Eligibility Rules, Okay

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Originally Posted by co. down green

Do you not then find it contradictory, that the IFA claim to be 'inclusive' yet it's president is an active member of an organisation that is “a sectarian and bigoted organisation” - to quote the Tánaiste from a few years back?

How can the IFA claim to embrace all sections of society in the North when it's boss is happy to part of something that forbids his children from marrying a Catholic or even forbids him from entering a Catholic church?

You couldn't make it up!

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All religions are by their very nature 'sectarian'. Provided Ray leaves Orange-isms hangups about RCs at home, and in fairness he's entitled to a presumption he will until shown to have acted in a prejudicial manner in some matter, then his Orange heritage shouldn't a problem.

Incidently, our first team manager is widely believed to be a member of the highly secretive RC organisation Opus Dei. They believe in stuff that is every bit as ****ed up as the OO.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Incidently, our first team manager is widely believed to be a member of the highly secretive RC organisation Opus Dei.

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Why else would the FAI have hired him?

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Originally Posted by co. down green

Strange that, i was at a mixed marriage in a Catholic church nine months ago in Belfast and it was a joint service with a priest and a Protestant minister.

The IFA president would presumably,if he'd been invited, refuse to enter the church due to his membership of the bigoted Orange order

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Why do you think he would do that? OO members are undoubtedly at Catholic services all the time.

The only bigot here is you my friend. Telling tales now to try and paint the picture to be something it isn't. Sad. :(

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Incidently, our first team manager is widely believed to be a member of the highly secretive RC organisation Opus Dei. They believe in stuff that is every bit as ****ed up as the OO.

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Opus Dei (ō`pəs dā`ē) [Lat.,=work of God]

Our tactics are God's way. Question them not.
Andy Keogh is the holy ghost.
Andy Reid should be a worried man.

Saint Ledger,
Defend us in battle,
Be our defence against the wickedness and snares of the Pavel...

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

In what way?

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Libelling all SF supporters as those of the PIRA for starters. Including footballers from the North of Ireland who might happen to have sympathies in direction.

And the hypocrisy relates to those from the 'other side', who have opposing views, who may or may not have views on supporting their own paramilitaries.
Again relating to footballers from the North.

But it's part of Life there, so what? Get over it.

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Originally Posted by co. down green

Andy Kilmartin
James Quigley
Darren McCauley
Brian Lagan
Larry Farren
David McDaid
Eugene Ferry
Mark Hicks

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After an OWC poster moaned over there about it having taken just "more than 2 hours" for a NI fans public Twitter exchange with Eunan O'Kane to appear on this "pathetic" and "obsessive" forum the other day by asking, "When was the last time something interesting from foot.ie was quoted on here?", it obviously brought a wry smile to my face to see the list of northern-born players to have either declared or played for us at some level that we compiled a few pages back being reposted in the following edited format a matter of hours ago by the very same poster who had the exchange with O'Kane, himself a moderator on OWC:

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Here is a list of players which have 'switched' to the Republic some having represented Northern Ireland at some level others not. The most striking thing is the number of players born in Londonderry (and play(ed)) for Derry City.

Darron Gibson (Man Utd) - None
Marc Wilson (Stoke) - Grandparent ?
Shane Duffy (Everton) - Parents
Daniel Kearns (Dundalk) - None
Shane McEleney (Derry City) - ?
Paddy McEleney (Derry City) - ?
Darren McCauley (Celtic) - ?
Paul George (Celtic) - None
Adam Barton (PNE) - None
James McClean (Sunderland) - None
Daniel Devine (PNE) - None
Eunan O'Kane (Torquay) - None
Ger Crossley (?) - None
Saul Deeney (Derby County) - ?
Kevin Deery (Derry City) - ?
Gerard Doherty (Derry City) - ?
Ruairí Harkin (Derry City) - ?
Neil McCafferty (Portadown) - ?
Henry McStay (Bradford Park Avenue) - ?
Barry Molloy (Derry City) - ?
Marc Mukendi (Coleraine) - None
Andy Kilmartin (Kilmore Rec) - ?
James Quigley (?) - ?
Darren McCauley (Derry City) - ?
Brian Lagan (?) - None
Larry Farren (?) - ?
David McDaid (Derry City) - ?
Eugene Ferry (?) - None
Mark Hicks (?) - None
Anton Rodgers (Brighton) - None

Mark McKeever (Retired) - ?
Tony Shields (Retired) - ?
Alan Kernaghan (Retired) - None but IFA's fault for not selecting him due to Home Nations rules

Carl Magnay (Chelsea) - None but Not 100% confirmed

Michael O'Connor (Sc**thorpe) - Jumped then returned
Tony Kane (Cliftonville) - Jumped then returned

Alex Bruce (Leeds) - Not getting picked for Eire so wants to play for the side he thought were 2nd best

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Isn't that a turn-up for the books?

