Supporting two teams.

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04/09/2008, 1:07 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortezuma

Why on earth would anyone be attracted to watch a LOI football match if they had to sit beside snobs like you?

Reason number 4736 for not supporting domestic football.

Its the reason people cling to on here when every other crutch has been kicked out from under them.

And its a worthless reason.

Instead of talking about hypothetical people you might meet at games, why don't you listen to what people like Boovidge have just said about going to games?

But as many people have said it many threads like this to many similar posters like you, how can you know what it feels like to really be a supporter until you have immersed yourself in the club and are regularly going to games?

Until you've experienced it, you're only guessing and hypothesising.
04/09/2008, 1:09 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by belfastred

Where are you from Cortezuma if you don't mind me asking?

His profile says Dublin; obviously it's hard to find a club close by you in Dublin...
04/09/2008, 1:16 PM
belfastred

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

His profile says Dublin; obviously it's hard to find a club close by you in Dublin...

Well if he is from Dublin he obviously made the choice to ignore local football and support Everton.

You didn't happen to start following them in the mid eighties by any chance?
04/09/2008, 1:18 PM
Cortezuma

Well, in the case of me not being able to start supporting a new club here, it's not a matter of who is right or wrong. I would find it hard to hold my interest if the standard of the football was not good enough, and If I go to LOI matches and don't enjoy the game for this reason then of course I am not going to feel an affinity with whichever club I am watching. You went to Pats and it was great, fine I am genuinely happy for you, but I have gone to Pats and other clubs and I didn't find it great. Don't you see this is a matter of opinion and what some people, not particularly you, on here are looking for is blind faith based purely on the location of the ground and my nationality.

Also I get your point Dodge, that it may not mean as much to me as a local Everton/Barca fan, but the fact is it means a LOT to me. That will do. So do you want to start dividing up the supporters at each match into the ones born around the corner going to every match and the ones in all the other groups - including new fans, occasional fans, gloryhunter supporters. Maybe we should do a points system, in which I will agree I come into the second group of fans who have supported a long time and go as much as they can. And I have read the Jimmy Burns book, but I don't see why it matters that I can't feel it as much as Catalans when I do get a lot of enjoyment from it and plenty of Catalans allow me to join in their enjoyment of the game at it's highest level.
04/09/2008, 1:21 PM
Cortezuma

I'm not from Dublin, I live in Dublin currently. And okay I take back my comment about Dodge, it was purely based on his attitude in here and of course I realise that I wouldn't, and haven't, experience this at LOI matches.

I did not grow up in Dublin, did not grow up near any LOI club so therefore had no reason to be attached to any of them.
04/09/2008, 1:32 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortezuma

Also I get your point Dodge, that it may not mean as much to me as a local Everton/Barca fan, but the fact is it means a LOT to me. That will do.

As I said (a few times now), if you're happy with not getting the full experience, fine.

Quote:

And I have read the Jimmy Burns book, but I don't see why it matters that I can't feel it as much as Catalans when I do get a lot of enjoyment from it and plenty of Catalans allow me to join in their enjoyment of the game at it's highest level.

Again, if you're happy with that fine. As I've said I too enjoy watching Barcelona play, and try head over there when possible (provided I don't miss Pats games obviously).

Never have I said people couldn't get enjoyment from watching foreign teams. What I've consistently said, and it seems you now agree with me, is that you can't get full range of emotions that being a fan of your local club can bring.

I don't care about people who don't go to games in Ireland. Sure I'd love them to come to the games, and help Irish football develop but its not going to happen. If its not the cost (despite paying more on Sky Sports per month), or the crap football (explained previously) or the distance from the ground (despite picking a team in another country to suuport), its now the fault of a few internet idiots that they won't support an Irish team.

Good luck to them.
04/09/2008, 1:33 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortezuma

I did not grow up in Dublin, did not grow up near any LOI club so therefore had no reason to be attached to any of them.

Without being flippant, did you grow up beside Everton's ground?
04/09/2008, 1:44 PM
belfastred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Without being flippant, did you grow up beside Everton's ground?

I suspect (until told otherwise) that Everton were a successful team in the mid to late eighties and he chose them for that reason.

I could be wrong
04/09/2008, 1:50 PM
Cortezuma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Without being flippant, did you grow up beside Everton's ground?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Without being flippant, did you grow up beside Everton's ground?

...but you are being flippant, and also conveniently forgetting my other posts. I was 7 yrs old and I am not going to claim that any decision made at that age for supporting a team was a sound decision, it couldve been the colour of the shirt. The fact is it stuck with me because that is what most people do, they continue to support who they supported when they were young.

