FAI troubles

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Originally Posted by Scrufil

Incredible!! The replies to my suggestion just display the small mindedness that is the bane of this country. Without the LoI there is no National team. Honour the locals first or you have no business being at an Irish International match.

How is this any different to people being given first pick of tickets at Euros or World Cups because they had proof of going to games in the Aviva? Exact same principle.

I liken the FAI to the Civil Service in this country. They are meant to act on your behalf and be glad they have jobs not act as if they own the money and we are the dirt beneath their feet.

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Incentives to attend more matches, yes.

Forcing people to go.....eh..no.

Reduced price tickets for LOI season ticket holders, or some other sort of nonsense might have a small affect on attendances and support for the league, but straight out forcing people to go if they want to attend national team matches will have no benefit whatsoever to anyone.

I remember when Finn Harps hosted a few glamour friendlies, Celtic came over, there was a Man United v Liverpool legends game too, and they sold tickets inside the ground on match nights. You had to pay into the ground to get the ticket for the other games. People would pay into the match, get their ticket for the other game, and just leave again.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

It probably needs to decrease its expenditure more to be honest - look at issues like the national team manager's salary and the seemingly excessive number of coaches being employed around the country.

But yeah, if nothing else at all, if you start forcing people to go to LoI games, or using a stick to "encourage" them to go, that'll only lead to a backlash sentiment tbh.

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What do you mean by the excessive number of coaches being employed? Do you mean national team coaches or RDOs, etc?

Watching from afar (Irish-born, Canadian raised), it’s difficult to see a path to mainstream relevancy for the League of Ireland.

If you can watch the world’s best (Premier League) on the TV, why would you go down the road to watch what are essentially semi pros duke it out?

It will no doubt be dismissed as something like a “terrible yank idea,” but if I won the lotto I’d attempt to have a Dublin-based team compete in the Scottish league or preferably start at the bottom of the English system and work its way up.

The top Welsh teams play in England, and I appreciate Ireland is not part of Britain, but there are precedents for leagues involving multiple countries.

We have three Canadian teams in MLS for example.

Having a Dublin-based team playing against higher level opposition on a regular basis, would provide a place for a core of our national team players to compete regularly at a high level, while offering supporters a chance to attend elite matches live without leaving the country.

The League of Ireland will never convince “barstoolers” to reject Man Utd, Liverpool, etc. I believe an elite Dublin-based team could change that conversation, especially if this team were competing at Championship level or higher.

Under this model, there would still be a place for the League of Ireland, more in terms of a development league to feed that Dublin team.

Before you lose your minds, it’s not going to happen, so relax !

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

What do you mean by the excessive number of coaches being employed? Do you mean national team coaches or RDOs, etc?

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I'm really going off sbgawa's post in the other forum here. Seems a well thought-out post, and the unfortunate reality is that it's going to be far easier for the FAI to cut costs than raise income at the moment.

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

It will no doubt be dismissed as something like a “terrible yank idea,” but if I won the lotto I’d attempt to have a Dublin-based team compete in the Scottish league or preferably start at the bottom of the English system and work its way up.

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It's a terrible yank idea.

Do you know what the bottom of the English system is? AFC Wimbledon started at the fifth non-league tier. They're a little bit bigger than an LoI side (4k average attendances now) and they've reached the lower rungs of the third tier. That won't generate any interest in Ireland - and once you lose interest, you'll start going back quick enough I'd say.

You can't just enter the Scottish league either; bottom rung is the Highland/Lowland leagues.

Ah, the Dublin Dons idea. It was unwise then, and unwise now. Some dinky 4th tier outfit will be a source of derision for the same people who treat the LOI like dirt while jetting off to Anfield, Old Trafford and the Emirates every few weekends.

To add to Stu's point about being mired in the lower tier, any any such team would be under no requirement to actually play Irish-born players. The Welsh clubs in the English system were mentioned. Cardiff have just four Welsh players in their 32-man first team squad, Swansea have five (Newport, in the 4th tier, have 9, Wrexham, in the 5th, have 12, but mostly teenagers).

