Going forward, that's no longer an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
They all have that option - from Day 1.
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Going forward, that's no longer an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
They all have that option - from Day 1.
In a nutshell.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastTerracer
And, of course, if the player choosing the FAI changes his mind for whatever reason, he can switch to the IFA, if he wishes.
To SolitudeRed.
You asked me on the James McClean thread:
"NotBrazil on your suggestions for some sort of voluntary agreement based on the age of 18 etc do you think it would be acceptable for all NI fans for a player who had declared for the FAI to return to the IFA?"
I felt the question more suitable to this thread.
I'm not advocating any "voluntary agreement'' - I'm suggesting a selection procedure that the IFA could utilise from Under 19 upwards.
In dealing with the substance of your question, the player wouldn't be "returning" to the IFA - he would be switching to the IFA, having chased his dream with the FAI. I'm ignoring Under 18 and younger.
I can't answer for all Northern Ireland fans, but, on reflection, I guess it's not dissimilar to a young English player chasing his dream with England, realising he's not going to make it, and switching to Northern Ireland on account of his eligibility in order to have a senior International career.
I would advocate that such a switch from the FAI to the IFA would have to be player driven ie. it would be entirely up to the player to instigate contact with the IFA.
On balance, I'd give such a player a chance to prove his worth.
No your posts are not humouring, they are boring me. Alex Bruce, Shane Lowry and Stephen Ireland are examples of players who made decisions in relation to their national careers in their own time and should be respected for it. Th last thing I would want to see are players who indicate regret of their choice of association when their careers end, examples - Mark Lawrenson and Martin Keown. The continued mention of age on here is what I take issue with in terms of decision making.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Did Lawrenson or Keown say they regretted their choice? I think both have said they were happy to have chosen their respective countries. Kevin Gallen would be an example of a player who'd regretted choosing England.
Of course, the indication of prefered career path at age 18, is reversible, if the player later regrets his choice of Association.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
The beauty of switching.
True - though more accurately he regretted not securing a career with England. Only then did he show regret.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I don't think so. I thought Gallen was convinced to play for England because it would make him a more valuable asset to the club.
there was a rumour at the time that NI man Alan MacDonald who was club captain at QPR at the time was very persuasive in the career of Gallen Sr and took every opportunity to "dissuade" him from throwing his lot in with us. As i said, just a rumour but somewhat believable all the same.
Terrible article here: http://irishecho.com/?p=69482
I can't believe the use of the term "magpie" to describe the FAI.
Here's a snippet:Quote:
there is something troubling about McLean’s emergence. It’s not that his raw talent doesn’t bode well for the future. Or that he looks like he may become the type of player who could be pivotal to the Republic’s campaigns over the next decade. It’s about his background. Here is a player whose development as a footballer had very little if anything to do with the FAI. They may well give him an FAI blazer this summer but it won’t change the fact he was born and bred under the auspices of the IFA.
And there was me thinking Derry City had played some sort of role in his development! Turns out it was those 3 or so appearance for Northern Ireland underage teams that made his entire career happen.
Jeez if they can work that kind of wonders in three games we will have to let more of our young players avail of their magic !Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
That could be the worst one yet. It's the kind of article both foot.ie and OWC could almost come together in shared disdain about. Cross-community awfulness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
I also feel the article might have a little more weight if they'd spelled his name correctly at any point.
The post was made to humour your prattle about player welfare, not to provide you with a laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
However, given your recent contributions to this thread I can't say that your confusion surprises me.
I know, that's just fowl!Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Especially as my own pal, sports editor of the Irish Post at the time who went to interview him (and the brother) at the family homestead, said his own family jokily referred to him then as 'The Brit'...Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
So why have it at all in the first place?? A complete orange, or even green, herring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
mQuote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
I was just meeting cynicism with cynicism. The length of your post indicated a condescending attitude and because of its its sheer length, it bored me. I think you need to accept cynicism works both ways!.
In relation to Keown, he came from a very close knit Irish community in Oxford. He got called up for England at the age of 16 and after realised that it meant he could not then play for the country he really wanted play for - Ireland. He admitted after his career ended that he had made a mistake and he felt he had let his family down and the Irish community in Oxford. .
On Lawrenson, he has definitely said that England was his first choice, but when Ireland came calling, he came on board. It was only when he realised that he was pretty good that doubts about his choice set in. I will try to find articles on this, but don't have the time at the moment!
My pal's cousin is related to Keown by marriage and said pal, a lifelong Irish Gooner, reckons Keown always 'turned his back' on Ireland for reasons best known to himself!
Lawrenson is no surprise, but he like anyone should be able to choose at any age, even if it means England....which is far more likely to majorly affect us than any odd pedantic Unionist.
I have tried to find a link for my comments above and so far I have failed! I do remember reading about Keown's regrets possibly in the Indo, but until I can find it, it remains for everyone else just conjecture and I accept that. If I am wrong I apologise too!Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Will be interested to see those articles - never heard that about Lawrenson before. I know Michael Robinson openly said (in Paul Rowan's book "The Team that Jack Built") that he didn't have much love for Ireland but that it was a good career move. My own impression is that Lawrenson was always very happy with his choice once he'd made it. However he does annoy the bejesus out of us when he gets his us and them mixed up covering England games.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
my impression is the same ET. All i ever remember him saying is that he considered himself both Irish and English but grew up supporting England or something along those lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastTerracer
Keown came from a Irish family who had big connections with the GAA in London. He played GAA regularly as a kid over there.
