Player eligibility row

Here are some comments from elected representatives on the matter. The comments from the unionist politicians remind me of some of the silly comments on OWC. Pitiful stuff, don't you think?

From the Belfast Newsletter,

Sports minister Nelson McCausland described the ruling as "a poor result for local football" and added: "I support the principle of sports bodies doing everything possible to encourage young talented players from Northern Ireland to go on to represent their country at international level, but I want to read the court's ruling in full before commenting further."

Ulster Unionist MLA David McNarry last night called on the IFA to "fight tooth and nail" yesterday's judgment .

"The IFA should use the European Courts, appeal to Westminster, make these young players sign a document that they will stick by the IFA that is pouring money and resources into their development – maybe even renegotiate the Belfast Agreement that created this farce," said Mr McNarry."

Renegotiate the Belfast Agreement? Ha! It just exposes the narrow-minded, intolerant attitude of many of those from within the unionist tradition. I would say it's 'shocking stuff', but it truly comes as no surprise. The article continues with comments from Barry McElduff, Thomas Burns and Jim Rodgers,

Sinn Fein chairman of the DCAL committee Barry McElduff said: "It will come as no surprise that the CAS has thrown out this case.

"It was a blatant attempt to deny Irish citizens in the six counties their full rights as Irish passport holders and was doomed to failure from the start."

SDLP MLA Thomas Burns said: "We have consistently argued that footballers should have the right to choose which team to play for, whether that is Northern Ireland or the Republic. It is only right that any footballer is given the freedom to make up their own mind on which country they wish to represent."

But former Belfast lord mayor Jim Rodgers (UUP) – a member of the Glentoran board and of Sport NI – said: "If someone doesn't want to play for you, there isn't much you can do about it. But these young people accept the investment that's poured into their careers at an early stage and should stay with the sporting bodies who helped develop them with time and money."

I read those earlier Pred. It is trully shocking, but not surprising, that McNarry hasn't got the first notion of how all this works. As for JIm Rodgers the man is just an idiot.

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Originally Posted by Predator

Here are some comments from elected representatives on the matter. The comments from the unionist politicians remind me of some of the silly comments on OWC. Pitiful stuff, don't you think?

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I smell sour grapes. I agree. Is it any wonder you get the usual b*ll*cks from ourweeminds posters if their politicians behave that way. I mean 'investment'? Surely much of this money comes from grants from either the local/regional government? Oh of course, Taigs, with their endless breeding of provo fodder don't pay taxes. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Predator

Ulster Unionist MLA David McNarry last night called on the IFA to "fight tooth and nail" yesterday's judgment .

"The IFA should use the European Courts, appeal to Westminster, make these young players sign a document that they will stick by the IFA that is pouring money and resources into their development – maybe even renegotiate the Belfast Agreement that created this farce," said Mr McNarry."
[/I][/INDENT]

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This is truly bizarre. In one breath he's complaining about all the wasted money "poured" into these players, and in the next he's arguing for pursuing unwinnable legal action in courts that don't even have jurisdiction.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

This Irish FA has a very successful ‘Football For ALL’ programme where the main objective of the programme is to make sure that the sport of football is welcoming and inclusive to ALL members of our society in Northern Ireland ......

http://www.irishfa.com/news/item/584...-fa-statement/



The fact that the IFA has to pay "damages" to Daniel Kearns and all legal costs related to their willingness to uphold the eligibility statutes does make one giggle. But I think it's best for us just to move on and let them get on with paying off their debts.

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I KNOW what football for all is, I fail to see how it is relevant in any way, shape or form to what I said. I fail to see why you brought it up, unless you really don't know what you're talking about?

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Originally Posted by lopez

I smell sour grapes. I agree. Is it any wonder you get the usual b*ll*cks from ourweeminds posters if their politicians behave that way. I mean 'investment'? Surely much of this money comes from grants from either the local/regional government? Oh of course, Taigs, with their endless breeding of provo fodder don't pay taxes. :rolleyes:

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What are you talking about you idiot? Seriously.