Of course, "switched" isn't the correct term to use for half of those guys as they never switched from one association to the other at all. Anyway, I note there is one addition that we missed; Anton Rodgers, the son of current Swansea manager, Brendan Rodgers.* I also note the poster has "Grandparent?" next to Marc Wilson and "Parents" next to Shane Duffy - "None" or a question mark next to the rest - presumably intended as some sort of feigned bewilderment as to how he thinks they qualify to play for us. For what it's worth, I actually think only Shane Duffy's father is Donegal-born whilst his Derry-born mother's parents might also be, but it's extraordinary to think that some are still banging on about this and have, as of yet, failed to acknowledge the cultural and legal validity of the jus soli Irish nationality of a significant minority of the population with whom they share the jurisdiction.

By the way, were there two Darren McCauleys or did he just paste him in twice by mistake? And is Tony Shields retired? He's still only 31 and possibly unattached at the minute, but, as far as I know, he was playing for Finn Harps just last season.

Funnily enough, the reposted list is also preceded by the reposting verbatim of the text of two articles (this and this) that have long been doing the rounds here in relation to the 1999 discussions between Jim Boyce and Bernard O'Byrne over the issue of eligibility along with another about Brian Lagan.

What is strange about this is that this is the same ignoramus who professed knowledge of the issue when he wrote the following piece last May: http://thegawa.wordpress.com/2011/05...cts-the-truth/

I wonder did he even read the judgment from the Daniel Kearns case...

I'm surprised he posted those articles though as they not only confirm without question that the IFA was fully aware since as early as 1999 of the eligibility of northern-born Irish nationals to play for Ireland (although CAS refers expressly to an IFA complaint over the issue to the FIFA Players' Status Committee as far back as May of 1994), but they also make it abundantly clear that there was no gentleman's agreement in place relating to these players' eligibility to play for the FAI and that the IFA was admittedly happy with the arrangement as it was; that being that the FAI would only select volunteers and would inform the IFA of their approach, an agreement the IFA breached severely by attempting to prevent Daniel Kearns and others like him from declaring for the FAI by taking the player, along with the FAI and FIFA, to CAS.

Just another thing, CDG... I remember you once mentioned a Derry-born player at Sheffield Wednesday called John Morrison who was aged 17 back in 1998 in relation to the eligiblity issue. It was in the other eligibility thread actually. You were saying how the FAI, wary of confrontation with the IFA, were less than pleased that his Irish coach at Wednesday had been encouraging him to declare for Ireland. It didn't strike me at the time for some reason, but it's just dawned on me now that that must actually have been Owen Morrison to whom you were referring. More recently, he played with Dunfermline, Derry City as well as Sligo Rovers and is now with FC New York, although I hear Stephen Kenny is contemplating re-signing him as a replacement for James McClean. The thing is, his full-name is actually John Owen Morrison and he was at Sheffield Wednesday at the time. I had been going to ask you if he ever did actually declare for the FAI, but now I know he didn't. He played for NI at under-21 level.

*Whilst I'm at it, I thought this bit from Anton Rodgers' Chelsea Wiki article was pretty funny:

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Anton is eligible to play for England through birth, Northern Ireland through parentage, or the Republic of Ireland under EU rulings. He has so far chosen the latter of the three, representing the Republic of Ireland at Under-15, Under-16 and Under-17 levels.

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Well, it's a new one anyway.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Libelling all SF supporters as those of the PIRA for starters. Including footballers from the North of Ireland who might happen to have sympathies in direction.

And the hypocrisy relates to those from the 'other side', who have opposing views, who may or may not have views on supporting their own paramilitaries.
Again relating to footballers from the North.

But it's part of Life there, so what? Get over it.

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I have libeled nobody.

I consider PSF & PIRA to be part of the same movement ie. the Provisional Movement.

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Originally Posted by co. down green

How can the IFA claim to embrace all sections of society in the North when it's boss is happy to part of something that forbids his children from marrying a Catholic or even forbids him from entering a Catholic church?