And, if I may elaborate, forcing fans of the national team to attend LOI games would be counter-productive to the extreme. I would wager you'd see falling attendance at international games as a result, and increased resentment of the LOI. You can't point a metaphorical gun at someone and force them to like something. It reminds me of the idea that we should ban TV coverage of the EPL here.

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You are mistaken if you think that, imo. The bulk of the power in the FAI rests regional and grassroots football. That's who hold the most votes and positions.

Exhibit 1 to back that up - the entire disorganised mess the FAI is in at present, on and off the pitch.

The international team cannot by any remote stretch of the hallucinogenic imagination be termed the LoI's bitch

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Originally Posted by Scrufil

Incredible!! The replies to my suggestion just display the small mindedness that is the bane of this country. Without the LoI there is no National team. Honour the locals first or you have no business being at an Irish International match.

How is this any different to people being given first pick of tickets at Euros or World Cups because they had proof of going to games in the Aviva? Exact same principle.

I liken the FAI to the Civil Service in this country. They are meant to act on your behalf and be glad they have jobs not act as if they own the money and we are the dirt beneath their feet.

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Don't try to get around the obscenity filter

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My closest league of Ireland ground is over 60 miles away from me in Dundalk. As someone from Co. Antrim I feel about as much affiliation with Dundalk as I do with Boca Juniors or Galatasary.

And it's not just northerners who make this idea daft to the point of being offensively ignorant. There are 19 counties out of 32 where there is no LOI club to support (Antrim, Armagh, Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Down, Fermanagh, Kerry, Kildare, Kilkenny, Laois, Leitrim, Mayo, Meath, Monaghan, Offaly, Roscommon, Tipperary & Tyrone). The people living in those places have as much right to be at an Ireland match as you or anyone else.

None of this is my fault. I'm already making a 220 mile round trip to Lansdowne Road. So why should i have to pay more than the guy next to me because of where I live? I'm not going to tolerate being charged more than a fella who goes to the odd Bohs game on a friday night and can get to Ireland games by taking the bus from the city centre after work. I'd be sitting in the house watching on telly and spending my money on something else.

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Originally Posted by Scrufil

I liken the FAI to the Civil Service in this country. They are meant to act on your behalf and be glad they have jobs not act as if they own the money and we are the dirt beneath their feet.

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You're talking through your hoop. There's absolutely no need for that. Do you know what the role of the Civil Service is? It's to advise Minister's on how to run their departments, and subsequently to implement government policy. The government is made up of politicians that people such as yourself elect. The FAI board is essentially made up of elected officials from around the country. So equate the FAI to the govt, not the CS.

"Be glad they have jobs" - that old chestnut.

What I would do though, in reference to your original post, is give free entry to anyone with a LoI season ticket - or the option of Irish home tickets for €5/€10. That rewards LoI clubs and fans. The weekly LoI attendance is roughly, around the 10k mark each week: it is achievable.

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

If you can watch the world’s best (Premier League) on the TV, why would you go down the road to watch what are essentially semi pros duke it out?

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**Cough, splutter, MLS, Toronto, Vancouver, cough, splutter, Austrian Bundesliga, Salzburg, cough, splutter** it's a lazy example.

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It will no doubt be dismissed as something like a “terrible yank idea,” but if I won the lotto I’d attempt to have a Dublin-based team compete in the Scottish league or preferably start at the bottom of the English system and work its way up.
The top Welsh teams play in England, and I appreciate Ireland is not part of Britain, but there are precedents for leagues involving multiple countries.

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What UEFA examples do you have in Men's football?

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We have three Canadian teams in MLS for example. Having a Dublin-based team playing against higher level opposition on a regular basis, would provide a place for a core of our national team players to compete regularly at a high level, while offering supporters a chance to attend elite matches live without leaving the country.

