Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Saturday, 24th May 2008 - Friendly

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Amen to that. I love the place when Gaelic games are on, but man the football matches have been stinkers there. I can't decide if its the stadium or the novelty fans that seem to get a ticket and dilute the atmosphere. What it highlighted for me is the need for a 10/15/20k stadium for these type of games. There's one being built in Limerick I think :)

Can't wait to get back to the Road.

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Well, if the place is hopping for gaelic games, then surely it can't be the stadium thats responsible for the sh*t atmosphere. The game was boring. I honestly don't know what people expect when Ireland are so mediocre. If we had the likes of McGrath, Keane, Stapleton, Brady, Moran, Whelan etc. still playing, your ears would be ringing walking out of the place. Instead we've a team which mostly consists of somewhat indifferent journeymen who think they are the bees knees because they've managed to get a gig in the premiership. Euro '88, Italia '90 & USA '94 are long gone and we probably won't see the like of those days again.

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

Well, if the place is hopping for gaelic games, then surely it can't be the stadium thats responsible for the sh*t atmosphere. The game was boring. I honestly don't know what people expect when Ireland are so mediocre. If we had the likes of McGrath, Keane, Stapleton, Brady, Moran, Whelan etc. still playing, your ears would be ringing walking out of the place. Instead we've a team which mostly consists of somewhat indifferent journeymen who think they are the bees knees because they've managed to get a gig in the premiership. Euro '88, Italia '90 & USA '94 are long gone and we probably won't see the like of those days again.

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What an utterly idiotic statement. To create an atmosphere, the fans need to make it. The atmosphere was absolutely shocking on Saturday. The fact that it was the first game of our new manager - who is one of the most decorated in history - was an embarrassment. True supporters will cheer on their team through thick and thin. You can see that at plenty of lower league grounds across England or here at LOI grounds. I'm completely sick of Croke Park as there are far too many know-nothing event junkies at the stadium. The stadium was half empty by the time we scored. The least you could expect fans to do is stay until the end of the game no matter how poor we were.

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

What an utterly idiotic statement. To create an atmosphere, the fans need to make it. The atmosphere was absolutely shocking on Saturday. The fact that it was the first game of our new manager - who is one of the most decorated in history - was an embarrassment. True supporters will cheer on their team through thick and thin. You can see that at plenty of lower league grounds across England or here at LOI grounds. I'm completely sick of Croke Park as there are far too many know-nothing event junkies at the stadium. The stadium was half empty by the time we scored. The least you could expect fans to do is stay until the end of the game no matter how poor we were.

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Thats the exact point I'm making.:confused:

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

Thats the exact point I'm making.:confused:

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Yeah seems to me you are both in agreement. I think the problem here is at present many of the fans in Croker are there mainly for the novelty factor of soccer being played in Croker. This will decrease over time. You'll have the same problem to maybe a lesser degree when the new Lansdowne opens.

It also doesn't help that Croker is too large to be filled for certain matches as will be the case with most friendlies.

In GAA matches you'll have a higher proportion of genuine fans at the games and for the big GAA matches the place does be rammed. The layout of the Hill helps also.

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

Thats the exact point I'm making.:confused:

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My apologies. I obviously misread the sentiment of your post.

I knew the day Ireland played Wales that Croke Park wasn't the right place for International Football. Its a shame because it really is a class stadium, and I much prefer its location than Lansdowne.

I did think it was a joke that for a man with such experience as Trapattoni there wasn't a bigger turnout. Although being Italian manager from 2004-2004 he probably would have been used to it.

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

I honestly don't know what people expect when Ireland are so mediocre. If we had the likes of McGrath, Keane, Stapleton, Brady, Moran, Whelan etc. still playing, your ears would be ringing walking out of the place... Euro '88, Italia '90 & USA '94 are long gone and we probably won't see the like of those days again.

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From what I can remember, qualification for those tournaments was achieved more on the back of solid away performances (Belgium '86, Scotland '87, Denmark/Spain '93) and an ability to grind out results against the weaker sides (Hungary, Northern Ireland, Latvia, Albania, etc).

If anything our home form let us down back then, as teams shut up shop and played us at our own game. Our home draws with England and Poland cost us a place in Euro '92, while similar results in the Euro '88 qualifiers (0-0's against Scotland and Belgium) and a heavy defeat by Spain in '93, almost cost us qualification for two more. Our home form was certainly not our strongest point under Charlton, and some of the home performances and atmospheres in those glory days were dreadful. The Italia '90 qualifiers were the exception, but that was probably the easiest qualifying group we've ever had.

