Maddy McCann

I read this morning that people donated nearly £1M to the Maddy "fighting fund" and that the McCanns will be applying to use some of the money for their legal bills incurred over the allegations.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2426647.ece

I wonder how the fund was administered and set up in the first place. Had the people who donated envisaged that they might be funding a criminal defence case for someone (rather than the campaign to find the girl) I somehow doubt that money would have been given.

Don't think they'll be allowed to use the Maddy fund to finance their legal team endabob, didn't read into why they wouldn't, but an 'expert' on these matters also said today that they wouldn't legally be able to as it was solely set up as a Search for Maddy fund.

If the parents go down that road, or try to at least it will severely turn public opinion against them I feel

I don't think they will either but I think it says a lot about them they are considering using it.......

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Originally Posted by pete

Hows about reporting the facts not presenting speculation as facts?

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Come on Pete, it's part of the IN&M group!

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Originally Posted by Macy

Come on Pete, it's part of the IN&M group!

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INvent & Makeup?

I heard a theory today about why the McCanns & their friends were in Portugal for the holiday. I believe it was mentioned in one of the Sunday papers & would be something they would not want public... Would explain the alleged syringes too...

With speculation like that I might get a job with IN&M ;)

The portugese prosecutor has applied to a judge for the immediate seizure of a single piece of evidence.

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Originally Posted by Risteard

The portugese prosecutor has applied to a judge for the immediate seizure of a single piece of evidence.

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News this morning on the Radio says its a clump of the little girls hair alledgedly found in the boot of the car ?:(

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Originally Posted by Risteard

I was under the impression that DNA was identical before and after death.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

That statement doesn't make any sense to me either. Sounds like something from the Sun. Usually time of death is calculated by looking at the state of internal organs, and the type of bacteria and/or insects that are currently 'working' on the body. You might be able to get a very, very vague idea of the time the blood left the body via decomposition, but I very much doubt you can tell whether the person was dead or not at the time. I very much doubt DNA comes into it at any level, bar identification.

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The source was on Monday evenings Last Word (iirc), apparently they could tell via the substance found if the child was dead or alive and give a (vague) assumption as to the length of time she was dead from it. From the same substance they could get the DNA. As I said I am no Bio-Chemist and can only go on the word of so-called ‘Experts’.

I was assuming that it was blood that was found but that is seemingly not the only substance it could be.

They said that there was a substantial amount of hair found more than what could come from a blanket and some body fluid not blood i guess that would be saliva found in the boot of the car .


The guy on the last word last night said as well that you can tell if a person was dead when the sample was left as when you die your genetic structure changes, But as some one else raised with the media hounding them every second how could they have found time to sneak off get the body and move it with out a single paparatzi on there tail . The flight home was ment to be a secret and look at the amount of press that followed them to the airport .



Something ive allways wondered about DNA evidence they say it can prove who you are to 1 in a billion but with 6.5 billion in the world doesnt that mean that it just narrows it down to 6 or 7 people ? I know you would normally have other evidence to go with it but im sure people have been convicted on just DNA evidence .

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Originally Posted by baileban

The missus said it to me on day one - they looked too strong and composed on day one - if my child had gone missing I would have been a quivering wreck - far from being able to handle a worldwide media campaign.

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Not defending them or anything but everyone reacts to shock & disaster in different ways. They are used to having to tell people that someone they love is dying/dead and are trained to remove themselves emotionally from situations. This training may have kicked in and then as time wore on & they realised fully it was their little girl & they were emotionally involved, then the cracks began to show.

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Originally Posted by anto1208

Something ive allways wondered about DNA evidence they say it can prove who you are to 1 in a billion but with 6.5 billion in the world doesnt that mean that it just narrows it down to 6 or 7 people ?

