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Didn't you hear the latest rumour?Quote:
Originally Posted by eekers
Mick with Roy assisting. Stan will be the consultant.
Agree with that post on the other page, it's a pity Saipan happened- if he was judged purely on his footballing results, achieving no lower than 2nd place cannot be second guessed.
He was a fantastic manager for us before, and I believe he could do the job again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eekers
My point was i dontgive a s*** about personalities all i want is to have the best person in the job and if we are realistic and look at Mick's results ignoring 1 incident which can never be changed, we didnt do too bad.
And if he gets the job he will have to have dealings with Roy if he wants Sunderland players released.
Keane and Quinn have kissed and madde up
Keane and McCarthy have shaken hands!
So if the only problem is supporters who cant put their personal feeling to one side to support the team we'd be better off without them as supporters.
If the devil could play soccer and was good enough to be on the team id welcome him with open arms
how exactly does a fictional supernatural being qualify for ireland these days?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenforever
Coz he's got an Irish granny - Grandmother from Wanderley Wagon.
Sheesh...
couldnt agree more. if our "fans" constantly let something that happened six years ago affect their opinions on our team and who manages it then maybe they deserve someone like stan to manage the team. roy and mick have got over it so why cant everyone else? please please can we please move on from saipanQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenforever
you just cant keep roy out of the news....
http://www.independent.ie/world-news...s-1259893.html
Is that picture not Andy Cole after Roy had started booting chairs around and thrown that derssing room tantrum that Clive Clarke mentioned last weekend??? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Bring back macarthy......bring back one win in four games meaning a succesful world cup....bring back going a goal down to andorra at home....bring back denis irwin having to prove him wrong....bring back hammering malta 3-2 away....bring back "I had two Macedonias"...bring back ian harte in central defence....bring back only picking premiership players....bring back the wing back system....bring back send your best player home from the world cup:rolleyes:.....bring back cathal dervan .....bring back Mark Kennedy......bring back kevin kilbane keeping Damien Duff out of the team......bring back the farce that was the Russia away game...bring back Mick Byrne.....oh wait a minute:eek:
Don't. You will upset big Mick's loyal fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
..or no defeat in 4 games except on penos, including draws with two world powers (Spain and Germany) in 90 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Think we won that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
No one, even if he plays for MANCHESTER UNITED, is entitled to automatic selection even if he is about to be released from Man U in his mid thirties apart from the fact Mick didn't say that. WHat he said was "go and prove me wrong" and that is a very different thing than telling him to go out and prove himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
.I'll take that hammering anytime for an Irish team notoriously dodgy on its travels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Quite a funny expression really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Needs must and I say that as a non-Harte fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
That's a criticism?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Nothing ventured.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
If he doesn't want to be there in the first place and already had spit the dummy twice, why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
etc etc
Bring back "fans" running after the team bus and spitting at him. Bring back players calling him English. Bring back the second manager only to qualify us for the World Cup. Bring back the only manager who cared enough to shed tears when his country lost in a play off. Bring back an upright and honourable person.
Anyway, all academic because it won't happen in a month of Sundays. I am not a huge McCarthy fan and Mick is not and was not perfect but no one can deny that 2 play-offs and a WC qualification in 7 years with a patchy team is by no means bad. Every manager makes mistakes and he did too - I recall a fairly windy approach to playing a so-so Croatian team in Zagreb and losing 0-1 to a last-minute goal - but the good definitley outweighed the bad. His record with English clubs is, overall, a good one too. Don’t forget that his fairly mediocre Sunderland team walked away with the Championship. His experience with that team in the Premiership wasn’t good but, unlike the present incumbent, he didn’t have much dosh.
Not to mention leaving his father on his deathbed to take charge out in Cyprus in March '01. How people (not suggesting Bill here) can "hate him" is beyond me.
Curate's egg of a manager first time around. A lot more that can be said about Stan.
Bringing him back would be way too divisive & would immediately and constantly distract attention from the real issues: performances & qualification.
A different approach is needed.
it wouldnt be a given that it would immediately be divisive in my opinion. if results and performances were good then peoples problems with mick would soon be forgotten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
as i said earlier there are problems with all the people being mentioned. i honestly believe that mick has better proven credentials to manage us than any of the other realistic candidates
Yeah!! McCarthy made mistakes.. It's too easy to highlight them, but the fact is he cut his teeth in management at our expense (A breif stint at Millwall aside)... Which Is why I hate the thought of young managers at international level...
