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Why orange?Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
What has orange got to do with "non Catholic Christians"?
PS.
What is the President of the Republic Of Ireland playing at, hosting an annual 12th July reception at Aras an Uachtarain for this bigoted, sectarian organisation?
I can only think that she believes that "unity" means cherishing all the children of the nation - including those pesky unionist types.
How silly of her.
Ok, not that's there's any recognition, but Ireland have been in the play-offs for most Finals at the least, up to '04, whereas the North have been sh*te for at least double than period. Even Dan Quayle could work that one out....Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Except, if they were willing ,the FAI could pick 11 uncapped Prods/ 'unionists' for the Irish soccer team.Quote:
If nothing else, both FAs are limited by the practicality of there being only 11 places in any given football team.
The paranoid IFA wouldn't do!
Yes, except for the people you refer to are 95% Irish born, as in the parents.Quote:
Not everyone with exclusive or part-Irish ancestry rejects any other possible identity equally. Not that I'm discussing immigrants anyway, all the people I've mentioned have lived in Britain since birth.
Concentrate on the actual facts....and real people!!
Regardless of what McAleese does, everyone who's half-wise knows the OO operate from a fundamentally bigoted standpoint. But it's hardly news.
As for their relationship with the IFA, so what?? Not many take them especially seriously either.
What "relationship" is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You are funny!Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Sounds rather more paranoid, senor....
If your definition of "paranoid" is me praising a Belfast born and raised woman, President of the Republic of Ireland, for extending the hand of friendship to her fellow Irishmen and women who happen to be members of the Orange Order (and in so doing, demonstrating true republican principles, and a real spirit of reconciliation), then I suggest you need to revisit your myopic little dictionary.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Who is this President of the Republic of Ireland that you speak of? Would it be the President of Ireland, President McAleese? Surely you have been hanging around here long enough to know the proper name of the country you are cyber visiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
The 12th July happens to be the anniversary of the death of Douglas Hyde, the first President of Ireland, who was a Protestant. This year was the 150th Anniversary of his birth. Why wouldn't people from all over the island come and celebrate mark this occasion.
As regards the sectarian Orange Order - they sure as heck are not going to learn anything new marching up and down the Garvahy Road. They might learn a bit of tolerance & understanding down this neck of the wood so fair play to them for coming.
Strange that Irishmen like me cannot vote for who is the President Of Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by janeymac
Anyway, she must be paranoid.
"Now we must build a new culture of Both, each accepting that there are different perspectives and practices, each patient with the other as we get to know each other better in a growing spirit of understanding and outreach. It is possible to be both Irish and British, possible to be both Orange and Irish. We face into a landscape of new possibilities and understandings,"
AB will have a fit.:D
I'm surprised you find it strange - you can't vote for your British Head of State and you live in it! And amazingly, you have absolutely no say whatsoever on who your Prime Minister is.
Of course it is possible to be Orange and Irish - just because they are doesn't mean we have to tolerate the intolerance of the sectarian Orange Order.
Its quite clear they are 2 separate organisation, and although some individuals might be members of both organisations, there is absolutely no connection between the two organisations.
Now where have I heard that kind of explanation before?
Truth is though lads, if we want young working class unionist lads to declare for us, all this OO bashing has to stop. The OO needs to change, but it is making moves in the right direction, and its absolutely right that the state should recognise that. Mary was quite right to have them down on the 12th, and its high time July 12th was a holiday in the 26 counties, so as to allow that 20% to celebrate an important part of Irelands culture.
Denying that entrenches the division that will put unionist lads off declaring for us. If we set ourselves up as a non-bigoted alternative to that facebook page, we can become the default choice for the majority of unionists/protestants who just want a successful team and are more than happy watching the rugby team.
You may need an atlas before a dictionary, as there is no country called the 'Republic Of Ireland', at least get your facts right!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
MMcA is welcome to her thoughts and understanding. However, it is pure BS by her or anyone to say we have to 'appreciate' the Bigotfest of 12th July.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
To me it's nothing to do with Protestantism, but paranoid cretins dressing up to celebrate winning a battle from 320 years ago. As I said upthread, celebrate the 350th, 400th, 450th & 500th anniversaries and then forget about it, for say, 500 years.....
Ironically their Scots brethren aren't so obsessive about Bannockburn or the English re.Trafalgar, Waterloo or whatever. Or most other countries for that matter.
Why do the OO & co have to force their 'celebrations' on the native population??
That said, 'unionism' should be acknowledged by the Irish state, but given their attitude in power (given to them by the Brits) it's double standards for the former to expect their feelings to be immediately embraced.
Not going to get into a semantic debate about what a "large proportion" is, but the fact is a large majority of the current squad were born in Ireland, and your previous statement at the very least implied that wasn't the case. FYI, as far as I can tell, 4/22 of the current NI squad were born in England. I think you'd find similar scenarios in most international squads these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I don't speak for all of them - it was you who originally tried to do that. You might think it a bit odd, but the reality for many Irish people born and bred in Britain is that they don't feel British at all. What I say is based on a lot of personal experience of people in that situation - something like 10 cousins, for a start. I also lived there myself for some years, and while I was there I came into contact with a lot of English-born Irish people. I also regularly go to Ireland away games, and one thing that will strike anyone who does that is that a significant minority of Irish fans on those trips speak with English accents. I've become good friends with a number of them, and having been in their company watching England matches during the WC in Japan, I can tell you they have no affinity whatsoever for England!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Obviously there are also some people of Irish descent who were born in Britain and who feel a bit Irish and British, or even just British. However, you can't assume that is the case for all or even most people in that situation. I know for a fact that it isn't the case for many of them.