You are throwing this 'full experience' thing around as if too say we are all better than the rest, and of course it is irritating to people who otherwise spend most of their waking life immersed in football. You just happen to be lucky that you grew up beside the club and were brought by your dad. You get this magical 'full experience' because of where you live and have lived for a length of time. There are plenty of Pats/Cork/Galway supporters who live abroad and can't see their teams or maybe never did get to see them regularly but you cannot say they are not supporters.

By your reasoning would you accept a supporter who starts supporting your team late at 20 or so and goes to games for say 6 years, but cannot go to all the games? Are they getting the full experience?

I admire your passion for your clubs guys, and your wish to see this league succeed, but lay off on the generalisation of people who support a team that you deem not to be suitable. Yes there are the worst example of people who have never seen their team play and only watch football on TV, but stop shouting down everyone who disagrees with you and sticking them in the same bracket. (and I don't mean you Dodge)
04/09/2008, 1:53 PM
belfastred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortezuma

...but you are being flippant, and also conveniently forgetting my other posts. I was 7 yrs old and I am not going to claim that any decision made at that age for supporting a team was a sound decision, it couldve been the colour of the shirt. The fact is it stuck with me because that is what most people do, they continue to support who they supported when they were young.

You are throwing this 'full experience' thing around as if too say we are all better than the rest, and of course it is irritating to people who otherwise spend most of their waking life immersed in football. You just happen to be lucky that you grew up beside the club and were brought by your dad. You get this magical 'full experience' because of where you live and have lived for a length of time. There are plenty of Pats/Cork/Galway supporters who live abroad and can't see their teams or maybe never did get to see them regularly but you cannot say they are not supporters.

By your reasoning would you accept a supporter who starts supporting your team late at 20 or so and goes to games for say 6 years, but cannot go to all the games? Are they getting the full experience?

I admire your passion for your clubs guys, and your wish to see this league succeed, but lay off on the generalisation of people who support a team that you deem not to be suitable. Yes there are the worst example of people who have never seen their team play and only watch football on TV, but stop shouting down everyone who disagrees with you and sticking them in the same bracket. (and I don't mean you Dodge)

If the standard (difficult to measure IMO) of football was better would you attend LOI games?
04/09/2008, 1:58 PM
Cortezuma

Yes basically. I have been to quite a few over the years and always, apart from some individual performances - Joe Gamble a couple of years back springs to mind, the standard has been poor and I have not come away impressed. I'm not looking to put it down, I am just saying what I've seen. I haven't seen a match that has made me go back of my own volition soon after.
04/09/2008, 2:14 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortezuma

I am not going to claim that any decision made at that age for supporting a team was a sound decision, it couldve been the colour of the shirt. The fact is it stuck with me because that is what most people do

Worldwide, most people don't pick their team. They certainly don't pick their team based on shirt colouor (and yeah, I know you were joking)

Quote:

You are throwing this 'full experience' thing around as if too say we are all better than the rest, and of course it is irritating to people who otherwise spend most of their waking life immersed in football.

It irritates people because they have no answer to it. They know that I'm right. You, yourself have agreed with me.

Quote:

There are plenty of Pats/Cork/Galway supporters who live abroad and can't see their teams or maybe never did get to see them regularly but you cannot say they are not supporters.

There's a world of difference from people from Dublin, Cork, Galway (or Liverpool or Barcelona) being abroad and continuing to suuport their team, and somebody from Dublin randomly picking a team in another country and claiming allegiance.

Quote:

By your reasoning would you accept a supporter who starts supporting your team late at 20 or so and goes to games for say 6 years, but cannot go to all the games? Are they getting the full experience?

Fans with more experience of heartbreak within the club, are obviously going to get more satisfaction from the highs.

Quote:

I admire your passion for your clubs guys, and your wish to see this league succeed, but lay off on the generalisation of people who support a team that you deem not to be suitable. Yes there are the worst example of people who have never seen their team play and only watch football on TV, but stop shouting down everyone who disagrees with you and sticking them in the same bracket. (and I don't mean you Dodge)

But thats not a LOI fan thing, thats a people thing. Most people generalise. I couldn't tell you how many times I've been called a weirdo for supporting an Irish side. I don't automatically assume that every Liverpool/man U fan thinsk the same.
04/09/2008, 2:26 PM
belfastred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortezuma

Yes basically. I have been to quite a few over the years and always, apart from some individual performances - Joe Gamble a couple of years back springs to mind, the standard has been poor and I have not come away impressed. I'm not looking to put it down, I am just saying what I've seen. I haven't seen a match that has made me go back of my own volition soon after.