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And as soon as a more attractive franchise opens up, the MLS will tell your lads to "do one" too. A Dublin-based team will have to earn it's place through the English system, just like every other club that wishes to play in the PL. I also think that you're being very naive to suggest that Dynamo Dublin vs Burnley could be considered any more elite, than Dundalk vs Bohs. After all, we've seen Jeff and Robbie play **** in Dublin plenty of times in a green shirt, without watching them do it in a blue jersey or a claret one.

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The League of Ireland will never convince “barstoolers” to reject Man Utd, Liverpool, etc.

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Wrong.
It's funny that you mention united, because I know 3 die-hard United fans who no longer support united, but attend Bohs, Rovers and Shels in the past 18 months.

It can happen, has happened, and will continue to happen. Irish people eventually understand that these clubs do not care about their own local supporters, nevermind the Irish 'fans' who travel for hours for a ****up. people are commodities to be used in English football at the "elite" level. Folks who would have constantly travelled realise that the LoI is an affordable alternative to the ****up events that going abroad to watch united, liverpool etc are.
Examples are there for all to see. I'm a late convert to following (consistently) a LoI club. I've always liked Bohs, going back to when I started secondary school, when a mate of mine, his brother played against Bohs in the cup, and we went to Dalyer. Then another mate, his brother started to play for Bohs. I'd always try to go to a couple of games but Friday nights never suited me. I've been a consistent Ireland attendee from 14 - by myself - but I go to more LoI games than I do Ireland matches now, because it is more enjoyable.
Anyone who tries to convince me that the football played this decade at Ireland games by Irish players is of significant higher standard than the best LoI players in the same period is on a no-sell.

A Kilnamanagh based Pats supporters group grew out of nowhere when we were in 2nd year in secondary school. LoI clubs are more relevant in terms of schoolboy clubs than ever before, and not just because of the Nat underage leagues, but because of the work done by community officers in clubs.

The real problem is finance and facilities. It's not quite a build it and they will come, but facilities do mean a lot. I'm a Terrace man. I love the terraces and always have. But I'm also disabled now, and I simply can't stand long enough at football games on a regular basis. Standing in the ****ing rain isn't quite a death sentence for me, but it is a problem. But this is referencing facilities, when clubs in the main can't give players a full year contract, nevermind multiple year contracts. Bums on seats, in the short-term means more money to offer proper contracts, which means transfer fees when the bigger clubs come knocking - as it should - and then hopefully this country can have a mindset change and start going down the municipal stadium/facility route like all normal countries in EUrope.

There is a horrid vicious circle in Irish football. We need the clubs getting into the local schools to compete with and offer an alternative to the GAA. But most club officials are either volunteers or have jobs, and same for the players and coaches.
To rectify that we either need investment privately into clubs, or funding from govt. It will take a generation to fully break the trend of people travelling from Ireland to watch games in another country, but it can happen. The more relevant our clubs become to kids, and Bohs are doing a great job with this, then the better chance of holding onto them later on in life. Friday night I think is a killer - particularly for that bracket of age where people are either going straight from work out on the lash, or going home from college. Sat evening for me feels a no-brainer, but I understand this hasn't worked in the past.

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Under this model, there would still be a place for the League of Ireland, more in terms of a development league to feed that Dublin team.

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That's what every league in Europe is, to the big 4 of Spain, Eng, Ger and Ita.

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Before you lose your minds, it’s not going to happen, so relax !

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Thankfully.

That Gubay guy who prepared the LOI Brand Report was rightly laughed out of town, but he did have a point on one thing. The LOI is becoming quite hipster cool, and probably has been for a few years. People are tired of football as showbiz on TV. Facilities and match day experience are good in most places, community outreach is good, and apart from the FAI financial situation, the all-round vibe is generally good. There were 7,000 at Rovers v Bohs late season and I bet there’ll be more this year. The FAI Cup Final was really good and the last few seasons have seen good European performances (and bad too). There’s wide appreciation that the LOI has good players worth paying to see and there’s lot of goodwill still to be harnessed. Maybe IF86 is a bit far away to have noticed this. Proper investment & promotion can only make things better. Personally, I like the Lucid idea too, but I appreciate it has its flaws and may not appeal to everyone. A reboot of the FAI may help things especially attracting some public money.