Under McCarthy, we were excellent at home, beating Croatia, Yugoslavia, Holland and Iran in the big games. Great atmospheres all round, and considering the squad that McCarthy had, I refuse to believe we won't see days, and atmospheres like that again.

Maybe we will see those days again but I'm not very optimistic. I think along with the changes in society the status of international soccer has also changed. I honestly don't think it means as much to the players as it used to. And while that situation persists there won't be the same relationship between the team and the fans. It might be a bit misty eyed, but in the late 80's and 90's there was a sense that the team and the fans were 2 halves of the same whole. I don't think we can get that back as the players attitudes have changed and the fans attitudes have changed. Maybe it was just a more innocent time back then and now we're all that bit more cynical. The evolution of football as a product and fans as consumers may have a lot to do with this.

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

Well, if the place is hopping for gaelic games, then surely it can't be the stadium thats responsible for the sh*t atmosphere. The game was boring. I honestly don't know what people expect when Ireland are so mediocre. If we had the likes of McGrath, Keane, Stapleton, Brady, Moran, Whelan etc. still playing, your ears would be ringing walking out of the place. Instead we've a team which mostly consists of somewhat indifferent journeymen who think they are the bees knees because they've managed to get a gig in the premiership. Euro '88, Italia '90 & USA '94 are long gone and we probably won't see the like of those days again.

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I disagree completely. The crowds that go to the two codes while not exclusive, are entirely different. In any of the games I've been to croker for Gaa, the atmosphere has been impressive because the games are non-stop from the 1st to the 70th minute, and also because their is an unmerciful amount of ball-busting going on due to a lack of segregation.

Its well noted at this stage that the lack of Irish fans at regular soccer games, or a lack of coherent supporting contributes to the gash atmosphere at home games. Indeed the only decent atmosphere in the more recent lean period for Ireland has been generated by the eL fans. which isn't exactly rocket science considering they're used to it every week. The FAI seriously need to look at the structure they have for ticketing for Lansdowne. Its unlikely they'll be ar*sed at this stage with only 2 more years at croker, but something drastic needs to be done in the new Road. Designating the Hill for away supporters was silly imo. It should have had the home fans. They're should be a seperate family/kids area too, after all language that might be ok to me and football fans in general, probably won't be acceptable to little Jimmy's mum.
I've still yet to see definite numbers for the stands in the new Road but I'd suggest the Home fans are stuck at both ends and if its at the cost of a few hundred seats because of segregation then so be it.

Someone else mentioned they felt croker wasn't right from the very first minute, I agree 100%.

oh and I think the good days will be back and sooner than people think.

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

Maybe we will see those days again but I'm not very optimistic. I think along with the changes in society the status of international soccer has also changed. I honestly don't think it means as much to the players as it used to. And while that situation persists there won't be the same relationship between the team and the fans. It might be a bit misty eyed, but in the late 80's and 90's there was a sense that the team and the fans were 2 halves of the same whole. I don't think we can get that back as the players attitudes have changed and the fans attitudes have changed. Maybe it was just a more innocent time back then and now we're all that bit more cynical. The evolution of football as a product and fans as consumers may have a lot to do with this.

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Rubbish. These lads are the first real set of affluent kids to come through the country. We're all getting used to it. Look at the rugby team, or more specifically Munster. A team more in sync with their fans you will not see. I think the attitude shown by a lot of players in the previous couple of years hasn't been great, and I feel the fact are last 2 managers have had either self confidence issues or gingeritis issues but there is an antithesis there and its growing. Look at Hunt, and to a lesser degree Long. These two in particular when they get onto the pitch look like they'd run through walls for you. There was said to be a clique within the Irish squad in the last campaign (perhaps one was a feel-sorry-for-oneself-clique) but I really am hopeful things are going to change.

PMS Kingdom?

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

Maybe we will see those days again but I'm not very optimistic. I think along with the changes in society the status of international soccer has also changed. I honestly don't think it means as much to the players as it used to. And while that situation persists there won't be the same relationship between the team and the fans. It might be a bit misty eyed, but in the late 80's and 90's there was a sense that the team and the fans were 2 halves of the same whole. I don't think we can get that back as the players attitudes have changed and the fans attitudes have changed. Maybe it was just a more innocent time back then and now we're all that bit more cynical. The evolution of football as a product and fans as consumers may have a lot to do with this.