Fair enough - However it's a chicken and egg situation if the crowds come back the standard will improve.
04/09/2008, 2:28 PM
Cortezuma

''There's a world of difference from people from Dublin, Cork, Galway (or Liverpool or Barcelona) being abroad and continuing to suuport their team, and somebody from Dublin randomly picking a team in another country and claiming allegiance.''

You are kidding yourself if you think the only true supporters of clubs are the ones from that city who grew up there. There are so many different stories and reasons that people end up in the ground of any club, and to belittle many peoples enjoyment of the game because they weren't lucky enough to be born there is pointless.

I didn't grow up near an LOI club so why do you suggest I choose a club in a town somewhere I don't know over a club who I got to see on TV and eventually live. So as a kid, it's zero exposure versus lots of exposure, so your argument is still coming back to being lucky to be born near a club to get this 'full experience'.When I moved to Dublin, yes I was closer to LOI clubs, but by then I was already an Everton/Barca supporter and when I did try out the LOI I didn't take to it.
04/09/2008, 2:31 PM
belfastred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortezuma

''There's a world of difference from people from Dublin, Cork, Galway (or Liverpool or Barcelona) being abroad and continuing to suuport their team, and somebody from Dublin randomly picking a team in another country and claiming allegiance.''

You are kidding yourself if you think the only true supporters of clubs are the ones from that city who grew up there. There are so many different stories and reasons that people end up in the ground of any club, and to belittle many peoples enjoyment of the game because they weren't lucky enough to be born there is pointless.

I didn't grow up near an LOI club so why do you suggest I choose a club in a town somewhere I don't know over a club who I got to see on TV and eventually live. So as a kid, it's zero exposure versus lots of exposure, so your argument is still coming back to being lucky to be born near a club to get this 'full experience'.When I moved to Dublin, yes I was closer to LOI clubs, but by then I was already an Everton/Barca supporter and when I did try out the LOI I didn't take to it.

Where did you grow up?
04/09/2008, 2:35 PM
Cortezuma

I dunno why, but I didn't really want to give my home town out or anything, but if you need this to continue your argument. I grew up in South Kildare, near enough to Carlow town. LOI was pretty much an unknown to me until i was in my late teens. Trips to Dublin were maybe twice a year for shopping and that would be about it. When I first moved away I was in Wexford, then a year in Limerick which I hated. Caught a couple of games there. Since then I have been in Dublin apart from a few spells abroad. Does this help complete my profile BR? ;)
04/09/2008, 2:36 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortezuma

You are kidding yourself if you think the only true supporters of clubs are the ones from that city who grew up there.

I never said this. The true supporters of any team are people who go every week to watch them. Obviously local fans have more of an attachment

Quote:

I didn't grow up near an LOI club so why do you suggest I choose a club in a town somewhere I don't know over a club who I got to see on TV and eventually live.

I never suggested you should pick a team. I just said you're can't get as much enjoyment about seeing Everton do well as an Everton fan from Liverpool who attends every week.

You don't "get" the whole Irish football fan thing, and you're happy with watching the games on TV and the odd trip away, so why do you care what I, or any other fan of an irish team, think about you? (and you obviously do, given the defensive manner of your last couple of posts)
04/09/2008, 2:39 PM
belfastred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortezuma

I dunno why, but I didn't really want to give my home town out or anything, but if you need this to continue your argument. I grew up in South Kildare, near enough to Carlow town. LOI was pretty much an unknown to me until i was in my late teens. Trips to Dublin were maybe twice a year for shopping and that would be about it. When I first moved away I was in Wexford, then a year in Limerick which I hated. Caught a couple of games there. Since then I have been in Dublin apart from a few spells abroad. Does this help complete my profile BR? ;)

Yes :)

Profile = Gloryhunter :D
04/09/2008, 3:15 PM
Cortezuma

Quote:

Originally Posted by belfastred

Yes :)

Profile = Gloryhunter :D

well if I was hunting for glory, I'm still bloody hunting with Everton! ;)
04/09/2008, 3:19 PM
belfastred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortezuma

well if I was hunting for glory, I'm still bloody hunting with Everton! ;)

Stuck with them more like!

No I was saying when you started supporting them they were one of the top teams

Fair play to you for sticking by them

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