But it can be said without doubt that he was a better manager leaving us in 2001 that he was when he got the job, and it could be argued that he's better again since given what he achieved with Sunderland with literally a fraction of the support Keane has now..
McCarthy wouldn't be my first choice by any stretch, but he's no where enear as bad an option as some make out..
I think we'll agree to disagree on that point jb. I think there are many out there who think that Mick is the devil incarnate and will never change their minds. Just like people will always think that Robbie should be dropped, that O'Shea is literally our "worst player ever" etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
exactly, and that should be the end of it. It's obvious that we all have our (mostly conflicting) views of McCarthy the manager and that we're definitely not going to agree at this stage but I think that most of us can agree that bringing him back would not be the best move for Irish as it would drag up the remnants of Saipan and would be far too divisive....Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The whole debate is just getting repetitive and boring at this stage....
I wouldn't want or think Mick will get the job but the man sweated blood for us and was a fine captain and manager. He made mistakes like all managers do and stuck with Kilbad like all the others since when Duffer was on top of his game for Balckburn etc. He won't get the job I reckon its Houllier but then again it wouldn't suprise me if El Tel rides into town
thats what debate is about! agree with much of what you say but i think the anti-mick "fans" would soon be won over if things went wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
In 90 minutes? Unfortunatley in a knockout tournament that isnt good enough. Spain had two goals disallowed and Ireland were given two penos. Spain also were down to ten men for most of extra time.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Andorra werent exactly famed for there scoring prowess at the time…Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Come on…he wasn’t in his mid thirties….and he was a very good player still at the time….Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
.
Well conceding two goals away to malta wouldn’t suggest the team was sent out with the right attitude by the manager?Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Once was a mistake, twice is just carelessQuote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
It is when most of your players were playing outside of it….Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
…………nothing understood….Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
mmmmmm…managers job to look after everyone and have the best players available out on the pitch. Players job to look after themselves…Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
No idea what your talking about but if its as accurate as …..Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
He is English….and no player ever called him that.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
No…please don’t…..we shouldn’t waste another 6 years before he can get us to another one…Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Well if he cried he must care!!!! Ha ha!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Only question is with him…..why are wolves so keen to get rid of him?
Other than the fact that he is touting for other jobs while still in a job……mmmmm……not unlike his time with Ireland then….
correctly, for offside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
This statement is a joke. Why is it that some players hardly ever miss a penalty. Or why in the WC final last year, all penalties were scored except for one that hit the underside of the bar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenforever
It was a knockout phase of the biggest tournament in the world and the chance that it would end in a draw after 120 minutes was high. Therefore, practicing penalties is extremely important at that stage in a competition and not just a 'lottery'.
One look at some of Irelands penalties against Spain in 2002 illustrates just why players should practise their penalties.
Scored 5 out of 5 in 1990 without any formal practice other then the bets as to who could put one past Quinn in goal. There was easilly as much practice undertaken in 2002.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torn-Ado
England practiced penalties in 2006, didn't seem to do them much good....
Wasn't there a large amount of press dedicated to the fact that England were spending time practising penalties in their training camp before the World Cup? Didn't do them much good against Portugal did it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torn-Ado
Cant agree with that. Look at Robbie Recently : Money-on to score if Spurs got a spot kick , but recently, theres a quiver in his confidence. In a tournament situation, who's to say that your 5 dead eye, ice-in-the-veins penalty takers will all have the nerve & vigour on the day, whether they've been practicing or not?
What if your preferred first 5 shooters dont have the bottle to volunteer? Or have been Injured, rested or sent off?
The solution there is of course to make sure your entire squad practices penalties so there'll never be a shortfall. "Total Deadball" as it were, however, this is about as practical as having them practice to be tall.
You could practice penalty taking all you want. Each penalty is a different mathematical equasion producing vastly different results.
Then you have Arsenal's set of unstoppable penalties to win the FA cup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWlOLJ-2JSs
It's not going to be foolproof 100% of the time. Portugal may well have practised that bit more. But the attitude was right. Why does Golfers always practise 4 ft putts in Golf? So when the time comes, they'll be ready no matter how easy it looks.
One thing is for sure. If Mick had actually practised penalties in the WC and left the 'Sort it out yourselves lads' attitude at home, we could have done a lot better. Some of the penalties that day were the worst I ever seen.
