Where to from now....

Crafty and I have been talking to each other about the merits of the Danish (population 5.5m) and Uruguayan (population 3.3m) models.

Both are of comparable population and are surrounded by giants of the world game.

As mentioned by XXX, Morten Olsen has completed control over the national teams of all ages. What other differences are there - and if there are only going to be churlish cranky remarks please refrain.

One thing that strikes me as almost unique is the number of clubs in Dublin competing for an audience. Is this holding us back? How many top flight pro clubs are in Montevideo or Copenhagen?

Crafty and Stutts as usual talking sense. I feel the exact same, they could all retire save dunne. He is who we really need to play on as we are weakest at the back with no real leaders or experience, as was shown in the Euros.

I remember a couple of us pointed out in the past, that Trap has no real plan B. Interesting point here from Given
"“That put us back and everything you train and work for, game plans and things, kind of go out the window."
So basically he is saying our training and perparation and leetle details all came down to ensuring we didn't concede early and if that didn't happen then it all goes to pot. What a bloody joke. Seriously.

Also what is it with the Irish psyche and the arrogance to be unable to accept any responsibility whether its the recession or owing money or players not admitting individual mistakes. Given was woeful and cost us a couple of goals, Ward also. Why cant they put up their hands and say look we were well beaten around the field, but had individual mistakes not cost us a few goals, it would have been a lot tighter. And thats the fact of the matter.

Don't forget though Ireland also has the distraction of various other team sports as 'competition', so has a more limited pool to choose from.

And don't forget Denmark and Uruguay have also had 'naff' tournaments in the past. It's not always about punching above yer weight...

Napoleon said that no plan survived its first encounter with the enemy.

Napoleon won more battles than loads of the big names put together in his time. Admittedly it did'nt go well at Waterloo !

Anyway the Irish team having no strategy to dealing with going a goal down is comical. Any team can go a goal down sometimes due to farcical circumstances.

Trappatoni : For the sake of Horses all over Ireland say arrivividecci (?)

Horses all over Ireland are becoming nervous wrecks !

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Anyway the Irish team having no strategy to dealing with going a goal down is comical. Any team can go a goal down sometimes due to farcical circumstances.

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I thought we equalised against Croatia when we went a goal down but I must have imagined that.

In the other games he had no successful strategy when going a goal down against the world champions and the former world champions but he did have a strategy. Against Spain he changed the system at half time and then conceded 3 more and against Italy he tried having 3 forwards. So forget this no Plan B rubbish which is touted everywhere. He does have a Plan B and C. They're just not successful plans :(

No, but being technically and tactically up to date improves chances of success / reduces chances of underperformance.

ArdeeBhoy, sure, you get good and bad and I'm not actually in the camp that believes there is a crisis (unless I can be convinced by proper reasoned argument that there is) but I think a poor showing at a tourney is as good a time as any to ask pertinent questions and examine where we can make improvements.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

. So forget this no Plan B rubbish which is touted everywhere. He does have a Plan B and C. They're just not successful plans :(

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Its just the players aren't aware of any of them either :) he did change it against Italy,the system not the players, when he brought long on, and I thought it made a huge difference, and wondered why we had to wait till the end of the first third of the second half of our last game, to play some football, create some chances, and hold onto possession. That was another of my big gripes.

I think soccer in the country for now at least, still takes priority over Gaelic(plenty of examples in the current setup) when a player is good enough, and hopefully still rugby, as the smaller type players will always go towards soccer before rugby too.

I'm not sure a big lad like a Jamie Heaslip is necessarily a loss to Irish football but someone like Richard Dunne could easily have been an asset to rish rugby. In some sense there's a threat.

My mate's 8 year-old had a trial at Arsenal recently. My mate is a very well polished white collar guy with a posh accent and all that and has a very good job. His son was not taken on, despite Millwall for example, being all over him.

He asked the coach why not. The coach said, look, he's good enough but I can tell from talking to you that you won't want your son to have the upbringing we'd provide him. You'd want more and better education than he'd be able to get in our system, even though we do make sure they get some.

My point here is that Jonny Sexton was never going to be a footballer but some of our footballers could be rugby players in future.

Blame the parents thats what I say.