The most annoying thing about this is the amount of ill-informed blatantly incorrect posts on here from people who quite clearly do not have an idea about what they are discussing! It's almost comical!

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Originally Posted by awec

What are you talking about you idiot? Seriously.

The most annoying thing about this is the amount of ill-informed blatantly incorrect posts on here from people who quite clearly do not have an idea about what they are discussing! It's almost comical!

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If you are counting people posting ill-informed nonsense I suggest you hop over to OWC, they are winning hands down!!

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

If you are counting people posting ill-informed nonsense I suggest you hop over to OWC, they are winning hands down!!

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I am not suggesting they are much better, but some of the stuff on here is some of the ill-informed crap I'd expect to be reading on gaaboards.ie

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Originally Posted by awec

My problem is the scrotes who think they can take us for an easy ride through youth level and jump ship. If you don't want to play for us don't waste our time and sod off :)

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So i presume you will be calling for 'scrotes' like former England youth international Oliver Norwood to sod off from the IFA team ??

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Originally Posted by Predator

I wonder why they felt it was the best option?

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That would be an interesting theme for a thesis. As we have seen with the IFA, when dogma is to the fore then rationality is suspended. The phrase that comes to mind was posted earlier by CDG, 'our way or no way'. Just as every dogma has its day, now the 'our way or no way' has been met firmly and sent back to obscurity to fester.
We have already witnessed at first hand the persistent stubbornness of Ealing Green, even past the time when FIFA spelled it out crystal clear in 2008, he failed to see past his dogma and grasp the simple concepts of national eligibility outlined in FIFA article 15 and was bewildered by the nature and significance of automatic dual nationality.
The IFA have just taken that dogma to extremes with this appeal. What makes this peculiar is the IFA have persisted with their mindset that they were right and FIFA and all their lawmakers were wrong. Even in the face of FIFA ruling against them and FIFA spelling it out in June 2008, they remained steadfast in that dogma. The CAS appeal just demonstrates the wide extent of the existence of the 'our way or no way' mindset as part of their dogma.
They were looking at the globe, calling it flat and thick enough to go to an appeals court over their flat earth belief.

I don't feel the slightest bit of emotion over this ruling, it was already a forgone conclusion that CAS would rule so. Just astonished at the cash coup for the legal team that represented the IFA, in the respect of either how they managed to stay straight faced and earnest about the case or could they have been so ignorant about such a basic open and shut case?
Or could we credit the IFA with some political nous, stringing along the OWC fanbase, in that it was more important for them to be seen to be doing something than try and explain a lost cause.

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Originally Posted by co. down green

So i presume you will be calling for 'scrotes' like former England youth international Oliver Norwood to sod off from the IFA team ??

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I can't say I agree with it, no.

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Originally Posted by lopez

Anyone got any class quotes from ourweeminds to make us laugh?

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Some talk of a protest outside FAI Headquarters. Rumours of them picking up Maxi in Dundalk on the way down are unconfirmed.

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Originally Posted by awec

I can't say I agree with it, no.

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I suggest then that you contact big Nige and tell him.

Perhaps you could also inform him of other 'scrotes' in your team like Joe Dudgeon who played u18 schoolboys football for England as did another member of your u19 team Ryan Blake.

And let's not forget Johnny Gorman who played under 16 football for Ireland before 'moving' to the IFA team.

I'm sure Nigel will drop Norwood & Gorman from the current IFA senior squad and stop selecting Dudgeoon & Blake, seeing as you are not happy about it.