Of course on the flipside are things like Limerick’s insolvency and Dundalk’s toilets(!) and who knows about Dundalk’s losses and the commitment of their owners.

Interesting discussion I had yesterday with a guy in decorating the home place, a middle aged football fan, a liverpool fan. Has applied for the Dublin games and got one ticket. Hes a liverpool fan. He was telling me how when longford hosted some of the games in that u17 tournament he went to them. Said the standard of the italians was very good and great to watch.

I'm pretty sure he isnt a LOI fan but just a general football fan and Ireland fan. Interesting that one would go along to that kind of underage game and drive all the way to Longford from home but wouldn't go to a LOI game*

*I cant confirm if he does or has gone in the past to LOI its an assumption he hasnt

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

That Gubay guy who prepared the LOI Brand Report was rightly laughed out of town, but he did have a point on one thing. The LOI is becoming quite hipster cool, and probably has been for a few years. People are tired of football as showbiz on TV. Facilities and match day experience are good in most places, community outreach is good, and apart from the FAI financial situation, the all-round vibe is generally good. There were 7,000 at Rovers v Bohs late season and I bet there’ll be more this year. The FAI Cup Final was really good and the last few seasons have seen good European performances (and bad too). There’s wide appreciation that the LOI has good players worth paying to see and there’s lot of goodwill still to be harnessed. Maybe IF86 is a bit far away to have noticed this. Proper investment & promotion can only make things better. Personally, I like the Lucid idea too, but I appreciate it has its flaws and may not appeal to everyone. A reboot of the FAI may help things especially attracting some public money.

Of course on the flipside are things like Limerick’s insolvency and Dundalk’s toilets(!) and who knows about Dundalk’s losses and the commitment of their owners.

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what are the flaws you see with Lucids idea? I haven't seen enough of the proposals to understand really.

On the LOI, a few more good runs for the bigger sides, like rovers or dundalk will sustain bigger crowds for those teams in general, and probably increase interest also. Its all about sustaining and growing that though.

I was looking at the new Independent directors of the FAI and see Catherine Guy listed but her sister Cliodhna was a previous FAI employee in the legal department. Not sure how much of clean break this is ?

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

what are the flaws you see with Lucids idea? I haven't seen enough of the proposals to understand really.

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Ah mainly just relating to relations with our northern brethern!

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Interesting discussion I had yesterday with a guy in decorating the home place, a middle aged football fan, a liverpool fan. Has applied for the Dublin games and got one ticket. Hes a liverpool fan. He was telling me how when longford hosted some of the games in that u17 tournament he went to them. Said the standard of the italians was very good and great to watch.

I'm pretty sure he isnt a LOI fan but just a general football fan and Ireland fan. Interesting that one would go along to that kind of underage game and drive all the way to Longford from home but wouldn't go to a LOI game*

*I cant confirm if he does or has gone in the past to LOI its an assumption he hasnt

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I put my bins out last night.

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Originally Posted by ltfc_2004

I was looking at the new Independent directors of the FAI and see Catherine Guy listed but her sister Cliodhna was a previous FAI employee in the legal department. Not sure how much of clean break this is ?

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Well spotted. I hear there are Five Guys.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Ah mainly just relating to relations with our northern brethern!

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I don't think its flaws on his plan. It's one of the obstacles to implementing his plan.

Niall Quinn on the Late Late. Tubridy absolutely butchered it. He gave Quinn very little opportunity to share his vision for the FAI due to his long-winded and ambiguous questions and his persistent interruptions. It was dreadful. The stage was set perfectly for us to understand the plan going forward, instead Tubridy kept prying for a cheap line on the state of the FAI before Quinn got his current gig.