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Originally Posted by DotTV

They've been involved at every level. And yes, the Dutch influence may not be the way to go!

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In my lifetime, Netherlands came from nowhere to go to the top with a bullet, since then they have been in 3 WC finals and won 1 Euro cup. Not a bad record.
Is it their football coaching that turns some of their footballers into egomaniacs who on occasion bottle it, or other occasions the team totally self destructs? I doubt it. Though that doesn't mean we have to import the egomaniac coaching administrator.
I use to be astonished, for decades, that councillors, public service employees etc would go to other European countries, supposedly to observe and learn how some of the basic practical methods of public transport work. Even simple things like ticketing, a bus ticket that lasts an hour within a zone. And yet for decades nothing was actually done.
The Irish struggle with practicalities whereas countries like Denmark/Sweden/Norway can implement the necessary structures and coaching philosophies without too much fuss. Maybe some fuss and opposition from the top clubs in those countries, but eventually a common agreement was found.

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Originally Posted by DotTV

This is from Trap in the Indo.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...14-3144637.htm

He said: "There are many names. We have three, four, five - McClean, for example, James McCarthy is another, and he would allow us to change the system.
"McCarthy plays in a different position. We have also Gibson, who is already here. We have others at this moment and we follow them.
"Now we can try another system because I need to know they can play in this system."

He has mentioned McCarthy in this manner before and looks like he is suggesting building the midfield around him and probably changing to a 5 man midfield. Also, it shows how relucatant he was to change the system during the last campaign.
I think if he can introduce this system it will also allow him to have the 4-4-2 system as a fall back so we are not so one dimensional.

A lone striker such as Long or Walters, with McCarthy behind and any two of Gibson/Whelan/Andrews holding with MacLean and McGeady/Coleman on the flanks might work. We need some ball players in the middle of the park.

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What I've understood from Trap is that he sees McCarthy as an advanced midfielder, that he would have to change the system to allow James to function in that role. And that was the role he asked James to play against Uruguay(?).
But what I've observed from Martinez is that he plays McCarthy more in a holding role, I think Martinez sees McCarthy for what he is, a developing rounded midfielder.

until the powers that be, FAI and local authorities etc, start to take the provision of appropriate playing facilities in this country seriously we will continue to produce players far more comfortable with a non technical non passing game that will only ever bring us so far. most public pitches in this country are an absolute disgrace.

prime example.... the pitch I play on gets no grass cutting from mid october until mid march each season. the reason given is that resources need to be diverted elsewhere during the winter and the council cant afford to look after pitches all year round. unbelievably they then go and build us dressing rooms that are far far bigger and brasher than we will ever need at a cost of well over €500k while the pitch we play on is bumpy, bare through the middle with long grass in the wide areas for most of the year. re-grassing and regularly cutting the grass doesnt make the local papers but cutting a ribbon on a new club house facility in the run up to an election does!

until our players have the use of good pitches to train and play on we will always struggle.

why are we still waiting on the long mooted academy in abbotstown??

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Originally Posted by geysir

What I've understood from Trap is that he sees McCarthy as an advanced midfielder, that he would have to change the system to allow James to function in that role. And that was the role he asked James to play against Uruguay(?).
But what I've observed from Martinez is that he plays McCarthy more in a holding role, I think Martinez sees McCarthy for what he is, a developing rounded midfielder.

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I believe the same, he sees Mccarthy for some sort of player that he has not shown to be at all, and was not good enough in that position against Uruguay, and why would he be? THe realist/cynic in me saw that as an exercise in PR as much as anything else, a way of bluffing the public. Or perhaps Trap just doesn't watch enough in the main, or at the game, to see where Mccarthy has excelled.

Had he done so with other players he would have seen their positional sense - which you don't get on TV - was woeful and may have realised the need for change before we got to the Euros and were disgraced.

Good point JB, i also think weather plays a big part in this also, but of course if hte pitches were in better condition then the weather wouldn't effect them as much.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

ArdeeBhoy, sure, you get good and bad and I'm not actually in the camp that believes there is a crisis (unless I can be convinced by proper reasoned argument that there is) but I think a poor showing at a tourney is as good a time as any to ask pertinent questions and examine where we can make improvements.