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Originally Posted by geysir

That would be an interesting theme for a thesis. As we have seen with the IFA, when dogma is to the fore then rationality is suspended. The phrase that comes to mind was posted earlier by CDG, 'our way or no way'. As every dogma has its day now the 'our way or no way' has been met firmly and sent back to obscurity to fester.
We have already witnessed at first hand the persistent stubbornness of Ealing Green, even past the time when FIFA spelled it out crystal clear in 2008, he failed to see past his dogma and grasp the simple concepts of national eligibility outlined in FIFA article 15 and was bewildered by the nature and significance of automatic dual nationality.
The IFA have just taken that dogma to extremes with this appeal. What makes this peculiar is the IFA have persisted with their mindset that they were right and FIFA and all their lawmakers were wrong. Even in the face of FIFA ruling against them and FIFA spelling it out in June 2008, they remained steadfast in that dogma. The CAS appeal just demonstrates the wide extent of the existence of the 'our way or no way' mindset as part of their dogma.
They were looking at the globe, calling it flat and thick enough to go to an appeals court over their flat earth belief.

I don't feel the slightest bit of emotion over this ruling, it was already a forgone conclusion that CAS would rule so. Just astonished at the cash coup for the legal team that represented the IFA, in the respect of either how they managed to stay straight faced and earnest about the case or could they have been so ignorant about such a basic open and shut case?
Or could we credit the IFA with some political nous, stringing along the OWC fanbase, in that it was more important for them to be seen to be doing something than try and explain a lost cause.

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Nail on head.

Back in 1999 the IFA knew that there was nowhere to go with this. The wise heads of the time let the matter drop and realised that to highlight it any further would just create more awareness that declaring for the FAI was an option. Iirc, they then shot themselves in the foot over trying to force players to have UK passports and everything started to bubble again. A couple of high profile defections and the natives were restless. In the meantime, those wiseheads at the IFA were sidelined and the Gawa's new favourite Kennedy came to the fore. More concerned with his own popularity he then bowed to the pressure from the Gawa masses who couldn't comprehend why some might not want to play for them. The believed that just because they went someway in sanitising the sectarianism from the stands that this would mean that there was no reason for anyone to want to leave their set up. Of course they fail to realise that this had little to do with why players were leaving the camp. Nationality played a major part of course, but behind the scenes certain coaching staff soured things even further.

Kennedy continued to play to the gallery and the Gawa, it appears, even set up their own player eligibility committee. How up your own arse is that!

That's what it was really all about imo, Kennedy making the Gawa happy and leading them up the path of the CAS.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Back in 1999 the IFA knew that there was nowhere to go with this. The wise heads of the time let the matter drop and realised that to highlight it any further would just create more awareness that declaring for the FAI was an option. Iirc, they then shot themselves in the foot over trying to force players to have UK passports and everything started to bubble again. A couple of high profile defections and the natives were restless. In the meantime, those wiseheads at the IFA were sidelined and the Gawa's new favourite Kennedy came to the fore. More concerned with his own popularity he then bowed to the pressure from the Gawa masses who couldn't comprehend why some might not want to play for them. The believed that just because they went someway in sanitising the sectarianism from the stands that this would mean that there was no reason for anyone to want to leave their set up. Of course they fail to realise that this had little to do with why players were leaving the camp. Nationality played a major part of course, but behind the scenes certain coaching staff soured things even further.

Kennedy continued to play to the gallery and the Gawa, it appears, even set up their own player eligibility committee. How up your own arse is that!

That's what it was really all about imo, Kennedy making the Gawa happy and leading them up the path of the CAS.

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A perfect summary Mr Parker.

Jim Boyce was fully aware of the situation on eligibility back in the late nineties when guys like Ger Crossley was starting to make an impact at club level and internationally for Ireland. He had the brains to realise that while there remained a 'grey area' in the minds of young internationals regarding their eligibility for Ireland, it could be used to dissuade players from seeking selection for the Ireland youth teams. I personally know of one player around that time who's father was told by a member of the IFA coaching staff that his son did not qualify to play for Ireland and that any approach would open a can of worms for the player.