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yes but that is infinately more accurate than the previous methods relied upon like fingerprints which would only go down to 1 in millions.

a 1 in a billion shot is extremely accurate imo. 6 or 7 possible matches worldwide is massive when you consider the chances of a similar match being in the same place at that time. the 1 in a billion is a genetic possibility AFAIK but the actual chances would but far, far less

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Originally Posted by Magicme

Not defending them or anything but everyone reacts to shock & disaster in different ways. They are used to having to tell people that someone they love is dying/dead and are trained to remove themselves emotionally from situations. This training may have kicked in and then as time wore on & they realised fully it was their little girl & they were emotionally involved, then the cracks began to show.

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Sorry Magicme I don't buy it, I know it's difficult to imagine someone harming their own child but it happens. There has been something not right about this whole case from the start, things don't add up and the parents actions have not helped.
That said the idea that they have somehow hidden a body and then moved it in a hire car 5/6 weeks later when they were so busy courting the worlds media also seems a little far fetched.
I just hope we get to the truth, whatever that may be.

They now claim that they hid the body in the church. They didnt get a key to the church until weeks later so where was it until then?

There are so many holes in both sides of the story I just cant believe anything at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Magicme

They now claim that they hid the body in the church. They didnt get a key to the church until weeks later so where was it until then?

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Who is they? I presume that is just speculation?

If you sedated a child for whatever reason & that child died you would be struck off the medical register so alongside everything else you would lose your livelihood.

To continue the speculation I would guess both parents are guilty but unless they confess or a body found will never be convicted.

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Originally Posted by endabob1

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That said the idea that they have somehow hidden a body and then moved it in a hire car 5/6 weeks later when they were so busy courting the worlds media also seems a little far fetched.
I just hope we get to the truth, whatever that may be.

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It could have been a friend or family member, using their car.

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Originally Posted by pete

To continue the speculation I would guess both parents are guilty but unless they confess or a body found will never be convicted.

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Touche.
AFAIK, you need a corpse or a confession to convict.

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Originally Posted by Risteard

Touche.
AFAIK, you need a corpse or a confession to convict.

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You obviously don't watch Forensic Detectives on Discovery Science Channel ;)


Lots of cases have been tried and won without confession or body

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Originally Posted by pete

If you sedated a child for whatever reason & that child died you would be struck off the medical register so alongside everything else you would lose your livelihood.

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yeah, thats the worst thing that wuold happen to them if it was proven they had killed their own child...

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Originally Posted by Dodge

yeah, thats the worst thing that wuold happen to them if it was proven they had killed their own child...

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Wasn't the OP speaking to motive?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

yeah, thats the worst thing that would happen to them if it was proven they had killed their own child...

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I meant as an additional 'punishment'. Accidents happen all the time but the manner of this linked to their occupations might trigger the cover up.

There are too many variables here to ever charge anyone with this beyond reasonable doubt. The blame here lies squarely with the Portuguese police, who have displayed ineptitude from day 1. I personally do not believe that the McCanns had anything at all to do with this. The Portuguese police and world media had people wanting to lynch Robert Murat some weeks ago when they thought he did it. Now there is no mention of him at all, as if nothing ever happened. How must he feel? This whole thing stinks.

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

There are too many variables here to ever charge anyone with this beyond reasonable doubt. The blame here lies squarely with the Portuguese police, who have displayed ineptitude from day 1. I personally do not believe that the McCanns had anything at all to do with this. The Portuguese police and world media had people wanting to lynch Robert Murat some weeks ago when they thought he did it. Now there is no mention of him at all, as if nothing ever happened. How must he feel? This whole thing stinks.

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He feels fine Joe. He's currently trying to whore "his story" to whichever of the tabs will take it and seemingly tried to get Max Clifford to "represent" him (this was discussed on RTE Radio 1 yesterday morning). Clifford says he won't deal with him til he's proved innocent (how does one prove a negative?) and frankly -if the Max Cliffords of this world won't deal with you then you are truly the lowliest of the bottom feeders.

Incidently if I recall correctly it was those same tabs that, over the unmarked grave of a little girl let's not forget, he's trying to squeeze for cash now that started the "lynch Robert Murat" campaign as his interest and concern had a whiff of Soham about it.

I'm 99.9% sure Clifford was talking on his behalf on one of the news Channels (either sky or news 24) the other morning. Not sure which day or even what time - the joys of the feeding patterns of a 3 week old! Whether he won't sell the story is a different matter, but he's definitely handling his media.