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Aye, amen to that.

I've been reading the Irish Sports Council's website where it relates to the FAI and the FAI's own website wrt developmental issues.

The ISC allocates money based on objectives of increasing participation and making sure participation is diverse, rather than on some target of elite performance. The FAI seems to have met these goals.

The FAI's own website seems to have left few stones unturned and places a lot of emphasis on futsal as a technique development tool. Again, it seems to be saying all the right things.

I'm confused Ted.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

until the powers that be, FAI and local authorities etc, start to take the provision of appropriate playing facilities in this country seriously we will continue to produce players far more comfortable with a non technical non passing game that will only ever bring us so far. most public pitches in this country are an absolute disgrace.

prime example.... the pitch I play on gets no grass cutting from mid october until mid march each season. the reason given is that resources need to be diverted elsewhere during the winter and the council cant afford to look after pitches all year round. unbelievably they then go and build us dressing rooms that are far far bigger and brasher than we will ever need at a cost of well over €500k while the pitch we play on is bumpy, bare through the middle with long grass in the wide areas for most of the year. re-grassing and regularly cutting the grass doesnt make the local papers but cutting a ribbon on a new club house facility in the run up to an election does!

until our players have the use of good pitches to train and play on we will always struggle.

why are we still waiting on the long mooted academy in abbotstown??

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As an employee of a local authority I can tell you that it is more than the Cllrs that are at fault here. There is zero joined up thinking in any aspect of public life in this country. I mean I only have to look at the cinder running track up the road from me that turns the lights off at 7pm in winter.

I went for a promotion with in my LA for a job with the sports partnership. (I was hoping to use it as a stepping stone for future plans)
Anyway, during the interview I was asked zero sports related questions. Not one. Nada. Zilch. Despite my involvement with Clontarf CC or the little bit I may do for Shels or my brothers' soccer team. or my interest in running and cycling. Nothing.

Administration seemed to be key. Infuriating bull plop.

If we were to set ourselves up like Germany who'd play the Ozil role? Ireland, Hoolahan or McGeady?

Who'd play the other roles? They don't really use width, but Long would find a role in our version and probably Doyle.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

until the powers that be, FAI and local authorities etc, start to take the provision of appropriate playing facilities in this country seriously we will continue to produce players far more comfortable with a non technical non passing game that will only ever bring us so far. most public pitches in this country are an absolute disgrace.

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Geysir, what's the story with municipal facilities up your way?

I remember going outdoor swimming in a 50m pool Reykjavik, with a super gym complex overlooking it. Our mutual friend told me that almost every town has good municipal facilities.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Geysir, what's the story with municipal facilities up your way?

I remember going outdoor swimming in a 50m pool Reykjavik, with a super gym complex overlooking it. Our mutual friend told me that almost every town has good municipal facilities.

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I never noticed those gyms when I'm at the pool, I can't say I'm a man for the gyms, I'm naturally tall, fit and handsome, I don't need them like some people do.

Football facilities in Iceland have improved in the last 10 years, especially with a number of full sized indoor pitches built by clubs. You just can't credit the difference that makes. Football use to be a 6 month thing, now schools/ clubs have access to those indoor facilities to play and train football all year round. The indoor pitch can be split into 2 pitches (across the main pitch) and is used from 9am to 12pm each day in the cold weather.
All clubs are member owned, the land is provided by the municipality in trust, facilities are built on the land by the clubs, financed by club members/municipality. They just take the bank loan, build it and the rest falls into place. The Municipality is mandated to offer financial support (50 to 60%) to help build sports facilities etc for the people that live there.
The clubs organise their own summer coaching courses, the FA also provides coaches and some finance for the courses to train coaches. The quality of the coaching has radically changed in the last 6 years, it use to be dire, nowadays there is a cohesive strategy to coach football which is applied methodically to most every coaching course in every club. The result of all this is a radical transformation in way the game is played here. Not that Iceland will be getting to any Finals but at least they are losing while playing the 'right type' of football :) Though the u17's will be playing at the Euro finals later this summer.

Rugby team loses 60-0. Cricket team loses 2 wickets in first 3 balls this morning. Our football team is starting to look good by comparison today.

It's weeks like this I wish I was Argentinian.