Now that is a horrible image for me to hold onto before bedtime, oh no!Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
Now that is a horrible image for me to hold onto before bedtime, oh no!Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
Maybe somebody can find that picture of the Cork fans in the pub that was doing the rounds a while back...Quote:
Originally Posted by weecountyman
My point is though, they have no real knowledge of what this consortium is going to bring to the table. They have learned nothing and are willing to forget all that went before in order to secure PD football for Cork City.
The way this is going to be rushed through leaves little doubt in my mind that thay will be up sh!t creek again in no time.
I cant believe there is one City fan thinking that this is just. I am ashamed.
For the record, dont agree with the bashing of the consortium or FORAS
I am starting to feel that with the new Cork City FORAS co-op site dat a FORAS run side in the 1st division is more likely than 1 in the premier under the consortium. It would be a complete joke on the FAI's part if we were awarded a premier division licence imo after the mess that are club is in .
Interesting post from political rebel on the Cork forum, which I hope he doesn't mind me quoting on here. Seems like Tom is definitely playing games.
Quote:
Long frustrating day banging my head off a brick wall does not even start to describe the day I and other BoM members have put down....8 ******* hours sitting around tryin to get this deal done...
Brinkmanship is a word often used when describing TNB but today that term was brought to a whole new level...
TNB signs a share purchase agreement and I honestly think he was under the impression we would all get down on bended knee and start thanking him...Did he actually think we would sign it straight away without due diligence?...Does he think FORAS are some brain dead group of supporters who can be hoodwinked by his theatrics?...
There was no way we were signing that agreement unless we verified the list of creditors presented to us...8 hours waiting for a club representative to attend the meeting so we could start verifying the creditors list and no one turns up despite the person telling us he was on the way!...
Tommy played chicken today and thought we would blink first...I think it is safe to say he got his answer and can be under no illusion now that this deal is not going through unless CCIFL start co-operating and sit down and discuss the issues we need clarified...
Ball is in your court again Tom me old chum!...
Farcical
This is all tom coughlan, we have tried to do everything to get him to act quicker. He is finally giving in, though I'm sure there will be twists yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSFShels
The new owners, Mr. Gray, Mr. O'Connell and FORAS never wanted it to come to this, FORAS especially have done everything in our power first of all to keep the club afloat and in recent times to get Tom Coughlan out.
We will now be in a position where no budgets can be agreed without our say so, this will not happen again. We're not even going to be any good this season! Its going to be a massive relegation struggle!
Pay a bit more attention will you, the mad fecker is only getting �100. No more, no less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
My heart bleeds for ye...Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
Other clubs have stuck to the rules and barely survived relegation. It's called living within your means.
What a crowd of idiots FORAS really are. If you lot had spent less time constructing web sites on which to spout your condescending rubbish and more time trying to figure out what Coughlan was doing, maybe he wouldn't have ran rings around you for so long.
Best of luck with the new consortium. I'm sure FORAS have it well researched.
I know no other way to protest. I will return my season ticket with a letter that can be passed on to abbotstown, or binned. It's up to ATFC what they do with it. At the moment is is not sport becuase not every team has the equal chance when there is human interference. It's called cheating in other codes.Quote:
Fr Damo what has Athlone Town got to do with the muddle Cork are in? Why stop paying due to people who are in their own little 'Republic'?
In it's current guise this league is all but finished imo and needs a radical change. FYI, I'm all for a 16 team top division and reginal non league divisions like they have in england, Blue sq north, blue sq south etc etc.
I must apologise to fans of all other clubs. The "Independent" licensing committee bottled it.
I'm so sick of it all at this stage, give Tom the money to pay the taxman but deny him a licence and let him rot in hell.
I'm worried if Tom gets the Long money that the taxman won't see it.
I'm not a violent man but I'm also worried that if I meet Coughlan face to face that I won't be able to control myself.
From a United point of view, this sickens me as other posters have said. We tried to stay within the rules, had to sell half our squad (the likes of Gary Deegan and Regi Nooitmeer) midseason in 2008 to get costs down and come under the 65% cap, and then this kind of thing happens with the FAI, Licensing Committee and Cork City? Joke, utter joke, I mean, why do we bother . . . .