I don't blame Murat at all tbh, as it appears he was totally innocent and only trying to help after all, and because of the media needing a development he has essentially had his character tarnished for life.

Tomorrows (Friday's) papers all leading with Maddy drugged with sleeping pills stories.

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

There are too many variables here to ever charge anyone with this beyond reasonable doubt. The blame here lies squarely with the Portuguese police, who have displayed ineptitude from day 1. I personally do not believe that the McCanns had anything at all to do with this. The Portuguese police and world media had people wanting to lynch Robert Murat some weeks ago when they thought he did it. Now there is no mention of him at all, as if nothing ever happened. How must he feel? This whole thing stinks.

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It does indeed. First it was claimed that blood was found that 100% matched Madeleine McCann's DNA. Then it changed to 88% match of body fluids. If anything was found in the car it could have been from any members of the fanily or one of the child's belongings that they bring around with them. Also how do you hide a body for 25 days then sneak off with it when the world's media are watching your every move? Also was it checked out who rented the car before the McCanns?

The documents containing the evidence against the McCanns was sent to the judge to examine and claimed it would take weeks to go through it. In the end it took a few hours. I think the McCanns are being framed, similar to the case in Portugal a number of years ago (the same guy is in charge of leading the investigation).

Can you dig that out there and provide a link?
I can't remember anything like that?

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

The blame here lies squarely with the Portuguese police, who have displayed ineptitude from day 1... The Portuguese police and world media had people wanting to lynch Robert Murat some weeks ago when they thought he did it

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The portuguese police never once made any statement on who they did or did not think was the killer. Every quote you ever read was from "an unnamed source". A lot of people's perceptions that it was handled badly has to do with their lack of understanding of the Portuguese legal system, and the way every minor detail was blown up by the media.

People seemed to think that if somebody was made an official witness, that automatically made them a suspect. It didn't. Just like when the McCanns were made official witnesses...

I don't think there's much doubt though Dodge that the Portuguese police have shown a high level of incompetence though is there?

From what we are being told by the "papers" or "unnamed sources", the hire car is a big part of their case. Why then were they allowed to keep driving it?

It's now being suggested that they want Kate's diary and Gerry's lap top. Why almost 4 months later? The fact that British police and sniffer dogs had to come over to assist shows that they were very much out of their depth IMO. The police didn't turn up until about an hour after Maddie was reported missing.

I think it's possible that they are looking for a conviction because of how inept they have been made to look regardless of who has to take the fall.

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Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

I don't think there's much doubt though Dodge that the Portuguese police have shown a high level of incompetence though is there?

From what we are being told by the "papers" or "unnamed sources", the hire car is a big part of their case. Why then were they allowed to keep driving it?

It's now being suggested that they want Kate's diary and Gerry's lap top. Why almost 4 months later? The fact that British police and sniffer dogs had to come over to assist shows that they were very much out of their depth IMO. The police didn't turn up until about an hour after Maddie was reported missing.

I think it's possible that they are looking for a conviction because of how inept they have been made to look regardless of who has to take the fall.

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Therein lies the issue, the police will not reveal any actual details of the investiagtion so everything that is coming out in the papers is conjecture or being fed to them by the McCanns interpretation of what is happening.

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Originally Posted by anto1208

There is nothing to suggest that the cops are incompetent except if you believe what the chief suspects in the case tell you through the redtops.

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i totally agree here.

perhaps the police are incompetent or maybe they are not. there has, until very recently, been very little statements or press releases diectly from the police.

most of the 'developments' and 'news' we got came directly from the McCann's press confrences. the whole 'find maddie' campaign has been driven by Gerry and Kate McCann.

now as I said perhaps the Portuguese police have been incompetent but maybe, just maybe they have actually kept their nose to the ground, stayed quiet and sussed out what actually happened instead of tearing around looking for a child who never was missing in the first place. it's just a thought.

like everything in this strange story it is probably best to wait on making conclusions until all of the facts are available.