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I take your point about the late 80s-early 90s being more innocent, and I do believe that marketing has irrevocably changed the relationship between sport and its followers, but even in those glory days, there was a certain amount of grumbling done by people in Irish football about the 'new' football supporters coming to Lansdowne, and a lot of misty-eyed reminiscence for the 'good old days' of Dalymount! Contempt for spoiled 'sunshine' supporters isn't a new concept in Irish football. However, the atmosphere generated at home during the 2002 qualifiers, and for the away game in Paris in '04, shows that there is life in the Irish supporter yet, despite all of us being spoiled into greed-ridden decadence by the Celtic Tiger!

Even Munster fans get criticised for being fair-weather supporters and event junkies, but whatever about the psychology; look at the colour and noise they bring to the big occasions, and how the team is inspired by it. That's all that counts.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

PMS Kingdom?

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What does that mean Paul>? :o

Post-Muppet-Staunton?

Anyone who says International football means nothing to our players, please take a look at Andy Keogh's celebration on Saturday. It meant the world to him.

Am I missing something here or are people taking turns to tell me I'm full of sh*t and then agreeing with me?:confused: I said the atmosphere can only be generated by the fans not the stadium, I said international football doesn't mean as much to players anymore (I should have said senior players), and people cite the example of lads who've only just broken into the team being enthusiastic (give them another year and see what their attitude is then). Hunt will give 110%, as will Doyle & Long and these lads who have only relatively recently made it into the bigtime. They've had to work their b*ll*cks off to get where they are, so they appreciate it more. They are not the rule however, they are the exception. And please spare me the example of Munster and the Red Army. They have a core group of 10,000 or so actual fans (by this I mean people that actually have a bulls notion what is going on during a game). The amount of people I know who went over to Cardiff that wouldn't know a ruck from a haystack was staggering. They went for the ****-up and to say they were there. Zero interest in rugby. These are the clowns that are "diluting" the atmosphere in Croker during the soccer internationals. We all know the type.

I can guarantee you this much. There are a lot of people out there who consider themselves munster rugby supporters and they have been to 2 games. The final in 2006 and the final in 2008. I wouldn't be surprised if they think Munster play their home games in Cardiff.

Jinkxy might you have any suggestions on what the solutions are to our atmospheric problems?

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Jinkxy might you have any suggestions on what the solutions are to our atmospheric problems?

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A constant mexican wave for the full 90 minutes. People love a good mexican wave.:D

For me the biggest problem with the atmostphere is the distance from the pitch. My seats are in the Davin stand and when the ball is up the far side of the pitch it seems miles away so its hard to feel part of it

I can't wait to get out of Croker, the pitch is to big and we are to far away from the action. The football has'nt helped, all you need is a bit of goal-mouth action to get people going.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

Anyone who says International football means nothing to our players, please take a look at Andy Keogh's celebration on Saturday. It meant the world to him.

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You're right. It was a great celebration considering they arent supposed to care.

Just wait and see if we get some decent results the whole mood would change very quickly. The atmosphere in the ground..the attitude of the press...the fans...

It wouldnt take too much. There is still a love for the team out there.

He kissed the badge. It was a class moment. I didn't see it at the match(Hill 16), but when I got home it made me feel good.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Jinkxy might you have any suggestions on what the solutions are to our atmospheric problems?

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I do... put a lid on the stadium and pump in nitrous oxide.

great atmosphere - presmably poor football.

well 1 out of 2 is better than 0 out of 2

Terrible game.... I thought Richard Dunne was one of the worst on the park. Gave the ball straight to them every time.

On atmospheres: Landsdown hasnt been all that great in recent years

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Originally Posted by bholg

On atmospheres: Landsdown hasnt been all that great in recent years

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The atmosphere at Lansdowne was in decline since the early 90's.

The atmosphere at the qualifiers for Italia 90 (in '89) were vocal and intense and drove the players on. I recall continuous chants and singing a full hour before the Hungary game in '89. Once we qualified for a World Cup it wasn't long before the ignorami were in attendance throughout the West Stand.

