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The ref made a correct decision with the handball awarded against Georgia, the Georgian needlessly stretched his upper arm towards the ball making contact with it, that's a penalty, but ever so softly conceded.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Clear at 55 seconds in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvewicmRNdw
The penalty against Georgia was clear and the referee was in the perfect position to see it. We should have won that game comfortably, 3 or 4-1. We did have some shocking performances under Trap but they were all in the most recent campaign. Before that we were controlled without ever being particularly dominant.
ThE Armenian goalkeeper was correctly sent off. Who knows what would have happened if we had to play in Tblilisi? TOWK is going all David Kelly. We won in Macedonia and Armenia, so winning in Georgia might not be too hard to imagine. We drew innMontenegro, a far better team.
Some of the performances in both campaigns were crap, but we made second place quite comfortably, even without draws in Moscow and Bari.
TOWK, seriously, do you also think the ref was right not to award Doyle a penalty against Georgia, and to chalk off Andrews' goal? For the sale of balance you have to answer this.
Obviously both were dark days but how is getting trashed by Cyprus almost the same as getting trashed by Germany?
And how was Kazakhstan away almost as bad as San Marino?
We lost 1-6 at home to Germany! 0-6 until the last minute. Worst home result in history. Let's not blow up Germany to mythical proportions. They drew 4-4 with Sweden.
Ireland lost 5-2 away to Cyprus. Granted Cyprus are a small team but this is the same team that people laud Trapattoni for getting 3 points against, so they are hardly that bad?! And Cyprus hammered Bulgaria 4-1 in the next Qualifying campaign; so are we better than Bulgaria now? Does that lessen our achievement of pipping Bulgaria to second?
As for the Kazakhstan and San Marino games, the performances were as bad as each other and the results glossed it all over.
Your drunk off your bottom if you think losing 6-1 to one of the best team's in the world is the same as losing 5-2 to a minnow. Particularly in the context of a jaded, demoralised squad and under pressure manager versus a supposedly fresh take and a new era.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
TOWK you argue fairly coherently, but your posts point to a classic case of everything Trap did was a mistake and everything that went right for Ireland was a fluke. It's just not credible.
Nobody is lauding Trap for getting 6 points off Cyprus as if that's an end in itself. In my case I was pointing out that getting 5 points more from Cyprus than in the previous campaign is a decent indication of the stability that Trap introduced post-Stan.
In my opinion Trap brought stability when it was needed - and he deserves credit for it even if it was dull and uninspiring - but once this had been achieved he failed to add to this. The game moved on and left us behind. I would like to think that the know-how / streetwiseness we acquired on the road under Trap will remain in the set up.
And TOWK, any comment on the Doyle non-penalty and the Andrews non-goal at home to Georgia? Sure we got some breaks under Trap, but we got some stuff go against us too. It was by no means all one-sided.
germany were 4 up from memory in that game and coming only a few days after tonking us 6-1 took their foot off the pedal and let Sweeden back in.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
The current German team is a fine team and will be well in contention at the WC
And Cox's disallowed goal away to Macedonia. Or was that cancelled out by the missed penalty?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Yes, they were both awful performances, but Kazakhstan are a lot better than San Marino. You should be able to play awful against San Marino and still win 3-0/4-0. Kazakhstan later took points off Austria... "a handful as the group went on", some might say :DQuote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
You use the only game where Germany dropped points to show how fallible they really are! Most reasonable people would accept that getting trounced by Germany isn't nearly as bad as getting trounced by a relative minnow, record defeat or not.
5-2 away to Cyprus is tempered somewhat by a rookie manager way out of his depth. Away games in international football are always tricksy.
6-1 at home to Germany with a well decorated and highly lauded manager is unforgivable. We've faced some mighty, mighty teams competitively in Dublin and never been tanked even close to as badly as that.
Both results embarrassing, both shameful. The Germany one shades it for me.
I f*cking hate Trap.
They lost by the odd 1 or 2 goals against Poland, Slovakia, Belgium and Wales in the same time period. And we beat them 5-0 in the home game.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I don't think there's much difference between one laughable performance against San Marino and one against Kazakhstan.
We were winning against San Marino with 86 minutes left, a situation Trapattoni would have been pretty happy with, and we were losing against Kazakhstan approaching stoppage time.
Anyways. Won both games though the performances were laughable and signs of things to come in respective eras.
As for the Germany game, will people stop trying to justify a 1-6 loss at home to Germany? It is not normal for a team of Ireland's standard to lose by that margin to a team of that standard, nor was it normal to get so utterly trounced in the Euros, nor was it so to put in the derisible home and away performances we did against Russia.
