All-Ireland League Thread

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Is it politics or the lack of a plan of substance that's killed this?

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The IFA is a unionist-minded organisation. Football in NI has a unionist mindset. The overwhelming majority of clubs in the north are from unionist areas and/or have a fan base that is very largely unionist. Clubs from a Nationalist background are a rare creature indeed in the top 3 tiers of NI football - even though NI as a whole is about 45% catholic and 45% protestant. It is those predominantly unionist clubs in the pyramid that provide the officers that pack the various committees, top table etc in the IFA and NIFL.

It would be naïve in the extreme to think that an organisation which refuses to acknowledge there is an issue with insisting on a unionist flag and anthem for the supposedly cross-community Northern Ireland team is capable of looking at an all-island league in an impartial manner. They are not. There are very many in NI football and the IFA who will oppose it no matter what is involved. They will find lots of reasons and excuses to dress it up as being about football, but fundamentally it will be because they want nothing to do with the south.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

The Premier League broke away from the FA back in 1992, so I don't think the IFA have the power to stop this if clubs want to go ahead.

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That was a power struggle in which the clubs held the power, and the FA bottled it.

The clubs in NI have very little, to no power in reality. They need the European money - now more than ever. And that is at the behest of the IFA.

I'll acknowledge that the northern mindset must have had a part in the decision alright. I'm surprised Lucid got as far as he did tbh.

But let's not kid ourselves into thinking that an AIL is the cure for all the LoI's ills either, as some posters seem to think. The league is in crisis, but that doesn't mean it can't get worse

I'll ask this because it is on my mind, Stu. Is your reluctance to see the potential benefits of an AIL down to some protectionism related to how UCD would fare in that kind of set up? That they might become buried permanently in the lower echelons? I would understand if that were, at least partially, the reason because i could see it happening to smaller clubs.

Nope. I've said before I would like to see an AIL.

I simply don't see how the AIL as proposed will deliver anything like the benefits suggested. Comments like "it'd be fresh" or "we have to try something" only serve to underline a serious lack of critical analysis in my view

I don't think politics, mindset, or anything vaguely religious or otherwise played any part in the decision of our northern friends.

It's simply the lack of detail. You can't blame them to be honest.

There were a lot of details put out there, but a lot of the key financials were the issue clearly.

All Ireland cup competition to replace league cups north and south would be an interesting way to try and build confidence in an AIL, if UEFA were minded to throw in an extra Europa place, it might be attractive enough

No way would UEFA sanction an extra European spot for that. It'd be an interesting competition - but would it really be much different to the Setanta Cup? Interesting tournament, but ultimately a failure

One more club in a preliminary round would be no problem to UEFA, particularly if it's pitched as a friendhip across the barricades. I'd like to teach the world to sing schtick.

It'd set a precedent though. An extra spot for Czechoslovakia? The Baltics? Greece/Cyprus/Turkey? The Tunnocks Cup?

It's even less likely than Lucid's proposal.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

No way would UEFA sanction an extra European spot for that. It'd be an interesting competition - but would it really be much different to the Setanta Cup? Interesting tournament, but ultimately a failure

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Such a negative mindset. If it is to succeed it will be down to money. If the chap can deliver even half of what is/has been suggested it will be massive progress. All I've seen is comments like "league in crisis " "ultimately a failure" doomed "never happen" Unless you've been in a room or privvy to negotiations your not best qualified to write it off. I think some people might be a bit surprised it's nearly like the Irish mentality of begrudgement and wanting something to fail

And that's fine for your view, but it's a terrible way for making decisions like this. Would you hire someone for a job when they've no CV or references?

I've given reasons for my comments you've noted. Feel free to argue against my reasons though

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Is it politics or the lack of a plan of substance that's killed this?

The Premier League broke away from the FA back in 1992, so I don't think the IFA have the power to stop this if clubs want to go ahead.

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Incorrect on both counts. The EPL broke away from the English Football League, not the English FA. The IFA, and indeed any association, do hold the power to stop an AIL, unless the clubs decide to go it completely alone and not be recognised by UEFA, FIFA etc, and this too would be the case with players playing for such teams.

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Originally Posted by mrtndvn

Politics. The substance is there for those with an open mind.

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Ok, since you claim there is substance, give us some examples of tangible elements of the proposal?

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

The IFA is a unionist-minded organisation. Football in NI has a unionist mindset. The overwhelming majority of clubs in the north are from unionist areas and/or have a fan base that is very largely unionist. Clubs from a Nationalist background are a rare creature indeed in the top 3 tiers of NI football - even though NI as a whole is about 45% catholic and 45% protestant. It is those predominantly unionist clubs in the pyramid that provide the officers that pack the various committees, top table etc in the IFA and NIFL.

It would be naïve in the extreme to think that an organisation which refuses to acknowledge there is an issue with insisting on a unionist flag and anthem for the supposedly cross-community Northern Ireland team is capable of looking at an all-island league in an impartial manner. They are not. There are very many in NI football and the IFA who will oppose it no matter what is involved. They will find lots of reasons and excuses to dress it up as being about football, but fundamentally it will be because they want nothing to do with the south.



That was a power struggle in which the clubs held the power, and the FA bottled it.

The clubs in NI have very little, to no power in reality. They need the European money - now more than ever. And that is at the behest of the IFA.

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On your last point, you obviously have little or no understanding of how the IFA membership is composed and operated. NIFL clubs hold a considerable number of votes in the organisation, have reps on the IFA Council as well as the IFA board.

As for you painting a political angle to the stance, it must be confusing then that one club championing the proposal is, as portrayed by the press, a Protestant Unionist club by background, while the chair of a club who spoke against is, again going by the press portrayal, from a club with a Catholic Nationalist background.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

The league is in crisis, but that doesn't mean it can't get worse

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I think we could have our new corporate tagline for the League of Ireland, stu :D

It's better than Gabay I guess :)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Nope. I've said before I would like to see an AIL.

I simply don't see how the AIL as proposed will deliver anything like the benefits suggested. Comments like "it'd be fresh" or "we have to try something" only serve to underline a serious lack of critical analysis in my view

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100% some people seem to thank an all island league will mean that football fans both side of the border will flock to LOI & NIFL grounds which is ludicrous

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Originally Posted by seand

I think we could have our new corporate tagline for the League of Ireland, stu :D

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seconded

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Originally Posted by seand

I think we could have our new corporate tagline for the League of Ireland, stu :D

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I was thinking "Ah Jaysus, What now?" but this works also.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

"Both" is probably fair enough actually.

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The politics side of it will always say “no” the lack of detail around it just makes it easier for them.
As said before I think a fully thought out business plan - 3/5 years. Starting out half cocked or “sure it will be alright “ approach could put a viable, sustainable AIL back decades.