When the bucket seats were added and we lost the terraces (FAI had no option on this one as all grounds had to be all-seater unless you got a dispensation) it destroyed the atmosphere completely. That communal and almost tribal vibe that is unique to a terrace was lost.

For those that regularly go to home games when was the last game that had a truly electrifying atmosphere? I wasn't there but would I be right in saying against Holland in 2001? I remember Van Gaal coming up with all sorts of excuses after the game and saying it was so loud that he couldn't get his instructions across to the players. Has there been any game since then with such an atmosphere? I can't believe that is almost 7 years ago now. I nearly bit my fingers off (the nails were gone before half-time) when listening to it on the radio.

Its been a long time since there has been any atmosphere at Ireland home games, a bell ringing apart. Portugal at home the same year is the last one I can remember. The France game 05' had a nervous tension to it but it disipated after henry scored.

Croke park has been awful so far in terms of atmosphere.

I've been going to Ireland games since 200 and without doubt Holland 2001 was the greatest game i've been at. Unbelievable. The atmosphere before the French game a few years back was electric too. Unfortunately not many apart from them two...


Croke Park really takes the biscuit though. Full of f*cking daytrippers. Am I one of the few who now refuses to take part in Mexican waves especially when we're losing?

I hate Mexican waves.

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Originally Posted by Red&White Rover

I've been going to Ireland games since 200 and without doubt Holland 2001 was the greatest game i've been at. Unbelievable. The atmosphere before the French game a few years back was electric too. Unfortunately not many apart from them two...


Croke Park really takes the biscuit though. Full of f*cking daytrippers. Am I one of the few who now refuses to take part in Mexican waves especially when we're losing?

I hate Mexican waves.

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What's the story with this whole my sh*te smells sweeter than those people who participate in a Mexican wave on this site? I've noticed it a number of times. Seems a bit snobbish tbh in my opinion for a working class man's sport like football.

Probably more suited to a tennis or rugby match.

I'll be in London tonight. I'm going to try to start one to p*ss you all off particularly if we are getting hammered.

If you want atmosphere at an Irish game then you have to go to the away games I'm afraid. Croke Park is like a morgue when the football is on. I've heard people behind me say "who does Duff play for nowadays?". Clearly we have a lot of people going to the games who aren't football fans - consequently the atmosphere suffers.

Maybe it is because we have had nothing to play for? Maybe it is because the players have not put in an inspired performance to raise the roof and blood pressure? Even still it's sad that a 70,000 crowd can hardly raise a whisper. If you stand up your told to sit down, if you shout too loudly your looked upon as a lunatic. Sterile and stale. Something needs to be done but solutions are not easy to come by. We have one song and when that is repeated 15 times we start the mexican wave!

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Originally Posted by youngirish

What's the story with this whole my sh*te smells sweeter than those people who participate in a Mexican wave on this site? I've noticed it a number of times. Seems a bit snobbish tbh in my opinion for a working class man's sport like football.

Probably more suited to a tennis or rugby match.

I'll be in London tonight. I'm going to try to start one to p*ss you all off particularly if we are getting hammered.

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Your post comes across as stupid.

I've noticed that it is a bit dead in Croker but the atmosphere away from home is unbelievable.

I was watching the England match last night and heard a few times throughout the game they were singing their national anthem. Why can't we do that? It gets everyones hair on their neck up and the start of the game. Why not try it throughout the match it will definitely motivate the lads. I'm sure it would even get the prawn sandwich eaters of their bums.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Your post comes across as stupid.

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Coming from a man who on another forum earlier thought Jim Broadbent was only in Indiana Jones because Lucas and Spielberg had been fans of Only Fools and Horses and decided to give a struggling actor from an episode 25 years ago a cameo. Are you for real?

If that's an indication of your high and mighty intelligence I'll take your put down as a compliment thanks very much.

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Originally Posted by joe_barry80

I've noticed that it is a bit dead in Croker but the atmosphere away from home is unbelievable.

I was watching the England match last night and heard a few times throughout the game they were singing their national anthem. Why can't we do that? It gets everyones hair on their neck up and the start of the game. Why not try it throughout the match it will definitely motivate the lads. I'm sure it would even get the prawn sandwich eaters of their bums.

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Ah now in fairness, England has hardly the atmosphere we want to emulate. They have the same problem as us.