There was sufficient money in a bank account yesterday morning [controlled by the Solicitor's representing FORAS, Gray and O'Connell] to pay the revenue bill at 11.00am and satisfy all outstanding footballing debts ahead of lunchtime if Coughlan had engaged with the negotiations and played ball. He chose to ignore all that and stick his brass neck out, no one chose to chop.
Coughlan and his solicitors got an offer at 6pm Friday, meetings were requested throughout the weekend by the consortium solicitors and no-one from Coughlan's side made themselves available until yesterday morning. The revenue could have gotten a winding up order yesterday, a licence could [and let's face it, should] have been denied later in the day. None of that had to be the situation, more brinkmanship by Coughlan, dragging it out to the death and leaving a mess of crap all around him. The timing is a bitch, but I do believe that the people on the licencing committee did look, as the statement said, on limiting the chances of the creditors getting burned by a football club, but they equally need to look at the others who are burned and will be burned by the action.
Bray are victims here and it could affect them into next season as, if they decide they may need a stronger squad for a Premier Division challenge, the decision to bump them up would only come next Monday, as the registration deadline for players closes. That could well affect the through the season.
I know what fans of other clubs are saying and I can't/won't disagree or defend.
If the positions held by Bray and Cork City FC were reversed, I'd be absolutely furious.
All I'm feeling this morning though is completely numb.
I feared this may happen, everything wasn't going to run smoothly but for these lowlifes not to even engage FORAS is despicable.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
PR said it the other night that the only way we can buy the club is if Tom is willing to sell and i'm not sure he is.
Seems like he is so desperate to get a few bob for himself that he's willing to risk it going under rather than see it saved now.
I may be missing something, but admidst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, didn't Celdrog provide the closest to an "answer" as to why the Licensing Committee deferred their decision (a quote from the Licensing Manual that allowed for deferral where a particular issue was sub judice).
Clearly if natural justice, fairness and equality ruled, TNB would have tarred and feathered a long time ago, BUT it is standard practice, where something is sub judice, for an administrative process to defer decisioning until the legal process has run its course. You may not like it, but it is the way things work in most areas, not just sports. Administrative rules are subservient to the law and everyone has a right to due process, no matter how repulsive their actions are (i.e. Tom).
This thread is full of experts on the Licensing process many of whom I guarantee couldn't find the Licensing manual, never mind profess to know it. I've known people who've sat on the Independent Licensing Committee and they are that, independent professionals who have nothing to gain by fudging or taking a decision that favours one party or another.
They broke plenty of rules that weren't sub judice such as the 65% rule "automatic relegation" according to Padraig Smith. There's also no getting around the fact that they've overdue payments to employees. Again a Licence breaker. There's more than enough there to punish them without taking the tax bill into consideration including their disregard for all deadlines.
We had a fair idea what Coughlan was doing. I think you will find it's the FAI that let us down. We all had a feeling that Coughlan would dick around on the last day, but we had some bit of faith after all the ****e that the FAI have splurted at us that they could come down on Coughlan and come down hard and also that the licensing committee uninfluenced by the FAI. Here is where the blame lies. Coughlan for committing the crimes, the FAI for being too pathetic to police him. FORAS and the consortium spent all yesterday being lied to about accounts and books that we have been trying to get off of TNB for over 12 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
I had stated in a previous post that there was still plenty of time to sign players up if we were offered a place in the Premier but I didn’t realise the transfer window shuts on Monday… Now I’m beyond angry knowing this.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
If we are offered a place in the Premier Division, the FAI have but no other option to extend the transfer deadline for us. At present we do not have a budget to bring in new players but playing in the Premier will give us a lot of extra revenue to play around with and be able to bring in more experienced players. Only finding out on Monday that we are playing in the Premier Division is just not good enough and then finding out the window is closed and that we can't sign any players because of their own stupidity. Nothing shocks me anymore when talking about the FAI.
Would you think that the suggestion that the decision has been deferred as a way to ensure Revenue gets paid is way out?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I think most people on here think that the Licensing committee deferring their decision means that Cork will eventually get a PD licence.
I honestly don't think they will myself. After the deferral I expect their application for a PD licence to be rejected, even if that means any proposed takeover falls through and Cork effectively fold. FORAS will get their licence and football in Cork will live on.