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Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

I don't think there's much doubt though Dodge that the Portuguese police have shown a high level of incompetence though is there?

From what we are being told by the "papers" or "unnamed sources", the hire car is a big part of their case. Why then were they allowed to keep driving it?

It's now being suggested that they want Kate's diary and Gerry's lap top. Why almost 4 months later? The fact that British police and sniffer dogs had to come over to assist shows that they were very much out of their depth IMO. The police didn't turn up until about an hour after Maddie was reported missing.

I think it's possible that they are looking for a conviction because of how inept they have been made to look regardless of who has to take the fall.

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Maybe they just want answers to the FORTY question the mother is refusing to answer

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Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

I think it's possible that they are looking for a conviction because of how inept they have been made to look regardless of who has to take the fall.

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are they looking inept in Portugal or is it just in the British press that they look inept????

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Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

Maybe they just want answers to the FORTY question the mother is refusing to answer

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And where did you hear/read that.....in the papers by any chance??

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Originally Posted by galwayhoop

are they looking inept in Portugal or is it just in the British press that they look inept????

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I haven't been in Portugal recently so can't answer that. All I can say is that from I've seen and heard reported , be it news or in the papers, the Portuguese investigation has as many holes in it as the case itself IMO.

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Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

And where did you hear/read that.....in the papers by any chance??

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Sky News

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Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

I haven't been in Portugal recently so can't answer that. All I can say is that from I've seen and heard reported , be it news or in the papers, the Portuguese investigation has as many holes in it as the case itself IMO.

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my point is that it is the British side to the story we are hearing. I include our Anglisised press in that too.

The bottom line is that it is a different country with different cultures. How the police operate in Britain and Ireland is different to Contenental Europe. They have different laws and procedures. The stories we hear are from the British press who from day one have critisised the Portuguese police and their handling of the case.

I personally will hold fire on the performance of the Portuguese police and their ineptitude (or opposite) until the dust settles and the case is finally solved.

if there is anything to be learned from this .... DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ IN THE PAPER

I never do but based on what I see being reported and by the standards used by the Police over here then I have summised that they have looked totally out of their depth with the case.

We are all in the same boat, you either agree or don't agree on their performance by what you have read or seen reported.

Like the way people seem to believe that the Portugese police are inept because they don't keep Sky News or the Sun up to date with every little lead they have :rolleyes: Being that I'm not involved in this case I won't say one way or the other whether they have handled this badly yet, we'll find out what evidence they have if they bring charges against the McCanns, and then if they are able to push through a conviction and then we'll know.

Also does anyone else think it's a bit rich the British papers banging on about dirty foreigners trying to bring false charges against Brits just so they can say they caught someone for the crime committed, and going on about how that would never happen in Britain? Birmingham 6 anyone? Or how about the Guildford 4?

The British press got frustrated with the secrecy laws the Portugese police have to adhere to and went for the jugular(ie made up stuff).There has been leaks to the Portugese media but tbh thats going to happen.Its important to remember they have not faced such a insatiable appetite from World media for news on this scale before.A guy who is an editor of a Portugese newspaper was on Newsnight believes administrators will reasses their policy
on Police/media affairs as a result of this case.The whole thing is so strange,
it beggars belief.I just hope the truth comes out.

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Originally Posted by jebus

Also does anyone else think it's a bit rich the British papers banging on about dirty foreigners trying to bring false charges against Brits just so they can say they caught someone for the crime committed, and going on about how that would never happen in Britain? Birmingham 6 anyone? Or how about the Gildford 4?

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typical British attitude as usual. "Johnny Foreigner is wrong and we are right". "We are sooooo superior to those foreigners..." etc. Unfortunately we (Ireland) are so guided by our neighbours that we swallow all their sh1te.

Ever hear how much some Irish people (usually those who are 'Lifelong Fans' of British teams) hate the 'Dirty Turks'??? :rolleyes:

To be fair I've noticed a distinct change in the Press's attitude and they seem to be more readily able to report on the case on a neutral basis than ever before. Not totally neutral but plenty of reporting on the change in public perception etc.