I do agree about the anthem though. That would be class. But could you imagine 'west brits' starting Amhran na bhfiann mid match in Croker?

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Originally Posted by joe_barry80

I've noticed that it is a bit dead in Croker but the atmosphere away from home is unbelievable.

I was watching the England match last night and heard a few times throughout the game they were singing their national anthem. Why can't we do that? It gets everyones hair on their neck up and the start of the game. Why not try it throughout the match it will definitely motivate the lads. I'm sure it would even get the prawn sandwich eaters of their bums.

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I agree totally. Every game I've been to at Croke Park has been dire in terms of atmosphere. I missed the home Slovakia game which I heard had a great atmosphere - don't think it's a coincidence that this was our best performance at Croke Park. But was it the crowd that got the players going or vice versa? It's usually a bit of both i suppose.

The national anthem would be a more than welcome addition to "stand up the boys in green" and simply "Ireland". At least we'd have three chants/songs then!

Its like Groundhog Day here after everygame regarding the atsmosphere, everybody knows the problems, everybody knows part of the solution but realistically there is sweet FA we can do about it other than bombard the FAI wrt a singing section for LR. - Croke Park is beyond help, there is more atsmosphere on Mars

Saturday was particularily bad especially those leaving early and especially it being Traps 1st game. My own excuse - miscalulated the amount of alcohol I could consume, hot weather etc and was slightly inebriated during the game.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

What's the story with this whole my sh*te smells sweeter than those people who participate in a Mexican wave on this site? I've noticed it a number of times. Seems a bit snobbish tbh in my opinion for a working class man's sport like football.

Probably more suited to a tennis or rugby match.

I'll be in London tonight. I'm going to try to start one to p*ss you all off particularly if we are getting hammered.

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We definitely do need to do something about the atmosphere, but mexican waves are not the answer. I can begrudgingly accept them in a friendly but at any point during a qualifier they are not helpful at all. Even if you are standing, people jumping up and waving their hands prevents you from seeing what is happening on the pitch, and IMO it does affect the players, particularly when people start booing when the mexican wave isn't continued on around the whole stadium. When the booing begins the players often seem to be bewildered as to what is going on and lose concentration, probably because they're wondering why half the stadium is booing.

If there were more people willing to think up of new songs there would be very little demand for a mexican wave. You don't see mexican waves at the Bernabau, the Nou Camp, the San Siro or Anfield, along with other stadiums with top atmospheres. IMO all they are is a tacky Americanisation of our sports.

Without meaning to insult you, you have admitted in the past to not really going to Ireland games regularly. Now, if I stayed at home to watch the matches then I would have no real understanding of what is wrong with a mexican wave at the game. Perhaps once you start going to games you'll see why they're so unwelcome.

The dreaded mexican wave is not a new phenonmenon lads - its been ****ing people off at Ireland games for at least 20 years!!!!

Simple problem with people singing the national anthem is that most people's grasp of Irish is abysmal & you'd get coordinated mumbling across the stands as the crowd bluffed their way through the lines ;)

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

Without meaning to insult you, you have admitted in the past to not really going to Ireland games regularly. Now, if I stayed at home to watch the matches then I would have no real understanding of what is wrong with a mexican wave at the game. Perhaps once you start going to games you'll see why they're so unwelcome.

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The usual ill informed tripe from jmurphy. Did you just make the above assumption up that I've no history of going to games or did it have some actual basis in reality? Maybe you seen an old post and removed that most important word recently from it when referring to my attendance at Ireland matches.

In the past I've gone to many Ireland games. I was at all the home qualfiiers for both the 1990 and 1994 wc qualfiers when you were probably at home playing with your power rangers. For the past 8 years I've mostly lived and worked abroad so it's a tad difficult for me to go to every Ireland game considering I work 5 days a week in various locations far and wide. Anyway I've been at plenty of other football games besides Ireland ones on three continents so I'll go with the smart money here and state I don't really have too much to learn from yourself in this repect (here's a snippet of information for you they actually use Mexican waves at other football matches in other countries also).

Thanks for the education. How did I get this far through life without your titbits of knowledge?

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

The dreaded mexican wave is not a new phenonmenon lads - its been ****ing people off at Ireland games for at least 20 years!!!!

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Exactly they were present regularly at Lansdowne in the old Charlton days when probably most of the heads giving out about them on here only followed GAA instead.