You couldn't make it up!

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The President of the IFA is Jim Shaw.

The CEO of the IFA is Patrick Nelson.

Well known members of the OO have "entered" a Catholic Church in recent months - perhaps you missed the news?

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Incidently, our first team manager is widely believed to be a member of the highly secretive RC organisation Opus Dei. They believe in stuff that is every bit as ****ed up as the OO.

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So, according to Co Down Green, Trap is a sectarian bigot?

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

So, according to Co Down Green, Trap is a sectarian bigot?

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Some marks for 'imaginative' deduction, using one reply to query another's sentiments.
Trap may or may not be a religious fascist, we don't know as it isn't part of his managerial baggage. However in NI, some religious zealots do bring their religious orthodoxy, via their public service/ professional duties capacity, out into the wider community.

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Originally Posted by geysir

However in NI, some religious zealots do bring their religious orthodoxy, via their public service/ professional duties capacity, out into the wider community.

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Yes, some do.

There is no evidence that I am aware of to suggest that Raymond Kennedy's membership of the OO compromised his duties at the IFA.

You're wrong again NB.
It might only be a MB read by a few folk, but you really need to stop digging that hole...
;)

Or at least find out the views of those you're libelling.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

You're wrong again NB.
It might only be a MB read by a few folk, but you really need to stop digging that hole...
;)

Or at least find out the views of those you're libelling.
:rolleyes:

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No hole being dug, and no libelling going on mo chara.

A raw nerve, however, does seem to have been touched.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Sure, when did the IFA and their apologists ever worry about Hypocrisy...

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Indeed AB. Here we have NB crying about people born in NI "denying" other players a dream and on the other we have him accepting people born in England who are "denying" players dreams, without qualms.

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Originally Posted by Predator

Indeed AB. Here we have NB crying about people born in NI "denying" other players a dream and on the other we have him accepting people born in England who are "denying" players dreams, without qualms.

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There's no hypocrisy in this.

NB doesn't players in the underage set-up who don't plan on ever appearing for the senior side (if wanted by the IFA) because their addition in underage squads may in some way hinder the development of a player who does dream of representing NI at senior level. The issue of them representing NI at senior level has nothing to do with footballing ability and everything to do with their nationality (or the preferred of their nationalities).

Accepting an English-born (and trained) player into the senior squad ahead of a NI-born player (who may have dreamed of representing NI in a way that English-born player never has) has everything to do with footballing ability and nothing to do with nationality.

The two are not comparable.

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Originally Posted by Predator

Indeed AB. Here we have NB crying about people born in NI "denying" other players a dream and on the other we have him accepting people born in England who are "denying" players dreams, without qualms.

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I thought I had clarified that for you.

If there are players in the Northern Ireland underage set up (Under 19 and above) who harbour realistic ambitions of representing the South (or England etc) at senior international level, they should be:

a/ weeded out

or

b/ helped to get off the fence at the earliest possible opportunity (provided the objectives of the senior team are not compromised in consequence).

The cornerstone of our underage set-up, should be to develop players whose ambition is to represent Northern Ireland at senior international level.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

No hole being dug, and no libelling going on mo chara.

A raw nerve, however, does seem to have been touched.

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Still wrong and no raw nerve touched, but if you want to carry on looking ignorant about a sizable minority of your local electorate, more fool you.;)

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Originally Posted by osarusan

There's no hypocrisy in this.

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Hmm, if you were being generous perhaps. Double standards certainly. And NB is talking complete guff about 'weeding out' and 'getting' off the fence. Besides the dubious gardening analogy, it goes against the ethos of FIFA's rules and the CAS.

But some people are being more like an, er, ostrich about this...

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

And NB is talking complete guff about 'weeding out' and 'getting' off the fence.

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No guff at all. NB is perfectly right to want to ensure that the IFA are only offering training to those who really want to play for Northern Ireland.

Now, I'm not hugely critical of players who have ended up declaring for the ROI. I think it's perhaps unfair to portray them as calculating individuals who continue to take advantage of the training after they've decided the want to declare for ROI, because it's always possible that they had never thought carefully about which national team they really did want to represent.

If the IFA decide to call a player into a senior squad to force him to think about it carefully for the first time, I've no problem with that. If the player decides they want to represent NI, good for him. If he decides he wants to declare for the ROI, good for him also, but at least then the situation regarding this player is resolved, and the IFA can then look at different players who might otherwise have been overlooked.