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Originally Posted by Predator

I wonder why they felt it was the best option?...Yes, let's[move on]. I don't suppose you could encourage your fellow supporters to do the same, GR?

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God knows. I'd expect Nelson (CEO) to explain. I'll ask him direct.

We'll move on. Of course a disaffected minority will chunter until even they get fed up with it.

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The comments from the unionist politicians remind me of some of the silly comments on OWC. Pitiful stuff, don't you think?

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Sure, McNarry's talking through his hole. Judging purely by the comments in the article you quoted, McCausland is acknowledging that our future squads are likely to be weakened- doesn't everyone accept that? While I disagree with Rodgers (and Awec on here, as below), it's hardly idiotic to suggest some unfairness in the situation.

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Originally Posted by Sean fhear

we hope that the new ground at Landsdowne road is a fitting venue for you to display your skills at home games

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Is this a recurring gag I'm missing, or do you really think having a big/ new stadium is relevant, or proportional to the likelihood of qualifying? Slovenia have been to three recent finals, using a stadium even smaller than Windsor.

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Originally Posted by Crafty Toe Poke

I wonder how long before we see a lad from the Unionist tradition declare for us ? Purely for football reasons, a chance to go to a major finals maybe

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I guess it might be a while. Of course these things change over time, and may run in cycles, but any kid making that choice in, say, 1994, might still only have seen you in one finals in his entire playing career. Paul Green and Sean St Ledger didn't abandon England because they thought the Republic of Ireland were more likely to qualify. Of course, there's always a chance that some unionist-background kid might have a row with the IFA coaches/ administrators and storm South (or even West, to Dan the Man's nice training camp in Andytown), but when did that last happen? Alan Kernaghan, maybe.

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Originally Posted by Third Policeman

I have a friend from Coleraine who declared for the Irish surfing team rather than represent Britain. I think it had more to do with getting selected

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Without knowing TP's friend, or anything about surfing, that sounds plausible. You see it in a variety of sports at the Olympics etc. There were actually three rowers from Coleraine in Beijing, all from the same school. Two in the British team, one in the Republic's.

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Originally Posted by Awec

I'd like to see players who go through the NI youth teams being unable to decide they fancy changing. If you play for us at youth level you play for us for good. If you don't want to play for us then you can play for the FAI at youth level, no problem at all, I only want to see players who are proud to play for us doing so

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Doesn't it depend what you mean by youth teams? As I've said, I'd make the cut-off any game as an adult (age 18 or above), as it seems a bit unfair to pressure younger guys. As others have said above.

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My problem is the scrotes who think they can take us for an easy ride through youth level and jump ship. If you don't want to play for us don't waste our time and sod off

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Steady on. They aren't 'scrotes' (and if they were, as others say above doesn't that make Ollie Norwood or Lee Hodson a scrote too?). They're simply playing according to the existing rules. The IFA wasted plenty of energy in a fruitless effort to change those rules, but don't seem to have done anything to even try for a local agreement that neither side will pick adult players already capped for the other.

Ultimately Shane Duffy, say, hasn't really wasted our time by playing. His place in the U-21s would have gone to someone less good. Fcuk knows how many we'd have let in to Iceland then?

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Originally Posted by Co Down Green

No sign of Ealing Green this evening? Must be having a quiet night in, in front of the telly

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No, that's not EG pictured. Although the mullet reminds me of the one Jeffrey Donaldson used to wear, when he was Enoch Powell's agent/ bodyguard.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I have no hesitation in saying that I have cringed for months at the way the Irish Football Association have dealt with this issue of player eligibility - they certainly got what they had asked for yesterday- FIFA's Eligibility Rules UPHELD

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Agreed. Football administrators are almost always unpopular, and the IFA have an impressive recent record of ****-ups, but this is a completely avoidable PR/ financial ****-up.