Keane & Finnan's were good, Holland a bit unlucky but Connolly & Kilbane's weren't worthy of professional footballers. Shockingly inept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torn-Ado
heard liam brady say once that the way to practise pens was to tell the keeper in training which side you were going to put it to and still try and score. seeing as we would be a far better team if we could only get our penalty taking right maybe brady is the man for the job!Quote:
Originally Posted by Torn-Ado
Yep, not worng there. Thing is, had Holland scored (and like you I thought he was very unlucky) who's to say that the pressure wouldn't have been less on Connolly and Kilbane and they my have struck their penalties better? The fact Holland had hit the bar put us on the back foot and changed the dynamic. Every shoot out is different, you can't practice for the pressure involved or replicate how your legs are going to be after 120 minutes. Still think it was unforgiveable of Quinn to bottle taking one given that he'd been in the situation before in teh play offs with Sunderland and buried his peno that day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Personally I had every man in the sqaud numbered from 1 to 23 in order of where they're going to take their penalties if they're on the pitch so at least that's sorted out in advance but you'll never recreate the situation and pressure meaningfully on a training ground.
As for the golfing analogy, I've always laughed at that, how many times have you seen golfers miss putts that they'd knock away in their sleeep on a practice round when the chips were down. Look at Garcia in the open for example....
I didn't envy them their task but their demeanor even on the run up to the ball spoke volumes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
As we all know, we should have nicked that game in extra time before it got to peno's.
Your statement shows your complete lack of understanding of the game, while the highest level i ever played was amateur league, i was involved in two penalty shoot outs as a player on sucessive weeks, the first week we practised before hand and were well beaten, the following week same players took them no practice before, and all scored, as i said it is a lottery no matter if it's schoolboy or world cupQuote:
Originally Posted by Torn-Ado
It takes a lot of Liathroidi to step up and take a penalty in the WC, whether you have practiced or not
All about your ability to stay calm.
Practice helps some people stay calm, and there are others who will always bottle it under pressure.
To say that it is pure luck though simply isn't true. There are techniques which can increase your success rate- I remember Doyle saying he had read a German book on penalty taking which helped him score a few in his first Premiership season.
Yes, but it also takes a lot to play in the World Cup. Whilst penalties are more of a lottery than open play, if you continually practice them you will get better at them and have a better chance of scoring. To say it doesn't matter whether you practice them or not is a complete joke IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckydee
would really like mick back...he is a good manager who would have the respect of the senior players like keane, finnin and duff..also worked with a lot of Irish youth at wolves
Sorry I think your example does not prove jack ****. Practice makes perfect. Just becaue you have anectotal evidence of it not work is hardly proof that your theory stands up. In all walks of live and esp high level sport it is proven that those who practice the most generally turn out to be the best. Add to this their god given talent and you get the likes of Tiger Woods. Of course if you practice practice practice there is still a chance at that moment in time you may miss but there is less chance that will happen. If practising was not worth it, why would players practice freek kicks, or set pieces or any act of defending or to be honest any part of training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenforever
Finally I know this is anecdotal but it still pretty much stands up. The Germans, they practice and they study other peoples penalties and they have only lost 1 penalty shoot in their history and in addition they have only missed 1 penalty in World Cups.
Interesting study - http://www.umcg.nl/azg/nl/english/nieuws/91006
Quote:
If you believe that taking penalties is a lottery, then you are more likely to fail
23 juni 2006 Football players who believe that taking penalties is a lottery are not only mistaken, but are also more receptive to anxiety-induced stress...
Anyone tell that to Dave O'Leary ;) ?
We all know O'Leary doesn't exactly have low self-esteem - if he thought penos were a lottery then he was 100% confident he had the winning ticket (even if the rest of us weren't :))Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I understood that O´Leary took a lot of penalties in practice.
When he stepped forward to take that penalty in Genoa I thought well he must be good so we are alright.
WHile i accept what you are saying, I personally believe it's a lottery given that its 5 v 5 not a single player taking one, and given that the situation changes all the time depending on if your ahead or playing catch up etc, as regards studying other peoples penalties, id agree the keeper should have studied all potential opposing penalty takers.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Anyway we'll have to agree to disagree on this one :D
Practice makes perfect. If I was a professional footballer and I entered a competition which involved penalty shoot outs I'd want to practice. It's impossible to replicate the crowd and the pressure but you can make sure your striking the ball correctly and work on trying to feint the keeper.
That is one impressive statistic. If penalties were a lottery then they'd surely have a higher miss rate?Quote:
The Germans, they practice and they study other peoples penalties and they have only lost 1 penalty shoot in their history and in addition they have only missed 1 penalty in World Cups.