I understand why you might find that odd. I find it odd that some people born and bred in Ireland feel British! That's the reality though. In my opinion, both of these anomalies essentially have their roots in a long history of discrimination and conflict on these islands.
It's a shame isn't it? It's not for the want of trying on the part of Irish nationalists though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
What's also strange is that residents of the UK like you can't vote for any of the parties ever likely to form the govt of your country. And even more strange is that no-one can vote for who is the UK Head of State.
None of this changes the fact that Mary McAleese is officially the President of Ireland.
Finally a decision has been reached so now possibly we can draw a line under this whole charade until the IFA try to drag John Delaney in front of the Court of International Justice in the Hague for his crimes against humanity in his attempts to eradicate the Northern Irish football team and it's supporters from the face of the earth so he can gain some Lebensraum for his new FAI training camps.
How anyone could even imagine that CAS would come to any other outcome before this case was even brought to their attention baffles me to say the least.
I also see that much of the media and the numerous posts on this matter seem to regurgitate the fact that the GFA has brought about some dynamic change in NI society to enable players born in Northern Ireland to represent the Republic due to their entitlement to Irish citzenship but from my understanding people born in the North have always been entitled to Irish citzenship since partition and the GFA has made very little difference in this regard. Perhaps I'm mistaken on this matter and maybe someone more knowledgeable in this subject (geysir, lopez) can confirm if this was the case.
However while I agree with the decision I do feel genuine sorrow for the Northern Ireland supporters as I believe, as do many of them I'm sure, that as time goes on more and more players born in Northern Ireland may well choose to represent the Republic and this is likely to put a signifcant dent in the meagre resources available to them while increasing substantially the meagre resources available to us. It's unlikely that the successful Northern Ireland teams of the past would ever have qualified for finals tournaments if a handful of their better players had decided to turn out for the Republic so there may be a very real and justified fear that this ruling marks the end of any likelihood of returning to those glory days.
If we do benefit to the extent where we begin to qualify for more tournaments on a regular basis while Northern Ireland's team stagnates and suffers the effects of this player drain then it is also likely (imo) that this trickle could become a flood and you will see unionist players playing for the Republic on a regular basis within the not too distant future. It appears likely to me that many modern footballers would be likely to overlook their politicial inclinations for the chance to further their careers. An appearance in a World Cup or European Championships after all can do wonders for your paypacket.
Anyway I do feel some sympathy for the Northern Irish supporters as a whole and maybe we should be gracious in victory and a bit more empathetic to their plight even if the corrrect decision in our eyes has been reached.
YI, You want us to have sympathy for people who routinely refer to us as 'The beggars'. And worse. Hmm.
Individually most of them are capable of being tolerable, but their collective psyche re 'us' is often intolerable.
Their comments don't matter, ArdeeBhoy, they will most likely suffer greatly from this decision, and even allowing for the element among them (an element among all fans of national team) that decide to react to their anger with uneducated, prejudicial and immature remarks, I would still agree with youngirish that they deserve our sympathy for this reason.
If there is any "suffering" to be done, they brought a large part of it on themselves imo. The ruling by the CAS in essence changed nothing. Irish players from the North could always declare for the FAI. What the IFA have done over the last few years is to constantly bring this matter up despite them knowing full well that it was going to go nowhere. Have a read back at my post 1394.Quote:
Originally Posted by ped_ped
How true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
Sympathy is not something I feel towards the IFA and its supporters. The IFA knew full well back in 1999 that NI born players were eligible for the FAI teams. Indeed Jim Boyce was "extremely happy" at one point in time that the FAI agreed not to willingly pursue NI born players as Boyce knew there was nothing to stop these players lining out for the FAI. The IFA's actions there after are really quite pathetic and of very questionable motivation. Think back to the whole British passport malarky, how they hung Shane Duffy out the way they did, the whole Gibson affair and now bringing this all the way to CAS while faking any knowledge that they knew they couldn't win and seeking to hang another kid out who hadn't done anything wrong. As you have said before Mr Parker, all their actions regarding "the eligibility question" since Jim Boyce's period of extreme happiness have really sought to play up to NI's supporters and to make the FAI out to be the enemy.
I would distinguish between the IFA and the supporters of the Northern Ireland football team as I would also distinguish between the FAI and the supporters of our team. I don't have too much sympathy for the IFA, they've fanned the flames of this whole episode since the start. Some of the supporters I would have sympathy for as the quality of their team will inevitably suffer whilst ours will undoubtedly gain from this influx of talent. How much in the long run their team will suffer is hard to say at this point but I think it'll have long reaching effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
Within the next year or two we could easily have three Northern born players in our starting 11 that no doubt would have been regulars in the Northern Ireland team if they decided to play for them.