If that was the reason for the decision on licence being deferred, they'd have clearly stated that.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Instead the press release spoke about the takeover.
Great post. I haven't read the licensing manual but I'd expect that there are many such loopholes and get outs in it. Should the consortium succeed then I'm fully sure the new Cork City will be punished but it will be less than what most LoI fans will want. For the record, I agree that a premier license should not be awarded, but I'm pretty sure that it can be fudged perfectly legitimately within the rules. And while I don't doubt the independence of the licensing committee I'm sure that advice from the FAI would be considered.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
But as a Foras member my over-riding duty is to the saving of my club. If the club gets a premier license the consortium takes over. If not Foras runs a club in the first. There may be further penalties and conditions but to be honest that's up to the FAI's licensing process.
Unlike most people on here, I honestly don't profess to know what will happen.
To me its clear there is an incentive for the FAI to ensure there is a team in the League from Cork city (small c), in some way shape or form. Thats not in doubt.
That said, I'm not at all clear there is any incentive whatsoever for the INDEPENDENT licensing authority to fudge it. They have all professional reputations and are presumably getting paid a relatively small amount, therefore there is almost no upside and a huge potential downside (their reputation) to them not following the process.
Anyone who says they know what'll happen here is lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Even on the Cork forum, there's a post at 9am this morning saying the documents for the due diligence haven't arrived.
I do think though that you're overstating how independent the ILC are, and how little people outside the LoI care what happens. I can't imagine many people getting a new accountant because their current one, Mr P Smith, gave Cork a licence. I was also amused by how many times the word "Independent" appears in FAI press releases (think the acronym is rarely used because we have to know the Independent Licencing Committee is Independent)
If the window closes on Monday, Cork are screwed anyway with hardly any players signed (at least until the mid-season transfer window anyway). It seems possible that the best thing for FORAS to do is to withdraw from the takeover, accept a First Division licence from the FAI and spend the coming week trying to put together some sort of competitive team.
If they were following their own process they shouldn't be taking into account a takeover that may or may not happen in the future. It's been said many times by those involved in the process when seeking to justify their decisions that the Licence is almost a snapshot of how a club's affairs look on a particular date and they can only go on what's submitted.
The consortium seem to me to be chancing their arm here and playing the kinda games that TNB has been playing ... cant blaim them for chancing their arm but it is a bit cheeky!Quote:
Originally Posted by derm
In my opinion, I think the long term future of CCFC would best be served by a spell in the first division under the control of Foras where they can rebuild properly from scratch.
bhs
Fair point ORA, but the licensing committee, are basically only there to rubber stamp the FAI's decision. The FAI informed clubs last week of their "likely" verdict, and AFAIK the licensing committee have not once gone against the FAI's "projection"
There's no point in taking over the debts if no license is to awarded, and it appears that the license application is failing on the financial side; so insisting on a premier license is more of a gun to Tom's head than the FAI imo, especially as a premier license is no guarantee of premier status.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholesun
As to what's best, the remaining time makes it difficult for either option. Team, sponsors, manager (?), coaches, training ground, pitch, etc etc will have to be found or renegotiated with, plus thousands of of other details that have yet to be thought of. In the premier there's a chance that the players that Shoddy has sniffing around may sign, they may not in the first. Given the amount to be done in such a short time I think it a real possibility that we could be fighting relegation in the first.
Derm your points above also apply to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by derm
ok maybe not on the manager/training ground end of things but certainly on the sponsors and players.
With our current squad we would be cannon fodder in the premier and we would need to sign about 6 decent players to be competitive in the premier. We cannot do this until we know what division we are playing in.
Also it is tough securing sponsors at the best of times but I'm sure there are sponsors who would be happy to be on board if we were in the premier but less so if we are in the first.
So why isn't the takeover pending the receipt of any licence? Why specify a Premier licence?Quote:
Originally Posted by derm
Its my understanding that we have been planning all along and budgeting for first division football, the club was always going to get a premier licence but of course that doesnt qualify you to play in the premier divison. Its galling the situation that presents itself that the governing body cant make a deadline and stick to it and it make a mockery of not only the licencing process but of the league in general. The fai were applaueded for the way they handled the Derry contracts but have again lost a good chunk of credibility with these last few weeks have panned out. There has been little if any communication from them (presume that clubs were being kept up to date unoffically).
