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Very similar thing happened in the Iran v Qatar U-19 qualification match recently. Keeper saved a penalty in a shoot out, thought he had won the match, instead got a second yellow. Incredibly, the outfield player who had to go into goal saved the retaken penalty and they won anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by the 12 th man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n26Rk7f6kfs
Very disappointing way to go out - like many people, my initial reaction was shock and bafflement at Corcoran getting sent off, having never heard of something like this happening before - like others I'm sure, I was questioning the sanity and/or ethics of the ref, but thanks to those who checked the rules, I do now acknowledge that he was within his rights to apply a law, which while seemingly draconian in its application, was brought in to stamp out a practice that has probably robbed many teams of deserved victories because of the crucial situations where it arises.
So let's try to focus on some positives out of this tournament, because there are a number of them. For the second time in a row, we qualified for the UEFA U17 Championships Finals and got out of the group stages - this may be a sign that we are starting to see systematic development of young talent in Ireland. While we didn't go further than last year, we performed better this year - in spite of our defeat to Belgium, we didn't receive any hammerings and got out of the group more comfortably - and while we were stretched by a Dutch team that had beaten Germany and Spain, we fought back and took them all the way. We had the top scorer in the qualifiers (Idah) and we currently have one of the top scorers in the Finals (Parrott). It's clear that a few of these lads will go on to have good careers with Idah, Parrott, O'Reilly and Cassidy all potential candidates for first team breakthroughs next season and more of the squad at big English clubs than last year (admittedly that can be a double-edged sword). And Parrott and Corcoran will get another shot next year, at home.
Just out of curiousity, do you know what the exact rule change is?Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
I'm just trying to find something in the rulebook to explain what happened, but you sound like you know something specific.
I'd say it's entirely possible Corcoran didn't even know he was breaking a rule, which would make it worse. But when refs make bizarre decisions, it's often better trying to understand why the decision was made rather than having a go at them. Not his fault if he applies the rules correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
This was part of a wholesale change to laws by the International Board in March 2017
Law 14 - Penalty-kick
Section 3
If, after having given the signal for a PK to be taken, the referee sees that the goalkeeper is not in his right place on the goal-line, he shall, nevertheless, allow the kick to proceed. It shall be retaken, if a goal is not scored.
If, after having given the signal for a PK to be taken, and before the ball has been kicked, the goalkeeper moves his feet, the referee shall, nevertheless, allow the kick to proceed. It shall be retaken, if a goal is not scored.
If, after the referee has given the signal for a PK to be taken, and before the ball is in play, a player of the defending team encroaches into the penalty-area, or within ten yards of the penalty-mark, the referee shall, nevertheless, allow the kick to proceed. It shall be retaken, if a goal is not scored.
Crucially however: (my underline)
The player concerned shall be cautioned.
Because the Irish keeper had already been booked, he was now sent off.
Also, because he was sent off, and not injured, he could only be replaced by someone allowed on the pitch at the end of the game.
What you've just seen is a referee, doing his job and applying the Laws of the Game the way he's been trained to do.
However, he will be roundly castigated by people who've never reffed a game in their life
And 'cautioned' actually means yellow carded, yes? As opposed to being warned.
yep, caution means yellow card.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Its already been said here, but the keepers first yellow was utterly idiotic. For time wasting with twenty minutes left.
Although it doesn't do much to help the u17s last night, it will probably now make keepers less likely to waste time to run down to penalty kicks in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-...and-misconduct
The yellow card communicates a caution and the red card communicates a sending-off so yes, a caution = yellow card. My initial reaction when I saw our keeper saving it was that he was well off his line but the slow motion doesn't make it quite as clear. I wasn't surprised by the fact that he asked for it to be taken again. What I am a bit unclear about is if you can be cautioned/sent off during a penalty shoot out, why can't you make substitutions during a shoot out?
I thought we were too defensive throughout the game and when we need to up our game and score, we did. Should we not have tried to play on the front foot throughout rather than playing for the lottery that is penalties.
Two other annoying things: the Irish commentators were utterly crap.
Shane Ross decided to call at my door in a meet and greet exercise in the neighborhood with 5 minutes left on the clock. He hadn't a clue that the game was on and yet he is the Minister for Sport.
I didn’t see last night’s game but I hear they played conservatively, deliberately keeping things tight as the first priority. It may not be the best window to assess how good or bad these guys are.
