this Third Tier plan is a success as it can only promote the game further.

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Originally Posted by nr637

I think the Kerry FC project is the way forward for most teams.

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What in particular about the side that's finished bottom of the First Division in each of their two seasons to date makes them the way forward for most teams?