I think you have the story totally twisted. Keown was not tied to England at the age of 16Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
Afaia, Keown has stated on a few occasions that he and his family regarded it as an honour for him to play for England and it was their way to return something to their adopted country.
Lawro most probably would have followed England path if they had picked him, but after he got to play for Ireland he had no regrets about it even if he was obviously good enough for England.
Keown was on TV3 before as a pundit for a European game, and was asked did he ever consider playing for Ireland. He said that both his parents emigrated from Ireland and his Dad encouraged him to play for England, as a way of giving back to the country that had given them a place to live, work, etcQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
<EDIT>
Posted this in the Jamie O'Hara thread at the time, and mentioned it in this thread last April - http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligib...=1#post1476613
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Here are Nigel Dodds' actual words, by the way:
“The issue of player eligibility has been around since FIFA’s ruling which allowed players to choose between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Action should now be taken to stop the haemorrhaging of talent from Northern Ireland.
The British and Irish Governments should now work to address this injustice which sees footballing talent developed in Northern Ireland, at some considerable cost, lost to compete at international level with the Republic’s team.
No one should be opposed to the idea of talks to resolve this issue, and there is a degree of irony about the demands for free eligibility. The creation of two international teams was brought about when the FAI split away from the Irish Football Association, and indeed the original restrictions of eligibility were introduced after complaints by the FAI after players had played for both teams.
The IFA put considerable resources into the development of players through the youth system, which is lost when players then declare for another association. In club football there are compensation arrangements in place in such circumstances when a player transfers to a different club, but obviously this isn’t possible in international competition.
There simply is no point in thoughtless calls for an all-Ireland team to resolve this issue as that is not going to happen. What is required are discussions at a higher levels between the British and Irish Government as well as a recognition by FIFA that the current situation isn’t sustainable and a change is required to bring an end to this ongoing problem.”
As there is an All-Ireland team in many sports in Ireland then why must this option be completly ruled out in soccer. The aspiration for a United Ireland team is as legitimate an aspiration as is Nigel Dodds aspiration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
I do not believe that there will be a United Ireland team in the near future but neither do I believe that there is any chance of moving to Nigel Dodds position.
Therefore we have gridlock/impasse and we may as well continue with the Status Quo.
In the language of FIFA (French I think) C'est La Vie Nigel !.
Nigel Dodds is a cretin, who makes even IKP look like a statesman...
I believe geysir is correct on both Keown and Lawrenson. I was sure I'd read Lawrenson expressed a preference for England but after researching it I think I'd just picked it up from posts on here. Like a lot of dual-nationals, Keown and Lawrenson have genuinely split loyalties. We have to get away from the idea of defining Irishness in opposition to Englishness.
Also Nigel Dodds' comments are bizarre. If there's one thing FIFA does well, it's keeping governments from interfering in football matters. I'd be delighted if these nimrods tried to involve themselves in the work of the IFA/FAI and felt the full force of Sepp Blatter's foot stomp.
And if you can't get enough of it on here....
http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/02/09/...ge-1/#comments
While I remain convinced that I have read somewhere that Keown has shown regret, that or I am going mad ( which some of you might already think) further research has not helped me produce any substantiation of my claims, only other reasons as to why he played for England. Two reasons put forward as to why he played for England is that due to Britain providing his family with work and a living, Keown's father felt they needed to show a commitment to the country where they lived. A second reason I read was that due to the Troubles, they felt it was safer for him to represent England. Therefore, I got it wrong!
Just on Geysir's point above, my comments about Keown representing England at 16 has been misunderstood. I was referring to him picking one association over the other and his first commitment to England came when he represented England's U16s. When he subsequently represented them at U18 he could not then change countries again under the then FIFA rules. I may have not made this particularly clear.
Just thought this was worth mentioning - it seems Keown's son is playing for Reading U18s and from the very limited info I could pick up, it seems another website has highlighted him as a possible recruit -thanks OWC!
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-16116052.html
Interesting to note here that McClean regrets representing the north at underage. It's fairly transparent at this stage that had there been a structure in place to facilitate the realization McClean's wish to represent the Republic then he would have availed of it. I think that should be the goal, but any action of the FAI's part to facilitate this will most likely get branded as poaching.
There was a structure in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
It begs the question why did he not avail of it?
I urge players minded like James in future to avoid regretting playing for Northern Ireland - by not playing for Northern Ireland, and allowing their place to be taken by players who will cherish the opportunity.
Most Northern Ireland fans will share James's regret.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
What was the structure and to what extent would it accommodate someone with McClean's circumstances?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
I think the issue is because the framework leans in the FAI's favour (and rightly so both arguably and to an extent) then any proactive approach that would be taken would be seen as poaching. With people in FAI circles most likely aware of McClean's background, had any action been taken on their behalf and the option presented to him of representing the association he preferred and thus removing him from the IFA's underage selections then the outcome would have been more favourable, in retrospect. But now that he's declared for the Republic, it's a case of "good riddance" but had he been approached by the FAI and stayed on with the IFA it would have been a case of "hands off".
Has there been any official response regarding the acceptance of this apology? I'm all for it. Sure which one of us hasn't done something utterly daft in our youth.Quote:
Originally Posted by James McClean
All he had to do was contact the FAI...that "structure" has been in place for well over a decade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Because it would deny choice - there is an "All-Ireland" team, so please respect the choice of those, born on the Island, who don't wish to play for it, and whose choice it is to represent Northern Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
"Other Sports" are irrelevant.