Unless I heard Brian Kerr’s quotes out of context, I’ve got to say I disagree with his immediate assessment of the Emerging Talent Programme and what it’s producing. I was at the Bosnia game (having the pleasure of watching it with our own Kingdom) and here is what I texted to some friends straight after.
“Some serious talent in the U17s. Both CBs big strong and ball playing. Kameron Ledwidge the stand out for me but Nathan Collins good too. Connell left back looks the part as did the sub full back Max Murphy when he came on.
Tyrieke Wright right midfield receives the ball brilliantly in tight situations and has the skill to escape attention. Parrot was in and out of it but when in it he was really proactive. Idah was a mixed bag. Great athlete but lazy choices and poor execution sometimes. Lovely finish for his goal but could have had a couple more. McEntee another giant and good on the ball. Knight a talented CM, Coffey has physical presence but didn’t show much as a footballing midfielder. Brennan looks like Wes but didn’t get into the game enough. Keeper Corcoran didn’t have much to do. Bosnia keeper a fully grown giant! Looks about 30.
In general we looked a good team, organised and fully cohesive. Both CBs happy to carry the ball forward until they are challenged. Nearly ballsed it up once but the team move like a unit, much like Germany at senior level, which is great to see in an Irish team. My criticism is that maybe they’re a bit too technical, but in truth 4 or 5–1 wouldn’t have been unfair. We isolated their defence at ease at times but finishing was a bit panicked, Idah and Wright in particular. They track back well and put in some good tackles, none in desperation either. A few hairy moments but that’s what you’d expect in 80 mins of football.”
Highlight of the day for me was Andy Reid saying hello to me
Word has it he set his Sky box to record Home & Away and was devastated to find it had recorded some obscure footie match instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
From what I'm hearing Collins is already in the Stoke 23's. His brother is with UCD too.
highlights on UEFA's YouTube Channel
I was wondering who this group of players will face in the qualifiers for the 2019 UEFA U19 championships when they move up an age grade later this year.
Turns out the qualifiers will be held here in October, and would you look at who is in the group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_U...ation#Group_10
Thanks Tets. I would fancy us to get over Bosnia and Faroes in Ireland.
One keeper feeling worse than Corcoran is the Spain keeper whose howler let Belgium win 2-1. Though he made a great save afterwards. Also on UEFA's youtube channel.
That's a really informative post; thanks! (A corollary appears to be that moving side-to-side along your line is now no longer allowed either?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
So yeah, starting behind the line and charging out, as Corcoran did, is the issue.
I wonder though if he even knows himself that it was a foul? This would be a big oversight on the Irish team if so - who themselves didn't seem to know the rule, given the amount of complaints after.
I think the rule is very harsh, but the apparent lack of awareness of it from professional coaches is very surprising.
Yeah but refs should use common sense, i am sure you wont see this kind of carry on in the world cup when the big nations playQuote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
Disagree with that. People want consistency from referees - which you won't get by leaving it up to them to decide when to implement the rules.
There is in theory no reason why this won't impact the World Cup. (Although coaches being aware of the rules would be one factor which would reduce the incidence)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
They do, and its the common sense approach that people want, and that so often refs dont give us. Just look at the VAR shenanigans.
With great reluctance and after a long period of righteous enraged indignation (of Trapesque proportions), I'd concede the officials got it accurately enough according to that new penalty rule. Possibly, as the ref only orders a retake in the event of the penalty not being converted, there may well have been many goalkeeping infringements gone unremarked upon. Though it does seem a bit odd that the offending goalie only gets a yellow card if the penalty is missed.
The goalie only gets punished if his sin reaps a dividend. You go in to rob a bank with a weapon but come out without any dosh, that's okay you can walk home.
I can see some rationale in restricting what antics the goalie can get up to when facing a penalty in normal game time, because his team fouled in the penalty area. But in a penalty shoot-out, it doesn't seem right to rigidly handicap the goalie to such extremes. Even though the ref may have got it right re Corcoran, I'd still want a payback with interest somewhere along the line, in order to realign the moral scales.
Exactly what I was thinking too. It's the same transgression whether the penalty is saved or not, it should be punished the same also.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I'd prefer a warning for first offence, followed by a yellow if it happens again, regardless of whether the penalty is scored or not.