Why don't FORAS just bring the whole farce to an end now - withdraw their support from the existing CCFC on the grounds of the ongoing impasse, let it collapse, and then start afresh in the Firs Division with a democratic fan-owned club ?
Yes - it may mean creditors not getting honoured, but there's a strong possibility of that not happening anyway with the current never-ending brinkmanship saga, so what's the deifference ? Plus - the 'new' Cork City could do what the new DCFC did and voluntarily seek to honour some of the old club's financial commitments anyway.
As for European football - the club will be a shell if it gets that far, so is in danger of putting in a 1980's LOI performance anyway.
I know the usual heads will whinge about what happened about City, but at least what happened to our club happened quickly and everyone was able to move on. The Cork farce was already months old when our problems came out, and months later the zombie corpse is still staggering on headless whilst our situation is long sorted.
#Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
FORAS board of management can't withdraw without a mandate from the FORAS members. The mandate the b.o.m. was gven last Friday night to ener into a consortium wih O'Connel and Grey still stands.
Seems like your spitting the dummy unless you get prem football , a guy over on btid kinda sums up th foras attitude when he said
Quote:
Because it would make no sense whatsoever to buy a club that's not guaranteed a Premier Division licence, when we could take up our First Division licence, without the added debt.
That throws up more questons than it answers though to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by yiddo
- What mandate from the members did the FORAS BoM have beforehand ? If none, why didn't they seek one earlier ? This has been going on for months.
- FORAS have had a league application in since approx November (?) so the possibility of setting-up a fan-run club has been live since then. Why hasn't it been progressed in the meantime from concept to reality ? It seems that FORAS have been hoping that everything would just work out with the current club, and the fan-run idea was only a doomsday scenario. Events have suggested it may have been better treated as a runner from the start.
- I'm sure the FORAS membership voted on whatever mandates were presented to them by the BoM. Therefore - whilst it's easy to say 'this is the membership mandate', I suspect it was a mandate that the BoM actively proposed/sought. If so - then it's their own mandate. If not - what were the circumstances behind that mandate ?
As I said, more questions than answers.
So it's all a gamble to keep Premier Division football ? Regardless of the damage being caused to the existing club in the pursuit of that aim ?Quote:
Originally Posted by kid creole
Derry City found a lot of new goodwill emerged locally once the old Wellvan club was killed-off. It would probably have been the same with a swift euthanasia of the old Cork and a focus on a new fan-run one. But it's difficult to think of any good that has come out of the saga of last few months for Cork City to be honest, and it's probably just alienated some natural goodwill locally.
the offer to join the consortium only came on Tuesday last week. On Friday night we voted on several other motions relating to the setting up of a foras run div 1 club but that option has always been a fallback position if the current club failed to get a licence. As for the BOMs position on the consortium just like the rest of the members some are in favour and some are against. I know of at least 2 who like me voted against it and would have prefered to go down the totally run supporters club in division 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Yiddo just out of interest are you in a position to give details on the percentage that voted in favour?Quote:
Originally Posted by yiddo
was sitting at the back of the room and thought it was slightly over 2 to 1 in favour.Quote:
Originally Posted by tippex
I would have said about the same. Perhaps a little more.Quote:
Originally Posted by yiddo
Cor city have broken more rules and deadlines than a pakistan traindriver this delay is nothing more than a attempt to keep cork in premier football and to ensure some creditors get there mone back i would not impune the integraty of the licence committe but i dont belkieve anything in abbotstown is independant.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
if this was any number of clubs other than the super six they would have been gone.
Previous mandates were to withdraw support for Coughlan and to apply for the first division licenceQuote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
-It was made very clear from the start that the FORAS licence application was a fallback. That said, all the work needed to get a licence and to be ready if granted the licence all still had to be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Weve never claimed otherwise than to hope it worked out for the current entity, that was always our number one aim, as per our rules.
Rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
When a proposal is put to the BOM it is then put to members.
The deal was presented to members in a completely unbiased way and explained by someone with a legal background.
Then a member of the BOM spoke for the deal and another member of the BOM spoke against.
The floor was open to discussion and that continued for hours.
In the end it was voted on and some of the BOM voted for, some against and some abstained, like all the other members.