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Hilarious. Keane stepped over the ball, fooling a couple of defenders in the box who were watching him, and thus creating space for Ireland in the box to have a pop. How is that not making a goal?Quote:
Originally Posted by btid1
Kilbane did indeed supply the cross.
in fairness i will admit calling him a disgrace was strectching it a bit - so i do retract that remark - apologies to all keane fans
its just my pure frustration at knowing the type of player he can and not seeing him perform.
i realise we dont have the same players as we did back in 2002 - but its his lazy not bothered attitude in some of the games that just infuriates me.
i could give examples of games but i dont have all day.
our best 11 should be good enough to get the best out of him and a manager who is willing to give him a kick up the arse - roddy collins answer the call (-:
No winning the ball in midfield and carrying it 20 yards before crossing it onto Ireland's toe is an assist ...not getting out of the way of the ball.To me Keanes move was good judgement not an assist!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marked Man
Everytime I see the drop Keane threads I always ask who would you replace him with?
For all the scoffing at his goalscoring record he still has 31 goals for Ireland. Can anyone see any of the other options getting that many international goals? I don't think so. Like it or lump it he's Ireland's best striker and until there is a realistic alternative then dropping him strikes me as cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Don't get me wrong he annoys me immensely sometimes and he shouldn't be captain IMO but do we really have the strength in depth to start leaving out our best striker? I doubt it to be honest. Dropping him for a game might give him a rocket up the arse but I don't see it as a long term option.
what about 4-5-1 with doyle up front and keane on the wing or in behind doyle - more of a creator - spurs have done it quite a lot
i dont mean to scoff at his record - its just when he is bad he is brutal
i know the majority of ye all like me were over at the games last week - i thought he was terrible against the czechs and only marginally better against the slovaks - those teams were there for the taking - i think 4 5 1 with keane in the hole would have worked
opinions please??
I think people expect a bit too much from Keane-hes a top class striker, not world class. He's never gonna get 15-20 league goals a season or be in contention for the golden boot in the premiership. He does well at spurs but can be very inconsistent from them as well. Yes I do agree that Keane plays alot of the time for Ireland too deep but that is largely due to the lack of quality in our midfield. If he stays up front, he doesnt get near the ball, so is drawn towards the midfield.
I thought he was ineffective against the czechs but so was the team largely, however I do remember at least three occasions when we were down to ten men and keane was back defending in our own box.
Against slovakia, both strikers were anonymous, yes doyler came up with a great goal but besides had a very poor game. Keane was instrumental in the first goal and had one good chance which he blazed wide. Im not a keane fan by any means but i believe he is our best striker who tries his best for us, he is not world class though and his finishing is too inconsistent.
I remember at the end of the 2002 WC video, Niall Quinn saying how the future was very exciting for Irish football, good young players coming through, first seeds in the next campaign.........how its all been fcuked up in such a short space of time.
I agree both sides were there for the taking, we shouldve taken 4 points from the 2 games at least...........IF the correct team was played in both games. Im not so sure about 4 5 1 though, I do think Keane is at his best up front with someone to knock balls down to his path ie like berbatov/quinn did.Quote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
elroy i appreciate what your saying - i agree keane is far to inconsistent - but just on his goal scoring for spurs - didnt he score over 20 goals in each of the last 2 seasons for spurs in all competitions - the majority of which came in the second half of each season -when he decided to take his head out his ass - imagine what he could do if was consistent
with regards to the the slovakia - doyle was very poor like keane - but the slovak team were poor and a player of keanes premiership quality should have been able to give more - they both should have - and the midfield
as for quinn we dont have one now for keane to play off - hence the 4 5 1 - also carsley is a great servant but dare i say not the answer to our def mid dilemma - therefore better to pack the midfield
but i completely agree with u mate on ur response to quinns optimism about our future - it truly has been all f**ked up in a very short space of time
and thats my fear that with our current crop of young players - that it will be messed up again - delaney and the fai clowns - take a bow
Keane stepped over the ball and was therefore part of the move and should be credited for it. Had he not done so and instead taken a touch then that particular goal would not have been scored. Irrespective of weather or not he does the wrong thing 99.99% of the time or not, in this case he did the correct thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by btid1
Im with the people who think he shouldnt be captain. He is trying to hard at the moment and is not where we need him up front. He hardly got a kick against the Czechs but that doesnt mean he didnt put in the effort.
hey ceirtlis - mate i dunno know if you were at the game - but off the ball i thought he was very slow in running for the ball - even looking for the ball - pushing back back into mid and making runs when upfront - thought he gave us nothing at that game - but he did complain to the ref alot - but in fairness the ref was a pr*ck so i wont hold that against robbie (-:
Quote:
Originally Posted by btid1
I never said Keane had an assist. I said he made the goal.