I honestly give Trapattoni the credit he deserves for the stabilising job he performed but I will equally criticise him when it's merited.
Don't agree that we should be brushing off 0-4 and 1-6 losses to Spain and Germany. We are not Liechtenstein, we are Ireland. We are better than Scotland and significantly better than Northern Ireland and they don't get trounced by teams like Spain in competitive games.
They also lose to Luxembourg.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
I think there is quite a bit of difference between San Marino away and Kazakhstan away. The Kazaks are a significantly better team, one we should still be beating, but with players of a much higher standard than San Marino. The distance also gives them a more significant home advantage, Dublin to Bologna (or Rimini or which ever airport you fly to) is around 2-3 hours whereas the flight to Kazakhstan was over 8 hours and included a stop - it was like a friendly in the East Coast of the US in terms of distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
To put the gap in quality into context San Marino have only won one match in their history a friendly vs Licthenstein, and they only have 4 draws - against Licthenstein (again), Latvia, Turkey, Lebanon and the Vatican City. A draw with Turkey sounds impressive - until you realise it was in 1993 when Turkish football was in the doldrums (that draw was Turkey's only away point in qualification).
Kazakhstan have only been in UEFA since 2006 World Cup Qualification. In that time, in competitive matches and ignoring victories over minnows like the Faeroes they've drawn with Belgium and Austria (twice), beaten Serbia and won in Armenia. They are clearly harder opposition than San Marino.
I don't think the Russia away performance was that bad. It wasn't great football but the way other results had panned out in the group getting a point and not getting beaten was key, we did that. Russia away is a pretty tough fixture in European football, in the last 10 years in competitve games they have only lost to Germany and Slovakia at home, in that time they have beaten teams like England, Portgual, Switzerland and ourselves (under Mick). I think, in terms of getting a draw out there, it's harsh to say the performance was derisibile.Quote:
As for the Germany game, will people stop trying to justify a 1-6 loss at home to Germany? It is not normal for a team of Ireland's standard to lose by that margin to a team of that standard, nor was it normal to get so utterly trounced in the Euros, nor was it so to put in the derisible home and away performances we did against Russia.
That was such a nice day, the day we came away with the draw in Moscow,
then for dessert that evening, watch Armenia run Slovakia ragged.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...-29969751.html
Vincent Hogan defends Steve Staunton.
I'll never have bad feelings towards Stan. Was one of my favourite players growing up. And the way he reinvented himself as an international class centre half - despite being slower than a Trap tactical revolution - just in time for WC 2002 was simply brilliant. He was always a competitor, but on the pitch he was particularly astute and intelligent too. People shouldn't let his managerial stint overshadow that.
I don't, and I never have. For as long time, I've said the finger of blame for his reign was to be pointed squarely at Delaney, who initially claimed Staunton was his man, and when things went south changed his tune to "a committee appointment". If I was offered the position of manager of Ireland, of course I'd take it. I know I'd be terrible, but I would never be able to turn down that opportunity!
I agree but he hasn't shown much humility since the job. He still feels a sense of injustice I think.
Indeed, one of my favourite players of that era and agree, not his fault he was offered the job and appointed, but agree with Stutts about his utterances since in relation to it all. They have left a lot to be desired in terms of awareness of how off the pace he was in the role. Also I remember one time Bobby Robson being sent out next day to face the radio interview in the final throws of the reign, and I thought Staunton should have fronted up and did that interview himself. He was happy enough to bullishly pronounce himself as 'da gaffer' over Robson when they were initially unveiled, but when it was tail spinning, da gaffer hid. And some of the vitriol Robson faced that day was far less dignified than how he dealt with it in his replies. He shouldn't have had to deal with it at all, or alone anyway, as the decisions weren't his to account for surely, I lost respect for Staunton that day.
Humility requires conscious realisation. I don't wish to bad-mouth who was a legendary player for us either, but I fear Stan was so out-of-his-depth, his failing never really dawned on him. He strikes me as more naïvely deluded than slyly stubborn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
It's hard not to feel sorry for Stan. He was promoted above his station into a very difficult he wasn't experienced/talented enough to handle and it's pretty much killed his coaching career dead. I'd have more respect for him if he just admitted he wasn't up to it and said he's willing to do everything he can to learn from it and become better, but I don't think anyone expects him to come roaring back in the future.
Declared bankrupt - seems poor film fund investments.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-35250880.html
He should have stashed some money in offshore Swiss accounts.
Sad news for one of the great Irish players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
I'd forgotten about that attempt to assassinate Stan with a machine gun.