Gavin Bazunu G Southampton b.2002

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03/12/2025, 12:04 PM
ifk101

You can say similar for Kelleher. He has been beaten from distance in the WC qualifying campaign gone, and has been weak on crosses (he has to take that cross for the winner in Portugal). Don’t get me wrong, Kelleher is clearly our number 1 now, and arguably has been our best player in the WC qualifying campaign, but if you really want to nit-pick – you can. (Didn’t really see anything wrong on Bazunu’s part for the Millwall goals btw).
03/12/2025, 1:45 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

You can say similar for Kelleher. He has been beaten from distance in the WC qualifying campaign gone, and has been weak on crosses (he has to take that cross for the winner in Portugal).

I suppose you can say anything really. I could say Kelleher was great when taking that high ball in the very final minute of the Hungary win and that offsets any criticism of the Portugal goal.

But that's where stats come in, much and all as the purists may abhor them. Kelleher claims more than three times as many crosses as Bazunu for example. That's less impressive than it might sound at first - keepers don't claim crosses for the most part; a 10% claim rate is very good. But Kelleher is top one-third in the Premier and Bazunu is bottom 10% in the Championship (both from fbref), so there is a noticeable difference that goes beyond nit-picking. (You could say Kelleher is decent, if no Farquharson). And that feeds into criticism Bazunu has gotten from fans of Southampton and Liege - that he doesn't command his box.
03/12/2025, 3:56 PM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I suppose you can say anything really. I could say Kelleher was great when taking that high ball in the very final minute of the Hungary win and that offsets any criticism of the Portugal goal.

Remind me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But that's where stats come in, much and all as the purists may abhor them. Kelleher claims more than three times as many crosses as Bazunu for example. That's less impressive than it might sound at first - keepers don't claim crosses for the most part; a 10% claim rate is very good. But Kelleher is top one-third in the Premier and Bazunu is bottom 10% in the Championship (both from fbref), so there is a noticeable difference that goes beyond nit-picking. (You could say Kelleher is decent, if no Farquharson).

Cool. Kelleher has taken 12 crosses out of 175 - nothing great, nothing bad. Three times as many is less impressive when you actually state the numbers. He is ranked eight in the EPL but the sample size is small. Pickford has the lowest take ratio for crosses 2.1% (4 from 189) - wouldn't be Pickford's greatest fan but he is an established goalie so wouldn't draw any conclusions from stats in isolation. But as stated, Kelleher is clearly no.1 for Ireland - he has the jersey. No problem there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

And that feeds into criticism Bazunu has gotten from fans of Southampton and Liege - that he doesn't command his box.

Are you reading Southampton and Liege forums to keep tabs on Bazunu? That takes dedication.
03/12/2025, 6:32 PM
Kingdom

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

... Kelleher ... has been weak on crosses

I think it's absolutely fair to say that a weak facet to Caoimhín's game is his aerial authority of his box. That's a fair critique. He isn't an intimidating goalkeeper by any means. I love him and wouldn't switch him, but if I was a centre forward i'd fancy my chances in the air with him (yeah, but you're a fat coont Kingdom).

I always am skeptical of goalkeepers who are skinless from the chin-down. An old-school, bigoted, viewpoint harking back to Match of the 70s perhaps, but seeing keepers with the tights just evokes flakiness ala Dmitri Kharine, Massimo Taibi, or Luca Bucci.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

(he has to take that cross for the winner in Portugal)

I've flip-flopped on that goal more times than the Trump on Epstein files. On one hand, I feel he was stupid to come for it because he has to have known he wouldn't get there first once the flight of the ball became obvious. On the other hand, he had to come for it because the marking wasn't there and the ball was so central. And ultimately, it was the perfect cross and once the attacker got the touch the ball is going in the goal regardless of whether the keeper comes or the keeper stays - the real crime was the space that (Johnston?) was given to the cross to come in and (sorry to say it) that John Egan loses the forward.
03/12/2025, 6:35 PM
Kingdom

What are Kells* stats at international level?

* & Baz (appreciate this is the Baz thread)
04/12/2025, 9:59 AM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

Cool. Kelleher has taken 12 crosses out of 175 - nothing great, nothing bad. Three times as many is less impressive when you actually state the numbers. He is ranked eight in the EPL but the sample size is small. Is the sample size small? 200 crosses? Pickford has the lowest take ratio for crosses 2.1% (4 from 189) - wouldn't be Pickford's greatest fan but he is an established goalie so wouldn't draw any conclusions from stats in isolation.

I think there's a couple of things here - first is that crosses is only a small part of a keeper's job, and I think the stats reflect that. The only conclusion in isolation I'm drawing is that Bazunu doesn't really command his area or take crosses. Second then is that no-one's saying Bazunu is amateur league standard compared to the Tommy Farquharson that is Kelleher. But the margins add up to the difference between, say, a Premier League and a Championship keeper. I think Bazunu is also bad dealing with shots from long range, and those facets all add up. (Kelleher last night had a good save from a shot outside the box when the forward was given space; some sort of witchcraft was no doubt invoked as JRG would have us believe these shots are nigh on unstoppable).

And if people want nit-picky balance, you could say Kelleher maybe needed to get a stronger hand to Arsenal's second last night, but he was kept busy enough over the night that I think he still had a solid game regardless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

Are you reading Southampton and Liege forums to keep tabs on Bazunu? That takes dedication.