An "assist" is a term of art borrowed from American sports, where it means something like "the last significant touch of the ball prior to the scorer receiving it." Obviously you can't do this if you get out of the way of the ball. You can still make a goal though, as Keane did. Which just shows the limitations of the notion of the assist.
You read the Star tomorrow?! Who wins the 3:15 at Kempton?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
Agree with most of your points but I feel he's definately capable of being a 15-20 league goals a season man if he could start well for a change. I think his best league total was 16 last year or the year before and every other year he averages 10-15.
One thing I noticed is that he's a notoriously slow starter. It seems that November is normally the time he kicks into gear a little. The same is happening again this season. It probably doesn't help that Berbatov is off the boil but the two could be connected also.
the thing about Robbie thats annoys me is his post match ramblings........so boring and just another yes man
the captain of the team should be Dunne
and Keane has no guts................if he had he would have left Spurs after they bought their 6th or so striker..........
I agree he shouldn't be captain but to call him gutless for not leaving Spurs is a bit OTT. He's hung in there and fought for his place with some fine displays and is now first choice with Berbatov. IMO he did too much moving around in the 5 years before he joined Spurs. From 1997 to 2002 he played for 5 different clubsQuote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
i.e. Wolves, Coventry, Inter Milan, Leeds and Spurs. I think it's good that he has a certain level of stability now and is considered 1st choice but has a few decent strikers in the background to keep him on his toes. Pity that's not the case for Ireland at the moment but if 1 or 2 players out of Stokes, Keogh, Long, Rooney, Clarke, Murphy etc. make big improvements over this season then that should put his Ireland spot under a bit of pressure and we might see more from him at international level. An improved midfield with the 2 Reids, J. O'Brien and Garvan with another season under his belt to choose from might help too. Anyway the strikers I mentioned all have good potential but that is all up to now and Robbie is miles ahead of any of them at the moment and should be starting. Hopefully these young guys make the breakthrough soon but history dictates that from the 10 or so up and coming strikers only a couple, if any, will be the real deal.
I watched a fair bit of Spurs last night and I thought he was throwing himself to the ground in a totally dishonest manner throughout the whole game. Not once did the ref see through it. No wonder he wins so few penalties for Ireland (Israel at home was an example) as I think refs know his game and have him marked as a cheat. Rightly so on last night's showing. Embarrassing. Almost as bad as Jose Antonio Reyes, the "redeeming" quality being that at least Keane picks himself up again immediately rather than trying to compound the deception.
Far too harsh IMO, Robbie had one outragous dive when his touch let him down but other than that I didn't see him go down easily once. He also played well and set up Spurs second goal very calmly.
I see a lot of Spurs and Robbie really has got that diving element out of his game to a large degree. Fair enough he whinges at the ref too much but for example at the weekend (when there was an absolute stone-wall penalty and red card for the 'keeper against West Ham that wasn't given) he had a point. To say refs have pinpointed him as a 'cheat' is ludicrous. Andrew Johnson is a cheat, Robbie Keane isn't.
I'd like to see the West Ham one again. I thought he went down after a bit of contact rather than being resoundingly taken down. I'd say if the lob was towards the middle of the goal and needed another touch to put it in he could have stayed on his feet easily enough.
I saw 3 or 4 times where Keane went down to con the ref last night (t"throughout whole game" maybe an exaggeration), sometimes half heartedly but twice with full intent. Once early in the second half and once late in the first when he threw himself in the air under a cross from the right purely to make it look like he was fouled when attacking the ball. The ball was put back into the box and he missed with a flying volley. Maybe if he'd been on his feet the whole time he'd have been better prepared
I honestly thought the penalty not given against Israel might well have been influenced by a reputation for going down very easily.
I'm not a Robbie-basher like many here but I thought it was a poor show in this regard last night.
Do you think refs from outside England have him marked? I think they just ref the game as they see it.