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Bitter, in that the right of choice for those born in Northern Ireland who want to play for and represent Northern Ireland must now be respected and upheld also. The singular, "United", Irish International team fantasy is now further away than ever

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Don't see it I'm afraid. The Bitters as you call them will never respect Northern Ireland, or respect any of its elections after 1918, etc.

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Originally Posted by Lopez

What we now have is a de facto all-Ireland team in which the FAI can pick any player from any part of the island. If that player rejects and prefers to play for the North, then so what?

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Quite. Of course you've always had this in principle, but I accept this judgement is important and will weaken us a bit. I like the way you make it seem as if choosing to play for the Republic is the default (OK, I don't, but you know what I mean).

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If there was ever an official united-Ireland team it would only come as a result, in my opinion, of a united British team...a united Ireland state itself would not necesarily see the end of NI

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This is just kite-flying, isn't it? There's no likelihood of either a united British team nor a politically united Ireland in the foreseeable future.

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From my point this is a sweet-sweet moment

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Dulce et Dacorum est? (Sorry, I was talking to a Latin-teaching mate earlier).

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It's now up to the players to choose, and if they're not interested in playing for us, it's either because they feel British or aren't good enough

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Steady on. Half of your squad are guys who I'd guess feel just a little bit British (having lived all their lives in Britain, quite likely with their British parents).

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Most of the Algerian team - according to the commentator - were born in France and had many had played or trained in the youth team. Still France cannot complain as most of their team were born in Africa

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All the French squad were Frenchmen who grew up in France, were they not? Most of the Algerians were French as well, qualifying through (grand)parentage. I doubt France are that bothered. Apart from their obvious advantages of scale over Northern Ireland, they seem to have some more fundamental problems elsewhere?

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Surely much of this money comes from grants from either the local/regional government?

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I'm guessing (t)he(y) meant 'investment' of time from youth coaches as much as anything.

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Oh of course, Taigs, with their endless breeding of provo fodder don't pay taxes

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Perfectly balanced chip on either shoulder alert!

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Originally Posted by Mr Parker

If you are counting people posting ill-informed nonsense I suggest you hop over to OWC, they are winning hands down!!

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Whataboutery alert. Do you think nonsense there justifies nonsense here?

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Originally Posted by Geysir

Or could we credit the IFA with some political nous, stringing along the OWC fanbase, in that it was more important for them to be seen to be doing something than try and explain a lost cause

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Ha ha. Not the daftest thing suggested during this whole sorry mess.

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Originally Posted by awec

I KNOW what football for all is, I fail to see how it is relevant in any way, shape or form to what I said. I fail to see why you brought it up, unless you really don't know what you're talking about?

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If you know what it is, why do you want the IFA to exclude NI born kids from playing football?

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Originally Posted by ifk101

If you know what it is, why do you want the IFA to exclude NI born kids from playing football?

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You're an absolute fool if you think that Football For All is in any way relevant here. :D

The power of facebook. :D:D:D If only I thought of starting it first. Damn it!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...&v=wall&ref=mf

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Originally Posted by geysir

That would be an interesting theme for a thesis...They were looking at the globe, calling it flat and thick enough to go to an appeals court over their flat earth belief.

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Ha, pretty much! At first I was shocked at the obdurateness of the IFA. I genuinely couldn't believe that they thought that the whole world was incorrect in their interpretation of FIFA's statutes, but I eventually grew to accept it.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Or could we credit the IFA with some political nous, stringing along the OWC fanbase, in that it was more important for them to be seen to be doing something than try and explain a lost cause.

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Maybe that's being a bit generous...

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Originally Posted by Maroon 7

Some talk of a protest outside FAI Headquarters. Rumours of them picking up Maxi in Dundalk on the way down are unconfirmed.

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:laugh:
I had read some posts suggesting a protest. What exactly will they be protesting against? The right of Irishmen to play for the representative teams of the association governing football in Ireland? The Good Friday Agreement?

The 'Amalgamation' will be issuing a statement soon enough, so that might make interesting reading.