I (and other posters here) often check out other clubs' forums to see how our players are doing, yes.
04/12/2025, 10:38 AM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingdom

I've flip-flopped on that goal more times than the Trump on Epstein files. On one hand, I feel he was stupid to come for it because he has to have known he wouldn't get there first once the flight of the ball became obvious. On the other hand, he had to come for it because the marking wasn't there and the ball was so central. And ultimately, it was the perfect cross and once the attacker got the touch the ball is going in the goal regardless of whether the keeper comes or the keeper stays - the real crime was the space that (Johnston?) was given to the cross to come in and (sorry to say it) that John Egan loses the forward.

Kingdom, I wouldn’t be too critical as Kelleher was arguably our best player in the WC qualification – this is probably a statistically correct assertion to make. But …. the header for the Portugal winner is made inside the six-yard box and Kelleher needs to be stronger – to quote somebody else "he doesn't really command his area". I re-watched the goal this morning, and you can see he was indecisive about coming or not. He takes a slight step back when the cross is made and his subsequent reaction is on the back foot and too late. Granted disorganisation with Egan’s introduction, Johnston not getting tight and the quality of the cross also played context in analysing the goal. Not sure if stats pick up the disorganisation, not closing down, the quality of the cross, or a cross the keeper should take – maybe they just register a goal for/ and against and mark it a a cross made/ faced? And while on stats to continue the thread's death spiral, thought Kelleher had a good game last night yet just a 6.3 rating on whoscored.com with an “e” above his name to denote an error leading to a goal (very harsh imo). The fbref stats record him facing 14 crosses – none of which he took. Bad or good? – depends on if your name is Gavin Bazunu.
04/12/2025, 2:51 PM
Jolly Red Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Bazunu has gotten from fans of Southampton and Liege - that he doesn't command his box.

Yet that is one feature of his game that has improved this season

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingdom

I think it's absolutely fair to say that a weak facet to Caoimhín's game is his aerial authority of his box. That's a fair critique.

The reality is that this is a common feature among modern goalkeepers compared to times past. Keepers are more reluctant now to come for a cross and when they do they are far more likely to punch the ball rather than to try and catch it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Second then is that no-one's saying Bazunu is amateur league standard compared to the Tommy Farquharson that is Kelleher.

You really do have a bee in your bonnet

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But the margins add up to the difference between, say, a Premier League and a Championship keeper.

Of course there are difference - and at the moment Kelleher is playing PL and Bazunu is playing Championship level (with little likelihood of him moving up) - part of that is the fact that Kelleher is three years older and didn't lose a year of his development to a serious injury. But there is also the reality that the difference between both divisions is not massive. There are some poor goalkeepers in the PL - or to be more accurate some goalkeepers in the PL who make very poor dicisions (both goalkeepers in the Brighton/Villa game made a ton of mistakes).

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think Bazunu is also bad dealing with shots from long range, and those facets all add up. (Kelleher last night had a good save from a shot outside the box when the forward was given space; some sort of witchcraft was no doubt invoked as JRG would have us believe these shots are nigh on unstoppable).

Could Bazunu be better - absolutely - and so could many other keepers. But your comment here suggests that Bazunu has never made a save from a long-range shot which is false - and that it is routine for Kelleher, which it is not. But one big difference is the fact that Andrews has Brentford defending very well whereas Southampton haven't had a defence since Bazunu got to Southampton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

And if people want nit-picky balance, you could say Kelleher maybe needed to get a stronger hand to Arsenal's second last night, but he was kept busy enough over the night that I think he still had a solid game regardless.

I disagree - I thought that Kelleher was poor last night, certainly not up to his usual standard in comparison to other games I have seen this season. He flapped a couple of times, he repeatedly pushed shots back out into the path of an attacker and I thought he could have done better for both goals. But these things happen - there was an element of inevitability about that result and I think that Kelleher and the rest of the Brentford team played down to the inevitability once Arsenal scored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

Kingdom, I wouldn’t be too critical as Kelleher was arguably our best player in the WC qualification – this is probably a statistically correct assertion to make. But …. the header for the Portugal winner is made inside the six-yard box and Kelleher needs to be stronger – to quote somebody else "he doesn't really command his area". I re-watched the goal this morning, and you can see he was indecisive about coming or not. He takes a slight step back when the cross is made and his subsequent reaction is on the back foot and too late. Granted disorganisation with Egan’s introduction, Johnston not getting tight and the quality of the cross also played context in analysing the goal. Not sure if stats pick up the disorganisation, not closing down, the quality of the cross, or a cross the keeper should take – maybe they just register a goal for/ and against and mark it a a cross made/ faced? And while on stats to continue the thread's death spiral, thought Kelleher had a good game last night yet just a 6.3 rating on whoscored.com with an “e” above his name to denote an error leading to a goal (very harsh imo). The fbref stats record him facing 14 crosses – none of which he took. Bad or good? – depends on if your name is Gavin Bazunu.

All goalkeepers have flaws and make bad decisions - unlike outfield players, goalkeepers have nowhere to hide and bear the brunt of (often unwarranted) criticism when teams lose and goals are conceded. As I said above - you improve as a keeper when you minimise the mistakes and counter-balance with good saves / positioning etc (including coming and gathering crosses). We have a very good crop of keepers at the moment - in reality an embarrassment of riches in comparison to times past - most of them on the younger side with the potential to improve before they reach their peak.

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